Harvey Barnes

[Aiston]

10 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Im not judging him differently. So far though there seems a glaring difference in impact between starting and being subbed on. Some players are just like that. I’m asking the question is Barnes one of them?

 

He's shown time and time again he is a deserved starter throughout his career.

[LFEE]

8 minutes ago, Aiston said:

 

He's shown time and time again he is a deserved starter throughout his career.

Yeah but when he’s  showing it is that after coming off the bench? 

[timnufc22]

2 hours ago, LFEE said:

Yeah but when he’s  showing it is that after coming off the bench? 

Perhaps let the lad have a long run in the side, without being the first one to be subbed all the time aswell, to find out? 

I can imagine any player finding it more difficult to get into a rhythm when you know you know you’re not trusted as much as others even though you’ve never had a proper run in the side.

 

He scored a superb goal vs Spurs and did as good as anyone else in general play yet was dropped the next game. It’s frustrating because I see don’t necessarily  see the the likes of Murphy & Gordon being judged on the same standards.

 

 

Edited October 6 by timnufc22

[Gallowgate Toon]

Doesn't he have 2 goals in his 4 starts this season? 

[TRon]

13 hours ago, nemtizz said:

 

Wild guess but if he doesn't cut inside and finesse it top bins he has zero impact.

 

 

He was trying to go outside yesterday, which is good otherwise he becomes too predictable. But he hasn't produced much when he's done it yet, all his impact stuff has been cutting inside.

[splinter]

We're better with Gordon on the left, sooner isak or Wilson are fit the better

[Sibierski]

Not sure what his long term future is if he can’t start after an international break where he has been with side training, and playing at home against a side where he would get joy.

 

Just play him and Gordon together, or go 3-5-2 and have the three of those two with Isak rotating as the striker options.

[jigen]

Good player. But too similar to Gordon. You have two physical LW, powerful and very direct but with little creativity.

What is the point to spend 40m for a clone of Gordon and then playing with Murphy on the right? 

[Holloway]

Is he bollocks a clone of Gordon, he is a superb finisher whilst Gordon is relatively weak in that department. Gordon regularly goes past his man, Barnes rarely does 

[andycap]

He's creative can pick a pass aswell. 

And is clinical in front of goal. 

Gordon isn't in form Barnes is. my worry is by benching Barnes when it's time to get games again his form may of gone. 

 

[Gallowgate Toon]

It is pretty bizarre at a time where we're looking impotent going forward that our sharpest shooter so far this season is getting benched.

[huss9]

they're both right footed.

play one on the right.

rotate during the games if you have to, depending on how its going

[Lush Vlad]

24 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

It is pretty bizarre at a time where we're looking impotent going forward that our sharpest shooter so far this season is getting benched.

Yep. I think that’s a negative against Howe. He seems reluctant to play what should be our best 3 and for various reasons. Seems to have decided that not shifting Gordon to the right and starting Murphy there is a better option. 

[Shadow Puppets]

Just so you know, Barnes picked up a very minor knock in training last week, hence him not starting today.

[Lush Vlad]

58 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

Just so you know, Barnes picked up a very minor knock in training last week, hence him not starting today.

Fair enough and good to know. He has certainly been reluctant to do so in the past, though. 
 

I get he is obviously trying to strike a balance and he sees Gordon as the starting LW. But when Barnes is too good to sit on the bench and when the other options for RW are players that should have been moved on. Or at best, kept as back ups. Then it is a bit ridiculous that he doesn’t start and Gordon moves over and/or they rotate. 
 

I don’t think he will suddenly start playing both of them left and right. Quite a large sample size now to say he is reluctant to do so. 

[TRon]

On 19/10/2024 at 20:23, huss9 said:

they're both right footed.

play one on the right.

rotate during the games if you have to, depending on how its going

 

Playing Barnes on the right effectively takes away another goal threat since just about every goal he's scored for us has been cutting in from the left. But Gordon also wants to do that, don't think he would take kindly to being moved to the right too often.

[Doctor Zaius]

Genuinely not sure why we signed him when we had just splashed out 40M on Gordon. Either they were writing Gordon off after his fairly poor start, trusted Murphy/Almiron to do a job longer term or assumed you'd be able to play one of Gordon or Barnes on the right. All of which are wrong. 

 

We have two quality left wingers, neither of which are effective on the right, vying for one position. While we have quite obvious weaknesses elsewhere. 

[HaydnNUFC]

9 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

Genuinely not sure why we signed him when we had just splashed out 40M on Gordon. Either they were writing Gordon off after his fairly poor start, trusted Murphy/Almiron to do a job longer term or assumed you'd be able to play one of Gordon or Barnes on the right. All of which are wrong. 

 

We have two quality left wingers, neither of which are effective on the right, vying for one position. While we have quite obvious weaknesses elsewhere. 

 

It's looking more and more like an opportunistic buy. He's a good finisher with good PL output and we had the chance to get him cheaper than usual due to Leicester going down rather than him being a piece of a jigsaw to a bigger picture. Hence Howe's present confusion of what do with him.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Even if that’s true though, it’s not exactly a damning or baffling error. It’s something we can disagree with but it’s not life or death. 

[HaydnNUFC]

15 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Even if that’s true though, it’s not exactly a damning or baffling error. It’s something we can disagree with but it’s not life or death. 

 

Its not an error per se, but baffling? I'd say it's looking like it is. Our right hand side is an absolute mess. Because of the lack of evolution in our tactical set up going forward we are still reliant on Trippier, who's 34 and has had the vice captaincy took off him, as we still look more balanced when he plays even now. Tino, as promising as he is, has a different game to Trippier; his game is not overlapping and sticking crosses in. It's his ball carrying and dribbling, and still I'd argue he's more of a defensive RB than an offensive one.

 

So when Tino plays, we have a defensive RB and two ineffective RWs, as we have neglected to improve that position for so long. Whilst we have an £80m outlay on two LWs, both of whom Howe can't get starting together and playing we'll together. 

 

Perhaps it's hindsight, but Mitchell is looking all the more spot on when he says there was little strategy in our signings. Summer 2023 is looking ever more a watershed to me.

 

 

Edited October 22 by HaydnNUFC

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Its not an error per se, but baffling? I'd say it's looking like it is. Our right hand side is an absolute mess. Because of the lack of evolution in our tactical set up going forward we are still reliant on Trippier, who's 34 and has had the vice captaincy took off him, as we still look more balanced when he plays even now. Tino, as promising as he is, has a different game to Trippier; his game is not overlapping and sticking crosses in. It's his ball carrying and dribbling, and still I'd argue he's more of a defensive RB than an offensive one.

 

So when Tino plays, we have a defensive RB and two ineffective RWs, as we have neglected to improve that position for so long. Whilst we have an £80m outlay on two LWs, both of whom Howe can't get starting together and playing we'll together. 

 

Perhaps it's hindsight, but Mitchell is looking all the more spot on when he says there was little strategy in our signings. Summer 2023 is looking ever more a watershed to me.

 

 

 

Completely agree about the summer 2023 window, I thought it was poor at the time (no lack of effort from the club mind) and it has looked worse has time as gone on.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I wouldn’t say it’s baffling, there are various reasons for signing Barnes. We were desperate for goals in the front line, we didn’t know Gordon would become the best LW in the country, probably others. 
 

Everything you say is right but I’m just saying the Barnes signing is understandable. 
 

RW seems like the priority position because we already filled the other ones and it’s the last outstanding weakness. 

 

 

Edited October 22 by AyeDubbleYoo

[HaydnNUFC]

2 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Completely agree about the summer 2023 window, I thought it was poor at the time (no lack of effort from the club mind) and it has looked worse has time as gone on.

 

Last summer was a disaster/failure, whatever way you want to put it, but summer 2023 has put question marks over the what the strategy was that window given our lack of tactical evolution following it. We signed good players but Howe hasn't found a way to best implement them yet, we've just put them into the system that got us 4th 2 seasons ago. Same again this season.

 

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I wouldn’t say it’s baffling, there are various reasons for signing Barnes. We were desperate for goals in the front line, we didn’t know Gordon would become the best LW in the country, probably others. 
 

Everything you say is right but I’m just saying the Barnes signing is understandable. 
 

RW seems like the priority position because we already filled the other ones and it’s the last outstanding weakness. 

 

 

RW has been a outstanding weakness for a while imo. We haven't signed a recognised one in 7(!) years. Could become 8 if we don't get one in January. Almiron's goalscoring run in October '22 he never looked likely to replicate, and the season prior to it most of which was under Howe he achieved 1 goal and 0 assists in 30 appearances. Benitez had sent Murphy out on loan 5 years ago due to being surplus to requirements.

 

Just looking like poor medium-long term squad planning and it's a big part of why we've looked unbalanced for a while.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Long term yeah, but since the takeover I think the decisions are understandable. Miggy and Wilson actually probably didn’t help us by playing so well just at the point they might’ve been booted. 
 

That said though, if we’d signed a RW instead of Gordon we’d now be saying how bad our left side is and wondering why we didn’t fix it. It’ll take time to have quality in every position. 

[HaydnNUFC]

7 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Long term yeah, but since the takeover I think the decisions are understandable. Miggy and Wilson actually probably didn’t help us by playing so well just at the point they might’ve been booted. 
 

That said though, if we’d signed a RW instead of Gordon we’d now be saying how bad our left side is and wondering why we didn’t fix it. It’ll take time to have quality in every position. 

 

Wilson's injury record has always been as it is since 2015, most of which under Howe himself. If they couldn't see that then, bliddy hell. With Almirón, again on naff squad planning, lack of ruthlessness/boldness etc, he shouldn't have been given a new contract in February 2023. We should've cashed in after that form he just wouldn't have replicated as his value would never have been higher and he was still under 30. Its that sort of outgoing we've deliberately seemed to avoid outside of selling Chris Wood. As I said in the Howe thread also, I'd have (the potentially unpopular opinion of) not renewing Joelinton's contract summer just gone and selling him for a younger, more designated DM.

 

I'm not suggesting us signing a RW instead of Gordon. It was putting the £40m we spent on Barnes on a RW and we'd likely have had a decent pool to pick from given we had the pull of CL football.

 

 

Edited October 22 by HaydnNUFC