Harvey Barnes

[Mazzy]

7 hours ago, mosstef said:

Surprised to see him get on the end of a few corners. He's got some leap on him.

 

I was shocked to see he's 5ft9. Then even more shocked to see Gordon is 6ft. Could've sworn both of them were the same height and I wouldn't have said it was 6ft.

[Unbelievable]

6 hours ago, elbee909 said:

Remember Saint-Maximin? No me neither

You might wanna see your MD about that mate. He’s not long gone and for years he was pretty much the only good thing we had going.

[Pancrate1892]

7 hours ago, Mazzy said:

 

I was shocked to see he's 5ft9. Then even more shocked to see Gordon is 6ft. Could've sworn both of them were the same height and I wouldn't have said it was 6ft.

I thought the same 

[Karjala]

9 hours ago, elbee909 said:

Remember Saint-Maximin? No me neither

Think his best season for us was 5G+5A. Gordon has smashed that already, and I'm pretty certain Barnes would have too if he'd not missed more than half the season.

[elbee909]

3 hours ago, Unbelievable said:

You might wanna see your MD about that mate. He’s not long gone and for years he was pretty much the only good thing we had going.

 

I think I've blanked out bruceball

[Geordie Ahmed]

Find it odd why some seem obsessed about ridiculing ASM

 

He was a shining light for us during a dark period, we sold him and have moved on

 

 

[Dr.Spaceman]

He would have also been really useful (had he stayed fit) through large parts of the season.

[Pancrate1892]

2 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

Find it odd why some seem obsessed about ridiculing ASM

 

He was a shining light for us during a dark period, we sold him and have moved on

 

 

I don't get it, he is what he is, and sometimes he could rip any defence to shreds. 

The start of last season the first 3 games he had a goal involvement in every goal, including giving us a 3-1 lead against mighty city, probably deemed his fault we didn't win the game too.

Probably the same stupid cunts who ripped into David ginola and we're glad we had hard working Gary brady or des Hamilton instead then couldn't understand when he tore us to pieces at white hart lane 

[Shearergol]

On ASM, I'm extremely glad he played for us. For the majority of the time he was the only player you could look forward to seeing.

 

Do I wish he was still here? Yes, if FFP wasn't a thing.

 

Do I prefer Barnes as a first option? Yes again, but ASM coming off the bench towards the end of games would be great to see.

 

Frustrating as fuck at times, and nowhere near fit for long enough, but I remember him fondly.

[Erikse]

  

On 05/07/2023 at 22:46, Pata said:

Last season Harvey Barnes had 0.40 non-penalty xG+xA per 90, ASM had 0.52. Grass is greener and that. 

 

  

On 05/07/2023 at 22:58, Pata said:

Based on this Barnes basically only scores goals. Obviously a valuable skill but I’m a bit concerned about his overall play. Assist stats seem massively misleading too, he has 25 assists in the PL but his xA is only 15 so he’s been passing to some impressive finishers.

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at all the xA posts from last summer is funny now. Turns out you can't judge players based on xA number, and that actual assists may be a more accurate parameter after all? @Pata wasn't the only one btw, I just picked some. The narrative was that his assist stats was lying, and that he's really just a finisher. From what I've seen of him, the actual assist numbers seem to line up better with reality than his xA.

[STM]

I won't be doing any silly Barnes/ASM comparisons. 

 

What matters to me is that Barnes is class. Let's look after him, give him rests when needed and he will get us 15 goals next year.

 

I was actually thinking about this today. If we keep the front 3 fit for 2/3 of the season, they will probably get north of 50 goals.

[80]

To be fair, ASM was being used as a stick to hit the Barnes signing with quite a lot this season after he got injured.

 

But I agree we don't need to dwell on it.

[Pata]

47 minutes ago, Erikse said:

  

 

  

 

Looking at all the xA posts from last summer is funny now. Turns out you can't judge players based on xA number, and that actual assists may be a more accurate parameter after all? @Pata wasn't the only one btw, I just picked some. The narrative was that his assist stats was lying, and that he's really just a finisher. From what I've seen of him, the actual assist numbers seem to line up better with reality than his xA.

 

I don't really get your logic at all, just plain dumb.  If you want to disregard five seasons worth of data with 537 minutes with us you can do that but I really don't see what's funny about that.

 

Oh look, his xA numbers have taken a massive jump this season too! It's a really small sample size but either his attributes fit Howe's system better, his role was different at Leicester or he links up really well with Isak and Gordon (or it's a really small sample size). I've definitely been positively surprised with his overall contributions and not just his finishing, hope he can keep it up. 0.95 non-penalty xG+xA per 90 would mean he's an absolute elite player statistically in this league. Isak is at 0.78 and Gordon at 0.58 just for reference.

 

[Pancrate1892]

1 hour ago, Shearergol said:

On ASM, I'm extremely glad he played for us. For the majority of the time he was the only player you could look forward to seeing.

 

Do I wish he was still here? Yes, if FFP wasn't a thing.

 

Do I prefer Barnes as a first option? Yes again, but ASM coming off the bench towards the end of games would be great to see.

 

Frustrating as fuck at times, and nowhere near fit for long enough, but I remember him fondly.

Well said

[Erikse]

10 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

I don't really get your logic at all, just plain dumb.  If you want to disregard five seasons worth of data with 537 minutes with us you can do that but I really don't see what's funny about that.

 

Oh look, his xA numbers have taken a massive jump this season too! It's a really small sample size but either his attributes fit Howe's system better, his role was different at Leicester or he links up really well with Isak and Gordon (or it's a really small sample size). I've definitely been positively surprised with his overall contributions and not just his finishing, hope he can keep it up. 0.95 non-penalty xG+xA per 90 would mean he's an absolute elite player statistically in this league. Isak is at 0.78 and Gordon at 0.58 just for reference.

 

 

It says "Based on this Barnes basically only scores goals." Are you still under this impression? All he does is score goals?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

TBF to ASM he could have had a lot more assists if anyone around him could finish. 

[Pata]

2 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

It says "Based on this Barnes basically only scores goals." Are you still under this impression? All he does is score goals?

 

Based on the 10000 league minutes he played at Leicester, yes. His xA numbers were not that different to Almiron. As I said, I don't know what has happened this season but it's a massive outlier to his previous career.

 

 

Edited April 16 by Pata

[Erikse]

5 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Based on the 10000 league minutes he played at Leicester, yes. His xA numbers were not that different to Almiron. As I said, I don't what has happened this season but it's a massive outlier to his previous career.

 

People tried to tell you that his general play is better than you made it out to be (based on stats). And then, despite playing just a few games with his new team mates, he is showing just that. But I suppose that's just a coincidence. Maybe his long term injury magically transformed him?

 

 

Edited April 16 by Erikse

[sushimonster85]

I imagine his xA numbers spiking (in a small sample size) this season isn't a fluke. I think it's part of his game Howe & his team will be working on. He could have had a couple of assists on Saturday had things turned out differently. 

[Erikse]

1 minute ago, sushimonster85 said:

I imagine his xA numbers spiking (in a small sample size) this season isn't a fluke. I think it's part of his game Howe & his team will be working on. He could have had a couple of assists on Saturday had things turned out differently. 

 

For how many months has he actually been training with us?

[Pata]

4 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

People tried to tell you that his general play is better than you made it out to be (based on stats). And then, despite playing just a few games with his new team mates, he is showing just that. But I suppose that's just a coincidence.

 

Please do explain why his xA numbers are 4-5x better than they were at Leicester during five seasons if his general play has always been so good.

 

 

Edited April 16 by Pata

[The College Dropout]

I'm with Pata on this one.

 

There was substantial data on his expected assists over many seasons.  It's fair enough to base on opinion on that. This small sample can't be compared to that. If he can maintain it, it will mean he has improved substantially as a player and/or that the system has allowed him to flourish.

 

The sample data is too small to draw any conclusions atm. Most of his minutes have been off the bench when the game is more open too.

[PRL]

Sadly we all knew with Almiron there would be a reversion to mean from October 2022 and it’s likely the same with this data on Barnes. It’s the nature of football that players go through streaks and I think claiming all prior data on Barnes is null and void after the stop start and limited season he’s had here is set up to disappoint. 

[ponsaelius]

Surely something like xA can be massively down to how a player is being used in a team.

[PRL]

7 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Surely something like xA can be massively down to how a player is being used in a team.

Agree with this, but I’ve not seen that Barnes is being used much differently than us than with Leicester. It can also be a lot to do with the players around him and the quality of them. Which ironically takes us back to ASM and the dross he had around him when with us. Not just the poor finishing, but the movement and the ability of those around him likely made it harder to register xA, not just actual assists