Newcastle United 5-1 Aston Villa - 12/08/23

[Kid Icarus]

Aside from when they made it 1-1 and a little period of possession at 2-1 where everything seemed to drop to them, they really offered nothing tbh. It does make it sound like we have a chip on our shoulders, but there's always something to discredit the actual result. When we smashed Spurs it was good, but Spurs were terrible. We beat Brentford 5-1, but it was a freak result. We beat Villa 4-0, but they were inbetween managers. We beat West Ham 5-1, but West Ham were shocking. Now we've beaten Villa 5-1. But it wasn't a 5-1 match, Villa were actually good. 

 

It's just tiresome really. Like someone mentioned, if other teams like Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool put teams to the sword like that, the pundits and fans would be in unanimous agreement over how brilliant and ruthless they were. 

[Lotus]

Rewatching it and Villa were decent in the 2nd half until our 3rd goal. 
Their midfield used the ball well but they had a complete lack of intensity and desire when out of possession. They let us run through them at ease or applied no pressure so we could get our heads up and play the direct ball over the top. They were very susceptible to that. 
Couldn’t believe Kamara wasn’t booked for persistent fouling.  Took Cash about 6 fouls before he was booked. I just honestly don’t believe we’d have got the same grace.

3 things stood out for me from our perspective. Miggy defended very narrow which gave Digne complete freedom of the wing. Must have been planned as it was never corrected. Maybe Howe just didn’t believe Digne would do anything with it but he did ping in some decent crosses tbf.

Burn cannot defend 1v1. Always needs a teammate to keep him out of trouble. Love the bloke but that really needs sorting out.

Schar was great. Seemed a quiet match but so many nice interceptions. Sometimes right at the last beat but he never seemed rushed or stretched. Super smooth. If we upgrade on him it’ll be some player…..

[Yorkie]

Bringing Tielemans on to try and get one up in the midfield battle and things just going from bad to worse was a sight to behold. When our trio are all on song we'll be a match for just about anyone. 

[madras]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Their tactical changes made them worse as well. Of course Torres was enforced but moving Diaby inside and bringing on Tielemans was disastrous. They just didn't have any solutions for what we were doing. 

Think Ive said on here but I was surprised Carlos didn't come on for Mings. I know Torres is left footed but Carlos is closer to Mings in cambativeness etc.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Like I said before the season, I'm not convinced Villa's signings have improved them that much. Diaby looked dangerous for a while but is unproven. Pau Torres is 'good' and Tielemans so often looks overwhelmed by the pace of the game. 

[Lotus]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Like I said before the season, I'm not convinced Villa's signings have improved them that much. Diaby looked dangerous for a while but is unproven. Pau Torres is 'good' and Tielemans so often looks overwhelmed by the pace of the game. 

Maybe they’re just lacking fitness and sharpness from a less than optimal pre season. They were very open.

[madras]

Quite telling that on the Villa message boards, they overwhelmingly say we battered them.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, madras said:

Quite telling that on the Villa message boards, they overwhelmingly say we battered them.

 

They are correct. 

[Lotus]

Just now, madras said:

Quite telling that on the Villa message boards, they overwhelmingly say we battered them.

They were both better and worse than the score line suggests ?

[Nobody]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Aside from when they made it 1-1 and a little period of possession at 2-1 where everything seemed to drop to them, they really offered nothing tbh. It does make it sound like we have a chip on our shoulders, but there's always something to discredit the actual result. When we smashed Spurs it was good, but Spurs were terrible. We beat Brentford 5-1, but it was a freak result. We beat Villa 4-0, but they were inbetween managers. We beat West Ham 5-1, but West Ham were shocking. Now we've beaten Villa 5-1. But it wasn't a 5-1 match, Villa were actually good. 

 

It's just tiresome really. Like someone mentioned, if other teams like Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool put teams to the sword like that, the pundits and fans would be in unanimous agreement over how brilliant and ruthless they were. 

Only one team has scored 4+ goals more times than us since the start of last season. It's so weird that we score that every time we do it it's a complete fluke. Guess we've got a fair amount of luck to make up for the 15 years of Ashley. 

[Yorkie]

Aye, I mean it's right there in the scoreline.  We also had a Joelinton header cleared off the line, Wilson being denied at point blank range, Isak and Tonali both squandering one-on-ones, and Miggy shanking a pass for an Isak tap-in. If anything we should be concerned it wasn't a greater margin of victory.

[joeyt]

7 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Aside from when they made it 1-1 and a little period of possession at 2-1 where everything seemed to drop to them, they really offered nothing tbh. It does make it sound like we have a chip on our shoulders, but there's always something to discredit the actual result. When we smashed Spurs it was good, but Spurs were terrible. We beat Brentford 5-1, but it was a freak result. We beat Villa 4-0, but they were inbetween managers. We beat West Ham 5-1, but West Ham were shocking. Now we've beaten Villa 5-1. But it wasn't a 5-1 match, Villa were actually good. 

 

It's just tiresome really. Like someone mentioned, if other teams like Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool put teams to the sword like that, the pundits and fans would be in unanimous agreement over how brilliant and ruthless they were. 

 

Remember the days when we'd regularly get beaten by 3,4,5 goals by those type of teams under Pardew and Bruce. 

 

Amazing what a well coached team can do

[Lotus]

14 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Aye, I mean it's right there in the scoreline.  We also had a Joelinton header cleared off the line, Wilson being denied at point blank range, Isak and Tonali both squandering one-on-ones, and Miggy shanking a pass for an Isak tap-in. If anything we should be concerned it wasn't a greater margin of victory.

From Villa’s perspective of course the Cash miss. I think for Watkins, Schar applies enough physical pressure that he doesn’t get the connection he wants so I’ll put that down to good defending. Watkins did literally sit Botman down in the 2nd half. Maybe should’ve done better for the effort on goal. They had a couple of headed opportunities too. Not as close as JL’s header but they did beat us to the ball.

[Gallowgate Toon]

They had 2 nice possession moves, one for the goal and one when Diaby slipped in and fired into the side netting. Everything else they created were cheap turnovers and straight counters iirc. I was honestly pretty disappointed with them - they could've been 2 down within 10 minutes 

[The College Dropout]

35 minutes ago, Manxst said:

 

He went off in the first half though. So was it one way traffic after the injury, or an even game til the last 20? ?‍♂️

Sorry you’re right. 
 

I think the first half was close but we edged it. We score 2 great goals and I think Watkins misses a decent opportunity. Gordon has Cash number.  Our press is largely effective. But Villa are able to get at our back line. 
 

Second half Tonali begins to swagger. But Villa still look a threat and not out of the game. The defence looks susceptible at this point but truthfully so does ours (to a lesser degree). Some players are a bit sloppy especially in transition.  
 

After the 3rd we gradually become sharper and harder counter punchers as Villa chase. Isak has a good chance to score a hat trick and Villa miss a sitter. I think Cash moves into midfield at this point and gets the better of Burn a few times and looks a threat.  Our subs come on and kill the game flat. 
 

It’s when the subs come that we really run away with it. The second half we are undoubtedly better but Villa still look a threat. Which is why I don’t get Ferguson’s comments. Villa looked dangerous and good in spots but never dominated any phase of the game.  The only domination came from us at the back end of the game. 
 

If I’m a Villa fan there’s positives to take. Villa look like scoring a lot of goals - 2 lads upfront will bang. Coutinho looked good when he came on. The Mings injury is a big concern and I would wonder why Emery didn’t close up shop at 4-1. Protect your fighter and throw in the towel. Took a needless battering at the end there to the GD.  
 

Oh and Cash was bad defensively. Question why Young was released and not replaced. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by The College Dropout

[Gazzaschicken]

25 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Like I said before the season, I'm not convinced Villa's signings have improved them that much. Diaby looked dangerous for a while but is unproven. Pau Torres is 'good' and Tielemans so often looks overwhelmed by the pace of the game. 

On paper they are great signings but this is the difference between what we are doing and other clubs are doing. We aren't signing players just because they are good, we are signing players to fit how we play and the managers style and intensity. We are doing what city are doing basically. We aren't playing FIFA which is what other sides are doing.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Gazzaschicken said:

On paper they are great signings but this is the difference between what we are doing and other clubs are doing. We aren't signing players just because they are good, we are signing players to fit how we play and the managers style and intensity. We are doing what city are doing basically. We aren't playing FIFA which is what other sides are doing.

 

I think Diaby is potentially great, Torres is decent and Tielemans is a mistake. 

 

Early days though, of course, and pretty much the most difficult test they'll face this season.

[Manxst]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Sorry you’re right. 
 

I think the first half was close but we edged it. We score 2 great goals and I think Watkins misses a decent opportunity. Gordon has Cash number.  Our press is largely effective. But Villa are able to get at our back line. 
 

Second half Tonali begins to swagger. But Villa still look a threat and not out of the game. The defence looks susceptible at this point but truthfully so does ours (to a lesser degree). Some players are a bit sloppy especially in transition.  
 

After the 3rd we gradually become sharper and harder counter punchers as Villa chase. Isak has a good chance to score a hat trick and Villa miss a sitter. I think Cash moves into midfield at this point and gets the better of Burn a few times and looks a threat.  Our subs come on and kill the game flat. 
 

It’s when the subs come that we really run away with it. The second half we are undoubtedly better but Villa still look a threat. Which is why I don’t get Ferguson’s comments. Villa looked dangerous and good in spots but never dominated any phase of the game.  The only domination came from us at the back end of the game. 
 

If I’m a Villa fan there’s positives to take. Villa look like scoring a lot of goals - 2 lads upfront will bang. Coutinho looked good when he came on. The Mings injury is a big concern and I would wonder why Emery didn’t close up shop at 4-1. Protect your fighter and throw in the towel. Took a needless battering at the end there to the GD.  
 

Oh and Cash was bad defensively. Question why Young was released and not replaced. 

 

 

 

Cool. I couldn’t get a ticket to the game so it’s interesting to hear what went on- obviously the majority say we smashed Villa and should’ve had more goals, so thanks for clarifying ?

[The College Dropout]

33 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Rewatching it and Villa were decent in the 2nd half until our 3rd goal. 
Their midfield used the ball well but they had a complete lack of intensity and desire when out of possession. They let us run through them at ease or applied no pressure so we could get our heads up and play the direct ball over the top. They were very susceptible to that. 
Couldn’t believe Kamara wasn’t booked for persistent fouling.  Took Cash about 6 fouls before he was booked. I just honestly don’t believe we’d have got the same grace.

3 things stood out for me from our perspective. Miggy defended very narrow which gave Digne complete freedom of the wing. Must have been planned as it was never corrected. Maybe Howe just didn’t believe Digne would do anything with it but he did ping in some decent crosses tbf.

Burn cannot defend 1v1. Always needs a teammate to keep him out of trouble. Love the bloke but that really needs sorting out.

Schar was great. Seemed a quiet match but so many nice interceptions. Sometimes right at the last beat but he never seemed rushed or stretched. Super smooth. If we upgrade on him it’ll be some player…..

Agreed.  
 

For our tactics to work our CBs need to be super aggressive.  Challenge for an opposition ball in the middle third of the pitch - sometimes pretty close to the final third. Schar is great at that. 
 

Agree 1v1 Burn is so bad and always needs help. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

As a sidenote, I know Brummie has raved about him before but I just don't see it with Kamara as a midfielder. He's decent & tidy but just doesn't stand out when I watch him. Feels like he'd have been great ~5/10 years ago in the world of pure defensive mids.

[r0cafella]

Just now, Gallowgate Toon said:

As a sidenote, I know Brummie has raved about him before but I just don't see it with Kamara as a midfielder. He's decent & tidy but just doesn't stand out when I watch him. Feels like he'd have been great ~5/10 years ago in the world of pure defensive mids.

I think he’s quality and one we should have picked up. That being said I was shocked by how much Villa lacked mobility in the Center of the park. On the face of it, Kamara McGinn and Luiz are all rather one paced, you throw in Tielmans and it’s all a bit samey. 

[Lotus]

Also, fwiw, Bruno is my favourite player but he did in fact have a mediocre game. Lacked sharpness with the ball. I'm not worried. In fact, I'm relieved we can score 5, could've been 8 with him not having a great influence.

 

For the Watkins steal, I just think someone should've given him the 'man on' call. Was about the only time a Villa forward player bothered their arse to do something defensively...

[54]

It was a really odd game in general in some respects, we deservedly won, and as we where the better team overall, but Villa had their chances which could have swung the game either way (Watkins miss immediately after the Mings injury, Cash missing an open goal in the second half etc), but at the same time we could and maybe should have scored 7/8. 

 

The First half was odd, as it was really frantic for the first 20 minutes or so, it was end to end and both teams where playing at 70mph, but as soon as Mings got injured the game got really flat and not a whole lot happened, you could argue in that time Villa "had the better of things" but they didn't really do anything with it, and we where comfy defensively. 

 

Second half we just asserted ourselves, and where on top throughout, due to the tactical changes made by Emery backfiring, us being more mentally switched on, and our superior fitness showing. 

 

We were deserved winners though, and there is no arguing that fact.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by 54

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, Manxst said:

Cool. I couldn’t get a ticket to the game so it’s interesting to hear what went on- obviously the majority say we smashed Villa and should’ve had more goals, so thanks for clarifying ?

Yeh we ended up smashing them as the score line suggests. 
 

If it was a boxing match you would say it was pretty competitive for 7 or 8 rounds with 1 man having the upper hand. But thr last few rounds were a bartering and the other man absorbed a lot of hard blows and knockdowns ending in a devastating knockout. But it wasn’t one of them KOs where one team is completely blown out from the start and there’s never any jeopardy in the result. 

[Lotus]

3 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

As a sidenote, I know Brummie has raved about him before but I just don't see it with Kamara as a midfielder. He's decent & tidy but just doesn't stand out when I watch him. Feels like he'd have been great ~5/10 years ago in the world of pure defensive mids.

His lack or urgency when they didn't have the ball was at times astonishing to me. But I've conditioned by Eddie to expect, at the very least, effort. You can be off the boil but the least you can do is run around with intensity and purpose.