Group C: 1. England, 2. Denmark, 3. Slovenia (Q), 4. Serbia

[Yorkie]

13 minutes ago, Sifu said:

Group stage games are always edgy and hard to call mind when the main thing is getting out of the group - Portugal did it without winning a game and ended up winning the whole thing in 2016.

 

Yep. Literally all that matters in a tournament is progress. I do feel like (... and this is one of my principal defenses of Southgate) stuff gets analysed like we're talking about a 38 game season, where performances and patterns of play are more validly picked apart to the nth degree.

 

Winning teams often don't come flying out of the traps anyway, as you say.

 

2022: Argentina 1-2 Saudi Arabia

2016: Portugal 1-1 Iceland

2014: France 2-1 Australia

2012: Spain 1-1 Italy

2010: Spain 0-1 Switzerland

[huss9]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

 

Yep. Literally all that matters in a tournament is progress. I do feel like (... and this is one of my principal defenses of Southgate) stuff gets analysed like we're talking about a 38 game season, where performances and patterns of play are more validly picked apart to the nth degree.

 

Winning teams often don't come flying out of the traps anyway, as you say.

 

2022: Argentina 1-2 Saudi Arabia

2016: Portugal 1-1 Iceland

2014: France 2-1 Australia

2012: Spain 1-1 Italy

2010: Spain 0-1 Switzerland

i get that but its more that we didnt even try to put the game to bed. we have a squad full of quality. and thats what its been like for 6 years. croatia, italy, and even france .... southgate didnt really go for it.

the games you listed, the coaches werent sitting back trying to grind out a win or a draw.

[gazza ladra]

So is Foden getting much criticism outside this thread? Is this the  general consensus in England at the moment? Gordon and Bowen would cause Denmark all sorts if problems.

 

I'm starting to appreciate Conor Gallagher. I don't feel too good about that. Hope Chelsea have to sell.

[huss9]

1 minute ago, gazza ladra said:

So is Foden getting much criticism outside this thread? Is this the  general consensus in England at the moment? Gordon and Bowen would cause Denmark all sorts if problems.

 

I'm starting to appreciate Conor Gallagher. I don't feel too good about that. Hope Chelsea have to sell.

a little but also about being played out of position

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

 

Tbf my team would have Bellingham in CM role as well. I'm just recoiling at the inferences of Southgate being [insert vitriol] because he should obviously be doing X; when it's not actually that obvious. Incidentally, @Shearergol, this is an example of my general position on Southgate: not that he's brilliant; rather that the criticism is OTT/unjustified. 

 

Bellingham hardly played like a typical number 10 tonight anyway, imo. He patrolled the middle column and drifted wide too. It looks to me like Southgate has identified him as the key for England and so he's putting him in the position which makes him the most impactful. That's 10 rather than 8. I think there's sound logic in that; the only problem is that Foden - also a 10 - has to make way. LW isn't natural to him but he needs to be better than absolutely fucking shit before we're levelling the dysfunction squarely at the manager.

Bellingham played deeper tonight than any 10 would normally absolutely, and he was our best player definitely. I think my main issue is actually Trent being in there, rather than changing what Bellingham actually does. Foden played centrally quite a lot playing as he usually would, and there was often TAA, Foden and Bellingham all in the middle. If you're already actually playing Foden and Bellingham in the middle anyway, put Gordon on the left. We've already got Declan Rice in there, so why shoe horn an unnatural CM in as well? Rice is streets ahead of TAA too.

 

 

Edited June 16 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[Jaqen]

4 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Yep. Literally all that matters in a tournament is progress. I do feel like (... and this is one of my principal defenses of Southgate) stuff gets analysed like we're talking about a 38 game season, where performances and patterns of play are more validly picked apart to the nth degree.

 

Winning teams often don't come flying out of the traps anyway, as you say.

 

2022: Argentina 1-2 Saudi Arabia

2016: Portugal 1-1 Iceland

2014: France 2-1 Australia

2012: Spain 1-1 Italy

2010: Spain 0-1 Switzerland

 

I don't think the concern is a poor performance but more of recurring problems that leaves people with little confidence in Southgate. 

 

Even totally ignoring the team selection issues it always feels like we concede control to opponents too easily. We have a squad of world class players and we somehow seem to collectively shit ourselves when we come under any sort of pressure. Everyone retreating so far back, Kane dropping deep into midfield and as a team really struggling with possession. 

 

It's not even like we look really hard to break down or like we are trying to catch teams on the counter. We just look genuinely really nervy and scared. 

 

I think the biggest issue is Southgate doesn't seem to trust the defence. So there's always going to be two sitting midfielders trying to protect them then we seem to go even more defensive when we come under pressure and just invite teams onto us too much. 

[Kanji]

Eddie coached England team would eviscerate most nations because we’d press the living daylights out of them and we’d be up 2-3 nil in the first 25 mins 

[huss9]

Just now, Kanji said:

Eddie coached England team would eviscerate most nations because we’d press the living daylights out of them and we’d be up 2-3 nil in the first 25 mins 

luckily it will be years before we find out.

[Kanji]

Just now, huss9 said:

luckily it will be years before we find out.

Don’t want him anywhere near it for a long long long time. 

[huss9]

25 minutes ago, gazza ladra said:

So is Foden getting much criticism outside this thread? Is this the  general consensus in England at the moment? Gordon and Bowen would cause Denmark all sorts if problems.

 

I'm starting to appreciate Conor Gallagher. I don't feel too good about that. Hope Chelsea have to sell.

stuart pearce called for him to subbed for eze after 29 minutes

[Shearergol]

14 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Eddie coached England team would eviscerate most nations because we’d press the living daylights out of them and we’d be up 2-3 nil in the first 25 mins 

They’d all be injured before the group stages are over though 

[tgarve]

5 hours ago, 500bhp said:

I am the only one who doesn't give a shit about England .

 

I'm born and bred in Newcastle but feel no aligience to the national team at all. Seems false to cheer on players who I'll be shouting abuse at in SJP in a couple of months! 

Spot the cool man

[tgarve]

I haven’t read this thread but I can feel the negativity already with my friends.

 

That was a good result against a team that is stubborn strong and we did well to win

 

Expectations too high

[McDog]

Seems like a solid take. Not going to win 4-0 every game.

[Mazzy]

2 hours ago, Kanji said:

Eddie coached England team would eviscerate most nations because we’d press the living daylights out of them and we’d be up 2-3 nil in the first 25 mins 

 

We're going to find out very soon if that kind of thing works in International football when Austria play their first game. 

[Mazzy]

7 hours ago, 500bhp said:

I am the only one who doesn't give a shit about England .

 

I'm born and bred in Newcastle but feel no aligience to the national team at all. Seems false to cheer on players who I'll be shouting abuse at in SJP in a couple of months! 

 

Judging by the 42 pages on this thread alone I'd say you're in the minority. But if that's how you feel then fair play to you.

 

A move to Liverpool and surrounding areas might suit yourself.

[leffe186]

10 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

I wasn't being deadly serious; speaking out of frustration at his latest shite performance in an England shirt. The general point was that the actual England manager would be on a hiding to nothing by not playing someone like Foden imo, especially after the season he had. 

 

We're almost certainly a lot more balanced tonight if there's a straight swap between Gordon and Foden, but I can't blame Southgate too much for trying to find a way to have his cake and eat it, in terms of having both Bellingham and Foden in very advanced positions.  

 

A more tactically astute manager would probably find a way (does it have to be 4-2-3-1, for instance?) but again I think Foden let him down tonight with just how ineffectual he was. 

Not deadly serious? This is England, Sir! 

 

 

Edited June 17 by leffe186

[Optimistic Nut]

There's enough background this season to think Foden should be offering more even if he's not playing as a 10, like. Think this front 4 should get the Denmark game but if he shows no improvement, he'll be the one to make way imo.

 

I'm Team @Yorkieall the way, here. 

[Ben]

Great result, but fuck me England are boring 

[The College Dropout]

This isn’t a squad for of world class players. There’s multiple positions of weakness. 

[500bhp]

5 hours ago, tgarve said:

Spot the cool man

What does that man big man? 

 

I dont support England, end of. 

[500bhp]

4 hours ago, Mazzy said:

 

Judging by the 42 pages on this thread alone I'd say you're in the minority. But if that's how you feel then fair play to you.

 

A move to Liverpool and surrounding areas might suit yourself.

Such a bizarre reply, why Liverpool specifically. Am I missing something. 

[WilliamPS]

18 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

This isn’t a squad for of world class players. There’s multiple positions of weakness. 

Sure but no international team is perfect, and this squad is strong enough to win the tournament if a canny manager uses them well.

 

What drives everyone crazy is the manager has never used the squads well or adapted mid game. In every single tournament game we’re all screaming at the TV from 60mins. This thread, Inc my posts are maybe a bit of an overreaction but its happened so many times we are all 0-ragy bastards in 10seconds.

 

 

[Shearergol]

25 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

This isn’t a squad for of world class players. There’s multiple positions of weakness. 

Nobody has a squad full of world class players. That’s where managers and coaches show their importance. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

7 hours ago, Kanji said:

Eddie coached England team would eviscerate most nations because we’d press the living daylights out of them and we’d be up 2-3 nil in the first 25 mins 

I think Eddie would have to significantly change his style for international football. Is there any national side that plays a similar pressing game to Eddie/Klopp? It’s part of the reason why I earlier said TAA as good as he is for his club, may just not be suited to the international game.