England's Lewis Hall

[SteV]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Same as above. If we were planning on keeping him, I just think we'd have used him a lot more. There's no way he is so bad that it makes more sense to run players to a standstill rather than bring him on to freshen things up during a phase when we are ravaged by injuries to begin with.

If we genuinely didn’t want him based on what’s been seen in training (or whatever) then I think Howe would have sent him back or not given him any minutes at all.

[timeEd32]

Isn't there some new language in the rules that means you can't use a loan to buy method to push out the transfer fee if the clause is too easy to achieve? Basically you can't take the piss with something like "becomes permanent upon one appearance."

 

A clause based solely on a team that finished 4th the previous season not getting relegated seems like it'd be taking the piss.

[SteV]

Just now, timeEd32 said:

Isn't there some new language in the rules that means you can't use a loan to buy method to push out the transfer fee if the clause is too easy to achieve? Basically you can't take the piss with something like "becomes permanent upon one appearance."

 

A clause based solely on a team that finished 4th the previous season not getting relegated seems like it'd be taking the piss.

There is, but where that line is….

 

 

[Menace]

23 minutes ago, JonBez comesock said:

I saw enough in the Manchester a United game to think he will be a very good player 

 

Wether that’s here or somewhere else 

 

Hope it’s here , as i really rate him 

This is how I feel - he's actually not been bad at all for us when he has played. Weird situation.

[wormy]

29 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don't think he meant that. He was trying to say "yes every transfer has to be right because of FFP.. but it's also not possible". But he didn't commit on the obligation but said earlier Hall was getting closer to activating it. 

 

 

Regardless of what he says, Eddie doesn't think he's ready at a minimum.

 

 

25:25

 

 

What was the question after about being classed as an academy player and not counting toward FFP? Did I hear that right?

 

Surely that sounds too easy a loophole that you could blow a wad on a young player, initially assign him to the academy and it not count against FFP? If that's the case I assume they'd instantly count toward FFP as soon as you used them in a senior capacity, rendering it pointless anyway?

[Gawalls]

34 minutes ago, rebelrouser said:

And basically only playing Dan Burn. Frustrating wondering what the rest could possibly do with playing time. 

Everybody but Howe wonders that I think 

[timeEd32]

11 minutes ago, wormy said:

 

What was the question after about being classed as an academy player and not counting toward FFP? Did I hear that right?

 

Surely that sounds too easy a loophole that you could blow a wad on a young player, initially assign him to the academy and it not count against FFP? If that's the case I assume they'd instantly count toward FFP as soon as you used them in a senior capacity, rendering it pointless anyway?

 

I've been wondering this. Less so about Hall, but someone like Harrison. Does his fee count against our spend? Or is it excluded because he's an academy player? And, if that's the case, does that also mean we can actually add it to our academy costs and use his fee to increase what we're able to deduct from PSR calculations?

[wormy]

19 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

I've been wondering this. Less so about Hall, but someone like Harrison. Does his fee count against our spend? Or is it excluded because he's an academy player? And, if that's the case, does that also mean we can actually add it to our academy costs and use his fee to increase what we're able to deduct from PSR calculations?

 

A few years ago now and EFL-related but a Google found this which seemed to be part of a conversation around signing Mújica at Leeds:

 

Maybe revolves around clubs evidencing that they think a player still needs literal youth development and isn't ready for the first team?

 

Better actually get back to work so this will probably take over my evening when I finish until I remember I'm too dumb to understand all this bullshit.

[timeEd32]

6 minutes ago, wormy said:

 

A few years ago now and EFL-related but a Google found this which seemed to be part of a conversation around signing Mújica at Leeds:

 

Maybe revolves around clubs evidencing that they think a player still needs literal youth development and isn't ready for the first team?

 

Better actually get back to work so this will probably take over my evening when I finish until I remember I'm too dumb to understand all this bullshit.

 

The more I dig into the nuances of all FFP related things, the CL expansion and the implications of it, etc. the more annoyed I get at football journalists. There's an opportunity to answer some legitimate questions, shed light on things, almost certainly find gaps and loopholes in the systems, and yet 80% of them would prefer to write fantastical transfer stories and The Athletic is just waxing poetic about how the sky is now a bit bluer at Benton because the parking lot's been resurfaced.

[Gawalls]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

 

The more I dig into the nuances of all FFP related things, the CL expansion and the implications of it, etc. the more annoyed I get at football journalists. There's an opportunity to answer some legitimate questions, shed light on things, almost certainly find gaps and loopholes in the systems, and yet 80% of them would prefer to write fantastical transfer stories and The Athletic is just waxing poetic about how the sky is now a bit bluer at Benton because the parking lot's been resurfaced.

Has it? What type of tarmac have they used?

[80]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye he's clearly fallen out of favour. He was hooked at HT in that game iirc. Might have started the next game too and also got hooked at HT.

 

Do you know how bad you have to be to be subbed at HT by Howe? Twice?

 

Since then he's only got proper minutes once we've proper been battered and the game is gone. Rarely comes on when a game is tightly contested. Zero trust.

Yep. The weird thing is I didn't think he was that bad in those games. Certainly nothing to be excoriated for.

2 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Same as above. If we were planning on keeping him, I just think we'd have used him a lot more. There's no way he is so bad that it makes more sense to run players to a standstill rather than bring him on to freshen things up during a phase when we are ravaged by injuries to begin with.

If it were true that we are fully expecting to (have to) keep him, how would it change your opinion of how he's been used by Howe?

[The College Dropout]

25 minutes ago, 80 said:

Yep. The weird thing is I didn't think he was that bad in those games. Certainly nothing to be excoriated for.

If it were true that we are fully expecting to (have to) keep him, how would it change your opinion of how he's been used by Howe?

I thought he struggled at Dortmund. But no worse than a half-a-dozen Dan Burn first-halves I can name off memory.

 

Even in the Brighton game. It was Targett who got the sub and subsequent axe. It takes chasing a game for that Dan Burn sub.

[80]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I thought he struggled at Dortmund. But no worse than a half-a-dozen Dan Burn first-halves I can name off memory.

 

Even in the Brighton game. It was Targett who got the sub and subsequent axe. It takes chasing a game for that Dan Burn sub.

Yeah. My most explicit memory was of the referee in the Dortmund game hobbling him early on with an unfair yellow card following him impressively winning a contested ball. I can't say I studied his positioning on a second by second basis as Eddie hopefully later did.

 

For obvious reasons, though, I accept him struggling in games - I wouldn't ask for perfection at this stage in his career. But getting bombed out at half time seemed way OTT in the circumstances we were facing. As I recall we initially put Trippier there before quickly realising it was a disaster and moving Tino over to give him his first game as a left back in that second half.

 

At the time I understood the Hall decision, thinking Howe was protecting him from pressure and maybe a red card, but I didn't think it would be one of the last times I saw him play.

 

On a side note - wrong thread for it really - Eddie made it about as explicit as possible without saying it in today's press conference that he takes issue with Livramento's performances in training and that's a major factor in him not making the team ahead of Burn.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, 80 said:

Yeah. My most explicit memory was of the referee in the Dortmund game hobbling him early on with an unfair yellow card following him impressively winning a contested ball. I can't say I studied his positioning on a second by second basis as Eddie hopefully later did.

 

For obvious reasons, though, I accept him struggling in games - I wouldn't ask for perfection at this stage in his career. But getting bombed out at half time seemed way OTT in the circumstances we were facing. As I recall we initially put Trippier there before quickly realising it was a disaster and moving Tino over to give him his first game as a left back in that second half.

 

At the time I understood the Hall decision, thinking Howe was protecting him from pressure and maybe a red card, but I didn't think it would be one of the last times I saw him play.

 

On a side note - wrong thread for it really - Eddie made it about as explicit as possible without saying it in today's press conference that he takes issue with Livramento's performances in training and that's a major factor in him not making the team ahead of Burn.

 

What's this?

[SteV]

6 minutes ago, 80 said:

Yeah. My most explicit memory was of the referee in the Dortmund game hobbling him early on with an unfair yellow card following him impressively winning a contested ball. I can't say I studied his positioning on a second by second basis as Eddie hopefully later did.

 

For obvious reasons, though, I accept him struggling in games - I wouldn't ask for perfection at this stage in his career. But getting bombed out at half time seemed way OTT in the circumstances we were facing. As I recall we initially put Trippier there before quickly realising it was a disaster and moving Tino over to give him his first game as a left back in that second half.

 

At the time I understood the Hall decision, thinking Howe was protecting him from pressure and maybe a red card, but I didn't think it would be one of the last times I saw him play.

 

On a side note - wrong thread for it really - Eddie made it about as explicit as possible without saying it in today's press conference that he takes issue with Livramento's performances in training and that's a major factor in him not making the team ahead of Burn.

Not sure I would interpret it like that mind.

[Beth]

4 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

The answer is we have to do everything we can to sell Targett (assuming he's not our starting LB). His wages are crazy.

Not a hope in hell we are selling him. He's on at least double here than what he would get anywhere else and he's barely ever been fit. He's here till summer 2026. A shocking signing in hindsight.

[Shearergol]

31 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

What's this?

A press conference none of us heard that way 

[NSG]

You can hear Howe praising Tino in the “Toon in Training” video today.
 

I’d be staggered if Tino wasn’t a good trainer, he seems a really down to earth grounded kid, and Trippier is basically his mentor. If he wasn’t putting the effort in then he wouldn’t be on the pitch. 

[andycap]

Getting sick of all this close shite howe speaks about players. tell us what you mean we are all dying to know. We seem to pick him to be on the bench every week but refuse to use him its baffling to me considering he's already tasted premier league football at his young age and been very impressive. Then in comes joe white who's not played anything above championship level and he gets used ahead of him. Also when he has getting a go he gets hooked at halftime you'd never see howe do that to one of his regulars. 

 

 

Edited February 23 by andycap

[gbandit]

Can someone put up the quotes about Tino from Howe? Tino looks a player who’s got the talent and also the right attitude, would be very surprised if he’s half-arsing it 

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, gbandit said:

Can someone put up the quotes about Tino from Howe? Tino looks a player who’s got the talent and also the right attitude, would be very surprised if he’s half-arsing it 

Only ones I can find 

 

 

[gbandit]

3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Only ones I can find 

 

 

If those are the quotes, there’s nothing to suggest Tino’s not training well there. It’s a complete nothing quote 

[Ikon]

I’m blocked… (fortunately)

 

 

Edited February 23 by Ikon

[Hanshithispantz]

Bird's question was all over the place like 

 

Why not just ask a simple question, "what are the short and long term plans for Lewis Hall?" ect

 

 

Edited February 23 by Hanshithispantz

[80]

48 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Only ones I can find 

 

 

The quote there is inaccurate, he said he needed to train well, not "continue" to train well, which is a significant difference when you're as careful with your language as Howe. Best just to watch the actual press conference. It was the last 30 seconds or so. There were some bits earlier on about training (not specifically about Tino) and also  our left back situation where he again restated how there are lots of factors that go into how someone gets picked, and that it's more than just obvious factors like form and on the pitch attributes.

 

To be clear, I don't think he thinks Tino is a bad trainer, but I think he puts a massive emphasis on players who set the tempo for the whole group and put everything in all the time every time. Trippier, Gordon, Joelinton. Players who are overtly demanding of themselves and those around them. Not just professionals who turn up 10 minutes early but fanatics who are in 1hr 15mins early. Which is something I think Burn excels at, to be fair to him.

 

Howe was quick to say he was happy with Livramento on the pitch but there was a gap when it came to what Eddie thought he offered off the pitch. He moved the conversation on. Not criticism, but you learn to listen to what he doesn't say. Similar to how it became apparent months ago through press conferences there was an issue with Hall - albeit it's way way milder with Tino of course. It's a pattern in how Howe thinks and communicates.

 

My bias, personally, is to think Eddie is being too stringent about rewarding training standards, but I'm not going to argue with him if it's how he wants to run things considering what he's achieved in dragging teams to new levels over the past 10-15 years. Instead I hope he can coax/inspire players like Hall into doing things as he wants them. The Bournemouth fans were pretty clear that he doesn't mess around in cutting someone loose if he thinks he won't get them to work to his schedule.