Lloyd Kelly (on loan at Juventus)

[El Hozzo]

 

 

9 hours ago, Fak said:

Woodgate at Real?

 

thats not italy...

[simonsays]

Just now, r0cafella said:

Yeah they maybe but within the next two years we need the following a right back, a left back 3 centre backs and a keeper. 

 

Good luck to us. 

Yeah, it's certainly going to be a sizeable rebuild.  We can only hope that the Kelly and Almiron sales are part of a bigger plan to sort out squad issues rather than just a scramble to make sure we are complying with PSR.

[Fak]

7 minutes ago, El Hozzo said:

 

 

 

thats not italy...

[Ben]

3 minutes ago, simonsays said:

Yeah, it's certainly going to be a sizeable rebuild.  We can only hope that the Kelly and Almiron sales are part of a bigger plan to sort out squad issues rather than just a scramble to make sure we are complying with PSR.

 

Not to mention the 7 players out of contract this summer, the basically non existent players coming through the youth team and the Howe/Mitchell dynamic. 

[Lush Vlad]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

That's 3. Let's talk about the rest. 

 

Schar is getting an extension, by the sounds of it. 

If we were to sign Guehi, or someone for the RCB role around a similar age.  We would have a starting back 4 next season who are all 25 and under.  

Burn and Schar for another season, possibly even two, as back ups and rotation options hardly sounds terrible.  They bring valuable experience and should we get into Europe.  It will mean we have some genuine options if we want to change the side or we get injuries.

I'd say we do need some cover for Tino.  As I'm not sure we should be relying on Krafth as second choice and Trippier is most likely off and past it, regardless.  But Kelly didn't help much here. 

I don't think he particularly helped at left back, either.  As he looked poor there when he did play.  He was now our 3rd choice LCB and 2nd or 3rd choice LB.  Seems like Targett will be off.  So we were going to need another left back regardless IMO.

Goalkeeper is irrelevant to this and you could argue getting rid of Kelly actually helps here with giving us some more HEADROOM (TM) 

 

It looks like a bit of a rebuild to an ageing defence and they saw £15-20m for someone who isn't close to breaking through into the first XI, who is supposedly on a decent contract, as too good to turn down.  I agree with the club on that. 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:07 by Lush Vlad

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

Schar is getting an extension, by the sounds of it. 

If we were to sign Guehi, or someone for the RCB role around a similar age.  We would have a starting back 4 next season who are all 25 and under.  

Burn and Schar for another season as back ups and rotation options hardly sounds terrible.  They bring valuable experience and should we get into Europe.  It will mean we have some genuine options if we want to change the side or we get injuries.

I'd say we do need some cover for Tino.  As I'm not sure we should be relying on Krafth as second choice and Trippier is more likely off.  But Kelly didn't help much there. 

I don't think he particularly helped at left back, either.  As he looked poor there when he did play.  He was now our 3rd choice LCB and 2nd or 3rd choice LB.  Seems like Targett will be off.  So we were going to need another left back regardless IMO.

Goalkeeper is irrelevant to this and you could argue getting rid of Kelly actually helps here with give us some more HEADROOM (TM) 

 

It looks like a bit of a rebuild to an ageing defence and they saw £15-20m for someone who isn't close to breaking through into the first XI, who is supposedly on a decent contract, as too good to turn down.  I agree with the club here. 

 

 

 

I'm not saying I don't agree but we have an issue which is going to require perfection from Mitchell to resolve. We have a squad full of defenders which are old and have contracts expiring and also need expensive reinforcements up front. 

 

My post was highlighting the other side of the coin that yes, we've got money for someone who was free, but we also have a ticking time bomb in terms of squad composition which is going to need a lot of money to resolve. 

[Lush Vlad]

5 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

I'm not saying I don't agree but we have an issue which is going to require perfection from Mitchell to resolve. We have a squad full of defenders which are old and have contracts expiring and also need expensive reinforcements up front. 

 

My post was highlighting the other side of the coin that yes, we've got money for someone who was free, but we also have a ticking time bomb in terms of squad composition which is going to need a lot of money to resolve. 

 

But he looks like he is miles away from playing and whilst it is harsh as he's only had limited minutes.  He looked crap at LB and ok a couple of times at CB and then atrocious the other time against West Ham.  

 

Considering he'll be on a PL starting player sort of salary and he signed on a free.  So I would guess he'd be on pretty big money and all (not the £150K people keep going on about on here ) then it makes perfect sense.  Instant profit and put that money to good use trying to get players that will actually contribute and push to be starting games.  Not a PSR expert like some on here.  But does it not help in that regard with giving us money to rebuild and to look at players that are going to feature? 

 

We need a bit of a rebuild at the back, yes.  Holding onto a player who doesn't appear to be in Howe's plans and is actually covering for a position where we are well stocked makes no sense. 

 

Also, I think perfection is a bit strong.  It's not ideal.  But another season with Pope in nets and maybe a younger back up type who might surpass him as number one soon isn't that bad of an idea IMO.  The same as if we were to sign a RCB.  We would actually look like we have some decent depth across the defence, apart from maybe left back.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:16 by Lush Vlad

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

But he looks like he is miles away from playing and whilst it is harsh as he's only had limited minutes.  He looked crap at LB and ok a couple of times at CB and then atrocious the other time against West Ham.  

 

Considering he'll be on a PL starting player sort of salary and he signed on a free.  So I would guess he'd be on pretty big money and all (not the £150K people keep going on about on here ) then it makes perfect sense.  Instant profit and put that money to good use trying to get players that will actually contribute and push to be starting games.  Not a PSR expert like some on here.  But does it not help in that regard with giving us money to rebuild and to look at players that are going to feature? 

 

We need a bit of a rebuild at the back, yes.  Holding onto a player who doesn't appear to be in Howe's plans and is actually covering for a position where we are well stocked makes no sense. 

 

Also, I think perfection is a bit strong.  It's not ideal.  But another season with Pope in nets and maybe a younger back up type who might surpass him as number one soon isn't that bad of an idea IMO.  The same as if we were to sign a RCB.  We would actually look like we have some decent depth across the defence, apart from maybe left back.

 

 

 

I really can't judge Kelly whatsoever the amount he played makes it impossible to do so imo. Versatile back up left centre back is what I viewed him as, nothing has really changed that. 

 

Pope is the prime example of what I'm referring to in terms of our current defensive profile, not going to improve, resale value dropping and apparently fragile in goal keeping terms at least. As I said earlier in the next 24 months we will need 2 keepers, a right back, 2 right sided centre backs, a left centre back as well as a left back. And that's without factoring us losing any of Hall, Tino or Botman. 

 

I just find our position really interesting and very challenging, even if we can get players in on lower salaries than our old guard the amortisation of buying these players could hurt. Mitchell has to pull rabbits. 

 

On a totally unrelated but related note, our academy investment has been far too slow and will cost us. 

[kingxlnc]

Trafford / Pope* / Ruddy

 

Tino/Trippier*/Krafth*

New RCB/Schar/Lascelles*

Botman/Burn

Hall/Targett*

 

Tonali/Miley
Bruno/Longstaff*/New CM

Joelinton/Willock*

New RW/Murphy

Isak/David/Osula

Gordon/Barnes

 

That is potentially a 25 man squad next season. Starters in bold. It doesn't scream out title contendors but it does have two decent players per position. 
Anyone with a * is potentially to be sold/replaced. 

Trafford, David, new RW, new RCB are the four absolute musts, as well as to sign a Longstaff replacement and maybe even a back up RB.
Lots of holes to plug, that's for sure. 

Then to take time for them to learn Eddie Howe's system - could be another slow start to next season.  
 

[Lush Vlad]

22 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

I really can't judge Kelly whatsoever the amount he played makes it impossible to do so imo. Versatile back up left centre back is what I viewed him as, nothing has really changed that. 

 

Pope is the prime example of what I'm referring to in terms of our current defensive profile, not going to improve, resale value dropping and apparently fragile in goal keeping terms at least. As I said earlier in the next 24 months we will need 2 keepers, a right back, 2 right sided centre backs, a left centre back as well as a left back. And that's without factoring us losing any of Hall, Tino or Botman. 

 

I just find our position really interesting and very challenging, even if we can get players in on lower salaries than our old guard the amortisation of buying these players could hurt. Mitchell has to pull rabbits. 

 

On a totally unrelated but related note, our academy investment has been far too slow and will cost us. 

 

I'm not even sure what point you're making now? You think it was the right decision to get rid of Kelly?  But we also should have kept him because the defence needs a rebuild?  This despite him not featuring much or looking like he was close to getting a run of games?  

 

I think you're massively over-thinking this massive rebuild and seemingly more worried than me about it.  As it's hardly something that has crept up on us and it can be addressed each summer for the next 2-3 seasons. 

 

Dubravka has been off for a while, Trippier the same.  So we must be planning for that?  We keep getting linked with a replacement for Dubs or Pope, we were close to signing a RCB last summer and I think Schar and Burn have a couple of seasons left if they're going to be playing less and they're happy to take more of rotation type role here.  Krafth as cover for Tino is far from ideal, but not a disaster.  But I do agree a right back is becoming a priority.    

 

Again, I don't follow the PSR stuff.  But some big earners will be off the books soon and we keep hearing that this summer there will be a lot more money to spend.  Just a starting quality RCB and RW makes us massively stronger, even if we are losing quite a few squad filler players.  As they're just not contributing and it would mean the likes of Schar and Murphy become viable back ups and not there just to make the numbers up.  Which is what it felt like with Almiron and Kelly.

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:46 by Lush Vlad

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

I'm not even sure what point you're making now? You think it was the right decision to get rid of Kelly?  But we also should have kept him because the defence needs a rebuild?  This despite him not featuring much or looking like he was close to getting a run of games?  

 

I think you're massively over-thinking this massive rebuild and seemingly more worried than me about it.  As it's hardly something that has crept up on us and it can be addressed each summer for the next 2-3 seasons. 

 

Dubravka has been off for a while, Trippier the same.  So we must be planning for that?  We keep getting linked with a replacement for Dubs or Pope, we were close to signing a RCB last summer and I think Schar and Burn have a couple of seasons left if they're going to be playing less and they're happy to take more of rotation type role here.  Krafth as cover for Tino is far from ideal, but not a disaster.  But I do agree a right back is becoming a priority.    

 

Again, I don't follow the PSR stuff.  But some big earners will be off the books soon and we keep hearing that this summer there will be a lot more money to spend.  Just a starting quality RCB and RW makes us massively stronger, even if we are losing quite a few squad filler players.  As they're just not contributing and it would mean the likes of Schar and Murphy become viable back ups and not there just to make the numbers up.  Which is what it felt like with Almiron and Kelly.

 

 

 

 

 

What I'm saying is: 2 sides to every coin and on the face of it the sale appears to be good our squad remains a massive puzzle which needs both taking apart and putting back together. 

 

No overthinking going on, but that's a good way to dismiss what I'm saying. 

 

Schar and Burn don't have 2 seasons in them on top of this one IMO, thankfully Burn is a lesser issue as we Botman to come in already. Schar as much as I love him is past his best now and I think it's been evident this season and to anyone who has watched him attempt to actual sprint. 

 

Krafth contract is up and yeah we can renew him but you'd think he may actual want to play football IF he's ever fit. 

 

If you don't follow the PSR discussions which I totally get this conversation is also quite pointless because everything has to be understood within the context of it like it or not. 

[Lush Vlad]

Just now, r0cafella said:

What I'm saying is: 2 sides to every coin and on the face of it the sale appears to be good our squad remains a massive puzzle which needs both taking apart and putting back together. 

 

No overthinking going on, but that's a good way to dismiss what I'm saying. 

 

Schar and Burn don't have 2 seasons in them on top of this one IMO, thankfully Burn is a lesser issue as we Botman to come in already. Schar as much as I love him is past his best now and I think it's been evident this season and to anyone who has watched him attempt to actual sprint. 

 

Krafth contract is up and yeah we can renew him but you'd think he may actual want to play football IF he's ever fit. 

 

If you don't follow the PSR discussions which I totally get this conversation is also quite pointless because everything has to be understood within the context of it like it or not. 

 

Not dismissing it at all.  It is purely IMO, you seem to be worrying about something that I'm not particularly worried about.  So I don't see where you're coming from at all and so that is what it seems like to me.  

 

It seems like we've gone a long way round to get there.  But basically, you think the defence needs a total rebuild in the next season or two.  Getting rid of Kelly for a tidy profit actually helps with this by the sounds of it.  So I don't see the other side of the coin here in relation to that player.  I don't see the positives in keeping him, if you want or think we need a big rebuild in the very short term.

 

Anyway, I'll duck out.  Because we're both repeating ourselves and I've bored myself with it all. 

[duo]

12 hours ago, kingxlnc said:

Trafford / Pope* / Ruddy

 

Tino/Trippier*/Krafth*

New RCB/Schar/Lascelles*

Botman/Burn

Hall/Targett*
 

As things stand don't the contracts of Ruddy, Trips, Krafth, Schar, Lascelles all expire in 2025? Canny few defenders to replace

[Alberto2005]

47 minutes ago, duo said:

As things stand don't the contracts of Ruddy, Trips, Krafth, Schar, Lascelles all expire in 2025? Canny few defenders to replace

Pretty sure at least Krafth and Schar will get extensions.

Trippier will definitely be gone. I'd probably let Lascelles and Targett go aswell.

 

I'm not sure if we have anything in the youth to bring in, but we'd definitely need a RCB as a starter and a LB to cover for Hall.

 

Something like:

 

Tino         New RCB       Botman       Hall

Krafth      Schar             Burn            New LB

 

If we get CL we will probably need an extra body, so wouldn't be against giving Lascelles another year.

[NWMag]

Walker Peters didn’t move this January and remains out of contract in the summer. He would cover LB and RB so I’d be amazed if we were not offering him a deal. 

[southernmag]

2 hours ago, NWMag said:

Walker Peters didn’t move this January and remains out of contract in the summer. He would cover LB and RB so I’d be amazed if we were not offering him a deal. 

 

I'm hopeful, but also have some trust issues preventing me being confident.