England's Lewis Hall

[TheBrownBottle]

If it’s a summer transfer then FFP this season doesn’t come into it

[Menace]

This whole saga is so boring man

 

I wish a statement would just come out if we're signing him or not so all the inspector gadget work would come to a halt

[Beth]

It's not rocket science really is it. We obviously don't fancy him and are looking to avoid having to sign him permanently in the summer.

 

If we were obliged to buy him regardless he would have played a lot more minutes than he has so far.

[McDog]

1 minute ago, Beth said:

It's not rocket science really is it. We obviously don't fancy him and are looking to avoid having to sign him permanently in the summer.

 

If we were obliged to buy him regardless he would have played a lot more minutes than he has so far.

 

 

That's what it appears to be, at least to me.

[TheBrownBottle]

40 minutes ago, Beth said:

It's not rocket science really is it. We obviously don't fancy him and are looking to avoid having to sign him permanently in the summer.

 

If we were obliged to buy him regardless he would have played a lot more minutes than he has so far.

Not being funny, but if that is the case then what’s happening is potentially harmful to his career - they should have been discussing cancelling the loan

[Beth]

8 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Not being funny, but if that is the case then what’s happening is potentially harmful to his career - they should have been discussing cancelling the loan

I agree, but it would be rather embarrassing for all concerned if we did that.

[The Prophet]

54 minutes ago, Beth said:

It's not rocket science really is it. We obviously don't fancy him and are looking to avoid having to sign him permanently in the summer.

 

If we were obliged to buy him regardless he would have played a lot more minutes than he has so far.

 

There's numerous reports kicking about stating the obligation isn't appearance related.

[Hanshithispantz]

An 18 year old hasn't immediately walked into the club and started lifting up trees so obviously he's shite, a cunt, and needs shipping back to London ASAP.

 

If that kid we've signed from Man City hasn't scored 5 goals by the summer we've completely wasted our money. The club is ran by wankers.

[Beth]

23 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

An 18 year old hasn't immediately walked into the club and started lifting up trees so obviously he's shite, a cunt, and needs shipping back to London ASAP.

 

If that kid we've signed from Man City hasn't scored 5 goals by the summer we've completely wasted our money. The club is ran by wankers.

Well we'll find out one way or another come the summer.

[Chris_R]

Part of me is wondering if, like Matt Targett, he's suffering from just not being Dan Burn.

 

Howe seems to consider Burn utterly integral to everything we do, and I get that to an extent because he does have some unique attributes that other fullbacks just don't have. But he along with that he holds us back in some ways - His positives are also his negatives. But he seems undroppable and of course that's Howe's call, but as with Targett last year many of us are wondering if things would be better with a more conventional, attacking fullback.

[r0cafella]

38 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

An 18 year old hasn't immediately walked into the club and started lifting up trees so obviously he's shite, a cunt, and needs shipping back to London ASAP.

 

If that kid we've signed from Man City hasn't scored 5 goals by the summer we've completely wasted our money. The club is ran by wankers.

I get your point but it’s a daft comparison, the lad from city isn’t going to cost us 30m, the levels of expectations are different. 
 

Given the clubs valuation of Hall it does appear something is a miss given he can’t get a kick when we have 11 senior players out. 

[Hanshithispantz]

6 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

I get your point but it’s a daft comparison, the lad from city isn’t going to cost us 30m, the levels of expectations are different. 
 

Given the clubs valuation of Hall it does appear something is a miss given he can’t get a kick when we have 11 senior players out. 

How is the fee relevant, people (me included) wrongfully assumed we'd signed Hall to replace Burn and Targett this season, it's pretty clear now that Burn was always going to be first choice, and Hall was always signed for the future

 

 

Edited January 28 by Hanshithispantz

[r0cafella]

39 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

How is the fee relevant, people (me included) wrongfully assumed we'd signed Hall to replace Burn and Targett this season, it's pretty clear now that Burn was always going to be first choice, and Hall was always signed for the future

 

 

 

How is the fee relevant? Doesn’t it dictate the expectations of the player? I mean I don’t have the same expectations of this kid from city as I did Hall. 
 

I wasn’t sure how we’d line up this season but I did expect Hall to contribute more than what he has. I don’t think you obligate yourself to 30m spend without first team expectations tbh, and if that’s what we’ve done we’ve made an error. 
 

we can’t cry about FFP and buy players for such sums with no expectation of contributing to the first team. 

[Mazzy]

With Joelinton out the team and also Pope to some extent, Burn kind of is essential. Especially as Schar is fairly weak in the air. Burn and Botman do everything when we defend set peices.

 

 

[Ketsbaia]

There's been times when Howe would rather make no sub and let his XI run themselves into the ground than bring on Hall.

 

When Bruno gets his inevitable two-match suspension and we're low on midfielders, Howe will still find a way to not use Hall.

[Beth]

34 minutes ago, Ketsbaia said:

There's been times when Howe would rather make no sub and let his XI run themselves into the ground than bring on Hall.

 

When Bruno gets his inevitable two-match suspension and we're low on midfielders, Howe will still find a way to not use Hall.

Can't wait for the Longstaff/Hayden/Miley trio, with Ritchie to come off the bench.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

How is the fee relevant, people (me included) wrongfully assumed we'd signed Hall to replace Burn and Targett this season, it's pretty clear now that Burn was always going to be first choice, and Hall was always signed for the future

 

 

 

The fee is relevant if your budget is limited.  You can’t conduct a transfer strategy if you think transfer fees have no relevance to what you’re doing.  You mentioned the ‘Man City kid’.  He’s not got a £30m fee attached. We’re not in a position yet to pay £30m for players who might one day be good enough. 

 

And no-one slagged the kid off, no-one has said he’s shite.  Strawman stuff to suggest that anyone did.  It’s a reasonable question to ask if a player isn’t playing under the current circumstances then when exactly does he play?

 

 

Edited January 28 by TheBrownBottle

[toontownman]

I can understand the limited LB minutes and using Burn. We have needed his experience. We also know Howe likes being careful with new talent, especially given his age. He clearly has ability though and is so young still.

 

It's the proper refusing to play him when we need subs that makes everything point to the appearances and make it more confusing. Maybe the structure of the payments changes with appearances rather than the obligation. A certain amount of appearances might mean we are obligated to give Chelsea a wedge more than we want this year? ?‍♂️

[Mazzy]

6 minutes ago, toontownman said:

I can understand the limited LB minutes and using Burn. We have needed his experience. We also know Howe likes being careful with new talent, especially given his age. He clearly has ability though and is so young still.

 

It's the proper refusing to play him when we need subs that makes everything point to the appearances and make it more confusing. Maybe the structure of the payments changes with appearances rather than the obligation. A certain amount of appearances might mean we are obligated to give Chelsea a wedge more than we want this year? ?‍♂️

 

That last but is a good point actually. Although I imagine if Howe really thought giving Hall an extra 3/4 appearances would've helped us he'd have done it. It's certainly possible  though that we'll have the option to buy him in the summer no matter what, BUT for a slightly higher fee if he's made X amount of appearances. 

[ATB]

3 hours ago, Beth said:

Can't wait for the Longstaff/Hayden/Miley trio, with Ritchie to come off the bench.

Howe doesnt do subs. 

[Hanshithispantz]

4 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The fee is relevant if your budget is limited.  You can’t conduct a transfer strategy if you think transfer fees have no relevance to what you’re doing.  You mentioned the ‘Man City kid’.  He’s not got a £30m fee attached. We’re not in a position yet to pay £30m for players who might one day be good enough. 

 

And no-one slagged the kid off, no-one has said he’s shite.  Strawman stuff to suggest that anyone did.  It’s a reasonable question to ask if a player isn’t playing under the current circumstances then when exactly does he play?

 

 

 

Strawmanning? Howay man, it's the same aggressively negative stuff all the time. 

 

Everytime Hall doesn't step on the pitch 'questions need to be answered'. Saying we're not in a position to spend £30m on future talent is speculation.

 

Like I say, people got hung up on replacing Burn with a tachnical left back this season, but in hindsight that was never the plan.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Hanshithispantz

[Cronky]

Clearly, Eddie has more faith in Livramento than Hall, even when it comes to the left back position. Livramento makes mistakes with his positioning but is a good athlete and often recovers. That may be the difference, at the moment, between the two players.

 

But I also wonder whether Hall would do better if played further forward into the midfield. I think he himself has said that he ultimately sees himself as a midfielder. His chief assets seem to be his touch on the ball and his passing, so it does make some kind of sense. 

 

I have the nagging feeling that this lad is going to come good at some stage in his career, but it may not be with us.

[Hanshithispantz]

5 hours ago, r0cafella said:

How is the fee relevant? Doesn’t it dictate the expectations of the player? I mean I don’t have the same expectations of this kid from city as I did Hall. 
 

I wasn’t sure how we’d line up this season but I did expect Hall to contribute more than what he has. I don’t think you obligate yourself to 30m spend without first team expectations tbh, and if that’s what we’ve done we’ve made an error. 
 

we can’t cry about FFP and buy players for such sums with no expectation of contributing to the first team. 

I'm not crying about FFP personally. 

[Lush Vlad]

16 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Strawmanning? Howay man, it's the same aggressively negative stuff all the time. 

 

Everytime Hall doesn't step on the pitch 'questions need to be answered'. Saying we're not in a position to spend £30m on future talent is speculation.

 

Like I say, people got hung up on replacing Burn with a tachnical left back this season, but in hindsight that was never the plan.

 

 

 

 

 

The bottom bit has some truth in it. I don’t think people thought he’d be straight into the first XI. But would at least be challenging Burn and Targett, whilst providing some cover for the midfield and wing positions. 
 

Yet he can’t get a game or any meaningful minutes. All whilst we have had arguably our worst injury crisis in Premier League history. 
 

You don’t think that is a worry (N-O™️) at all?

 

The fee is relevant if we really are hamstrung by FFP. A lot to be laying out for a player who seems nowhere near the first team or even rated by Howe at this point. 
 

We have hit on most of our transfers. So it’s not a disaster. But this looks like a terrible deal at the minute. For him and us. 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Lush Vlad

[Kid Icarus]

I just don't get why no one learns to keep their mouth shut until they know more.

 

It's like people questioning the Gordon signing and then him being brilliant the following season never happened. Some players play how Howe wants them to out of the box, others need assembly.

 

You don't play until you're trusted defensively, Gordon hinted to that himself, and Burn is trusted hugely, to the extent of him playing ahead of Livramento.

 

Have some patience.