Rating the 2023 Summer Transfer Window

[r0cafella]

12 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

"Didn't bother" seems a bit harsh given we've pushed FFP to the limit, by all accounts.

 

Knowing the way we operate, either our primary targets weren't available or we considered other areas to be a priority.

 

I do want to see the right wing upgraded in the near future though.

I was being flippant saying we didn’t bother. We did certainly fail to improve areas many flagged as key though. 
 

And that’s kind of the point no? The way we operate has got us into this position and we’ve been brutally punished for it. 

We took a chance, tried to be cute in the window and at this point it (it may change in the future). 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

I’m one of those who thought it was a really good window - so far I’m badly wrong.  Not sure that Tonali loving a punt, Barnes seeing the shittest specialist in medicine or Hall being miles away could have been predicted mind  

[Yorkie]

16 hours ago, SUPERTOON said:

Obviously a lot of hindsight, but is the summer window the biggest reason for our struggles now?

 

The biggest reason for our struggles is the cumulative impact of injuries and fatigue. Unless you're buying well-known crocks, you can't assign blame to your summertime business if you end up with an availability crisis. 

 

We used our budget on a top defender, a top midfielder and a top attacker; there's no complaints from me where that's concerned. We could've used it on more backup/squad padding but why would we when we already had plenty of that?

[rebelrouser]

On 14/12/2023 at 10:45, Stottie said:

banned for something we could not have foreseen

The price on a player who was at his dream club should have raised some concerns that should have turned into an extensive background check. Did no one remember Ivan Toney? That was kind of a big deal. Blowing the majority of your limited money on a player who can't play is a complete disaster.

[madras]

2 hours ago, rebelrouser said:

The price on a player who was at his dream club should have raised some concerns that should have turned into an extensive background check. Did no one remember Ivan Toney? That was kind of a big deal. Blowing the majority of your limited money on a player who can't play is a complete disaster.

What sort if background check would have found it ? And no body thought we were getting him mega cheap.

[leffe186]

On 15/12/2023 at 10:38, Aiston said:

Too late to change my 8/10 to a 3/10 ?

 

 

It’s never too late to change your opinion on an issue based on evidence.

[Displayname]

Just getting Livramento makes it a great transfer window for the long term

 

[Whitley mag]

7 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

The biggest reason for our struggles is the cumulative impact of injuries and figure. Unless you're buying well-known crocks, you can't assign blame to your summertime business if you end up with an availability crisis. 

 

We used our budget on a top defender, a top midfielder and a top attacker; there's no complaints from me where that's concerned. We could've used it on more backup/squad padding but why would we when we already had plenty of that?

It’s a bit more complex than just saying we signed a top midfielder and top attacker though.

 

Nobody could have predicted the ban or Barnes injury, however were they the right signings in those positions ?

 

Time will tell but my problem is Tonali doesn’t look a 6, creative, or a particularly great passer.

 

Not convinced Barnes is a good footballer, presses well and against top defenders looks weak and doesn’t have a trick.

 

The transfer window was a missed opportunity with CL football and Howe needs to look beyond pace and physicality, as the CL games showed we looked poor technically in terms of passing and creativity.

[Displayname]

Just now, Whitley mag said:

It’s a bit more complex than just saying we signed a top midfielder and top attacker though.

 

Nobody could have predicted the ban or Barnes injury, however were they the right signings in those positions ?

 

Time will tell but my problem is Tonali doesn’t look a 6, creative, or a particularly great passer.

 

Not convinced Barnes is a good footballer, presses well and against top defenders looks weak and doesn’t have a trick.

 

The transfer window was a missed opportunity with CL football and Howe needs to look beyond pace and physicality, as the CL games showed we looked poor technically in terms of passing and creativity.

The betting thing may have weighed on Tonali's mind. That and moving to a new country with a new language makes me not wanting to judge him for the little time he played with us.

[Whitley mag]

Just now, Displayname said:

The betting thing may have weighed on Tonali's mind. That and moving to a new country with a new language makes me not wanting to judge him for the little time he played with us.

Fair enough but Milan fans said he’s not a great passer and by all accounts had 1 good season. We then proceeded to pay 50 million an Italian record on a player, when let’s be honest players from that country don’t have a great track record of adapting to PL football.

 

We could have had a genuine number 6 in Kone, or a far more technically gifted player in Kephren Thuram. Instead we went down the route of a player who looks like he gets around the pitch, has a good engine but does that offer anything different to Joelinton ? I’m not sure it does to be honest and for 50 million I think they’ve had our eye balls out.

[spudwiser]

6 hours ago, rebelrouser said:

The price on a player who was at his dream club should have raised some concerns that should have turned into an extensive background check. Did no one remember Ivan Toney? That was kind of a big deal. Blowing the majority of your limited money on a player who can't play is a complete disaster.

Wasn't the price similar to that of Barella at Inter? Barella also had a higher stock (post CL final run)over the summer but both dudes are similar all action midfielders. 

 

Long story short I don't think we underpaid at all. 

[Yorkie]

12 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

It’s a bit more complex than just saying we signed a top midfielder and top attacker though.

 

Nobody could have predicted the ban or Barnes injury, however were they the right signings in those positions ?

 

Time will tell but my problem is Tonali doesn’t look a 6, creative, or a particularly great passer.

 

Not convinced Barnes is a good footballer, presses well and against top defenders looks weak and doesn’t have a trick.

 

The transfer window was a missed opportunity with CL football and Howe needs to look beyond pace and physicality, as the CL games showed we looked poor technically in terms of passing and creativity.

 

Tbh I think we could've gone into the season without making a single signing and still progressed in the CL and maintained top 6/7 form, providing everyone stayed fit. 

 

I get that's a daft hypothetical but the point is: it's the injuries that have killed us, not our decisions in the transfer market.

 

Blaming the transfer window is like saying the sprinter who had his leg chopped off would be doing fine if only he'd started wearing better trainers. 

[Whitley mag]

6 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Tbh I think we could've gone into the season without making a single signing and still progressed in the CL and maintained top 6/7 form, providing everyone stayed fit. 

 

I get that's a daft hypothetical but the point is: it's the injuries that have killed us, not our decisions in the transfer market.

 

Blaming the transfer window is like saying the sprinter who had his leg chopped off would be doing fine if only he'd started wearing better trainers. 

Can’t agree with that the squad was way short to fight on 4 fronts, we got lucky with injuries last season and they have to be factored in to any planning.

 

For instance most layman could see last season that any injury to Botman would severely weaken the back line. One of the priorities in the summer should have been a CB with pace.

 

The injuries have been unprecedented, but still think the transfer window was poor and didn’t adequately address needs we had.

[Yorkie]

1 minute ago, Whitley mag said:

Can’t agree with that the squad was way short to fight on 4 fronts, we got lucky with injuries last season and they have to be factored in to any planning.

 

For instance most layman could see last season that any injury to Botman would severely weaken the back line. One of the priorities in the summer should have been a CB with pace.

 

The injuries have been unprecedented, but still think the transfer window was poor and didn’t adequately address needs we had.

 

You're criticising the window by identifying the one case where we've all but got away with the respective injury.  Botman is brilliant but we've not missed him in the way we have the likes of Pope, Murphy, Barnes and whichever CF has been sidelined. 

 

If there's one thing I'd consider criticising us for (in terms of recruitment planning) it's not getting a third striker. But even then it's clear we saw AG10 as third choice, with Barnes filling the vacated LW position. But injuries. 

[Wallsendmag]

Barnes, Tonali and Hall go down as flops as things stand. Livramento a big success. Only other player we paid money for was Minteh who seems to be doing OK at Feyenoord.

 

5/10.

[Nucasol]

2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

Barnes, Tonali and Hall go down as flops as things stand. Livramento a big success. Only other player we paid money for was Minteh who seems to be doing OK at Feyenoord.

 

5/10.

As things stand that’s a 3/10 window.

 

? Sobering stats alert ?

 

Assuming Hall’s loan gets made permanent that’s:

 

£55m Tonali 

£40m Barnes

£6m Minteh

£35m Tino

£33m Hall

 

Both by circumstances beyond or in his control, Eddie has been backed to the tune of nearly £180m this summer and £128m of it has primarily been on the bench, treatment table or now a beach in Dubai.
 

70% of the very extensive summer outlay has generated 3 goals and 1 assist across 28 games in all competitions. In total, those 3 players have played 27 games between them (14 starts, 14 subs).

[Whitley mag]

25 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

You're criticising the window by identifying the one case where we've all but got away with the respective injury.  Botman is brilliant but we've not missed him in the way we have the likes of Pope, Murphy, Barnes and whichever CF has been sidelined. 

 

If there's one thing I'd consider criticising us for (in terms of recruitment planning) it's not getting a third striker. But even then it's clear we saw AG10 as third choice, with Barnes filling the vacated LW position. But injuries. 

You’re kidding we’ve got away with Botman being out ? I don’t think anything’s further from the truth, Lascelles has done an admirable job but the loss of Botman has been one of the key reasons we’ve looked vulnerable at the back pre Pope getting injured.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Whitley mag

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

Given Isak and Wilson’s injury record, it seems very naive to not bring in another striker. Surely we didn’t think that both would stay fit for most of the season? 
 

Recognise the argument that the majority of clubs don’t have three strong striking options, but most clubs don’t have two strikers with consistent fitness issues.

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

Given Isak and Wilson’s injury record, it seems very naive to not bring in another striker. Surely we didn’t think that both would stay fit for most of the season? 
 

Recognise the argument that the majority of clubs don’t have three strong striking options, but most clubs don’t have two strikers with consistent fitness issues.

It’s true, most clubs don’t carry 3 strikers which leaves us with a hard choice. Either we become the exception or we make the extremely difficult decision and let Wilson go and get some money for him and use that for a replacement. 
 

That ship has set sail to an extent at this point though. 

[Yorkie]

1 minute ago, Whitley mag said:

You’re kidding we’ve got away with Botman being out ? I don’t think anything’s further from the truth, Lascelles has done an admirable job bit the loss of Botman has been one of the key reasons we’ve looked vulnerable at the back pre Pope getting injured.

 

Not kidding in the slightest, are you?

 

You're arguing that the transfer window is the reason for our downfall, making specific reference to us not signing a CB as an indicator of that. That's just crackers to me; an addition to the list of crazy alleged reasons for our nosedive alongside "we havent played Lewis Hall," and "we should be playing academy lads."

 

The defence was performing absolutely fine until Pope got injured and we entered peak exhaustion. Our record without Botman up to ManU was W8-D3-L3.

[Whitley mag]

15 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Not kidding in the slightest, are you?

 

You're arguing that the transfer window is the reason for our downfall, making specific reference to us not signing a CB as an indicator of that. That's just crackers to me; an addition to the list of crazy alleged reasons for our nosedive alongside "we havent played Lewis Hall," and "we should be playing academy lads."

 

The defence was performing absolutely fine until Pope got injured and we entered peak exhaustion. Our record without Botman up to ManU was W8-D3-L3.

The transfer window is undoubtedly a contributor alongside the injuries in my book. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise when only 1 out of the 4 signings has made a meaningful contribution.

 

We knew at the start of the season we we had the CL to contend with, therefore by default the squad needed strengthening due to extra games we never had last season.

 

You stated that you think without injuries/fatigue we’d have been just fine, the point is we we’re never going to be without injuries and fatigue due to the extra games.

The defence has performed admirably without Sven I acknowledge that, but the eye test and these stats show a different story. The effect of his absence has been telling in the dip of other players as well, Trippier looks like he’ll get skinned every week and Schar has reverted to being a liability in a back 4. We’ve also missed other attributes such as his distribution which has made us look vulnerable to the press away from home.

 

 

[Yorkie]

We're a better team with Botman in it but his absence/the fact we didn't sign another CB in the summer is not the reason for why we're out of the cup competitions and losing league form. Until the injuries and fatigue caught up with us, we'd been beaten by two opponents out of 13 or 14 without Botman.

 

Even the greatest planning of all wouldn't be enough to mitigate the injury crisis we've had. If Pope, Tonali and just one of Barnes/Murphy are available then I think we're still in Europe at the very least.

[Cf]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Tbh I think we could've gone into the season without making a single signing and still progressed in the CL and maintained top 6/7 form, providing everyone stayed fit. 

 

Agree with most of what you've been saying but not sure I do with this part. 

 

There'd have just been too many games for our squad without any additions. We wouldn't have been able to play our pressing game and the plan B everyone talks about wouldn't be all that hot either because our squad isn't technically good enough across the board. 

 

As with rating the window as a whole I think like everything else from the last month it has a big asterisk next to it that makes it really hard to judge. Potentially the lesson to take from it is to address the balance of immediate vs long term to focus slightly more on the immediate requirements next time around. 

[jackflap]

1 hour ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

Given Isak and Wilson’s injury record, it seems very naive to not bring in another striker. Surely we didn’t think that both would stay fit for most of the season? 
 

Recognise the argument that the majority of clubs don’t have three strong striking options, but most clubs don’t have two strikers with consistent fitness issues.

 

In fairness Gordon was supposed to be the solution to that.

[Whitley mag]

53 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

We're a better team with Botman in it but his absence/the fact we didn't sign another CB in the summer is not the reason for why we're out of the cup competitions and losing league form. Until the injuries and fatigue caught up with us, we'd been beaten by two opponents out of 13 or 14 without Botman.

 

Even the greatest planning of all wouldn't be enough to mitigate the injury crisis we've had. If Pope, Tonali and just one of Barnes/Murphy are available then I think we're still in Europe at the very least.

We literally went out of the CL without Botman playing a game, of the players you’ve mentioned I’d bet Botman would have made most difference in the CL games we dropped points in.

In the 12 PL games since Sheff United away when Botman last played before returning this is our record -

 

P 12

W 6

D 2

L 4

 

We lost 5 games in the whole of last season as a comparison, it might seem a stretch to put this all down to Botmans absence and certainly not signing a CB isn’t my sole gripe with the window. However, look how Liverpool collapsed when Van Dijk was out, the influence of Botman missing can’t be underestimated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Whitley mag