Semi Finals: France 1-2 Spain, England 2-1 Netherlands

[The Prophet]

The defender and Kane challenge for the ball. Their feet are both in natural positions, given the height of the ball and contact is minimal.

 

Beyond that it isn't a "clear and obvious" error for VAR to be overturning. If Kane doesn't go down like a sack of spuds, it probably isn't even reviewed.

 

All in all, it's a honking decision and the fact it's being entertained as a penalty goes to show how utterly fucked the game is, largely thanks to VAR changing perceptions.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by The Prophet

[Cf]

Was surprised the penalty was given. 

 

I think anywhere else on the pitch it's given as a foul, even if it was a bit 50/50 but generally there's an unwritten rule that if the striker gets the shot away then no action is taken. 

[OpenC]

Absolutely fucking appalling decision. They appear to have offside sorted with a quick and almost automated system, they've already got something which tells you whether the ball was over the line or not. Rest of the tech should be fucked off now imo.

[Zero]

  On 11/07/2024 at 07:21, The Prophet said:

The defender and Kane challenge for the ball. Their feet are both in natural position, given the height of the ball and contact is minimal.

 

Beyond that it isn't a "clear and obvious" error for VAR to be overturning. If Kane doesn't go down like a sack of spuds, it probably isn't even reviewed.

 

All in all, it's a honking decision and the fact it's being entertained as a penalty goes to show how utterly fucked the game is, largely thanks to VAR changing perceptions.

Expand  

you shouldn’t judge the incident based on the level of contact. Just like making a two foot tackle with studs pointing towards the opponent - it should always be a red card even if no contact was made

 

it was a dangerous block. Kane escaped a broken foot.

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by Zero

[Zero]

  On 11/07/2024 at 07:32, Cf said:

Was surprised the penalty was given. 

 

I think anywhere else on the pitch it's given as a foul, even if it was a bit 50/50 but generally there's an unwritten rule that if the striker gets the shot away then no action is taken. 

Expand  

then they should change the written rule.

[jack j]

I don't mind Southgate really compared to most, but where he has had luck in comparison to other managers is the draws he has had. Apart from Germany in 2020 I wouldn't say they've beat a proper team in the knock out stages. If they win Sunday then fair play that changes everything

[Checko]

  On 11/07/2024 at 07:15, Groundhog63 said:

I always defer to my "the striker got his shot away, so no penalty" but can see the argument for any incident that would, 100% be a foul OUTSIDE the box, should be In the box. 

This gripe, here, is another one. Body to hand? Not handball? 

 

 

 

Expand  

Not a handball for me, arm movement looked pretty natural even if they were out wide. Arms do go out wide for balance sometimes.

 

Wasn't a penalty either for me. Ultimately the defender's instinctively just sticking a foot out to block the shot. If anything Kane kicks him in his follow through. For it to be a foul it has to be careless, reckless or using excessive force. Don't think it was any of those. It's whatever the footballing equivalent of a racing incident is.

 

Overall, first half much better. Kind of how I would expect us to be able to play, though I can only really remember Foden's off-the-line as a clear cut chance. Second half was largely pretty turgid again. Overall thought we deserved the win.

 

Thought the Netherhollands were very unimpressive though for the most part. First half they were all over the shop defensively, no-one seemed to be picking anyone up, which helped us out. 2nd half they got organised and largely shut our attacking game down but looked very uninspiring going forward.

[The Prophet]

  On 11/07/2024 at 07:35, Zero said:

you shouldn’t judge the incident based on the level of contact. Just like making a two foot tackle with studs pointing towards the opponent - it should always be a red card even if no contact was made

 

it is a dangerous block. Kane escaped a broken foot.

 

Expand  

 

That's just one factor as to why it's a ludicrous decision. 

[James]

  On 11/07/2024 at 07:37, jack j said:

I don't mind Southgate really compared to most, but where he has had luck in comparison to other managers is the draws he has had. Apart from Germany in 2020 I wouldn't say they've beat a proper team in the knock out stages. If they win Sunday then fair play that changes everything

Expand  

Assuming you are talking about 90 mins then you have to add the Netherlands.

 

Beyond 90 mins then the Swiss and the Colombians and the Danes come to mind

[joeyt]

  On 11/07/2024 at 08:04, James said:

Assuming you are talking about 90 mins then you have to add the Netherlands.

 

Beyond 90 mins then the Swiss and the Colombians and the Danes come to mind

Expand  

 

Hardly the world's elite teams like

[huss9]

  On 11/07/2024 at 07:35, Zero said:

you shouldn’t judge the incident based on the level of contact. Just like making a two foot tackle with studs pointing towards the opponent - it should always be a red card even if no contact was made

 

it is a dangerous block. Kane escaped a broken foot.

 

Expand  

was dangerous.

sure longstaff had it done to him previously and we were raging as we didint get a pel.

longstaff was out injured and i think it was the cause for his foot problem for months after.

[huss9]

and will people get it right... its PELANTY ffs. not hard to remember.

[Cronky]

  On 10/07/2024 at 21:50, The Prophet said:

 

If that's given on a regular basis, we might as well just give up.

Expand  

To be frank, I think what’s confusing the issue is that the defender didn’t prevent Kane from getting his shot away cleanly, and so the offence seems less serious.

 

Say in another part of the field, a defender clears the ball into touch but a late challenge from an opponent leads to the defender’s foot colliding with the opponent’s foot. No question in my mind that’s given as a foul.

 

There has been a convention that giving a pen requires a foul to be more serious than would be the case in other parts of the field. However, with Var, that seems to be loosening. Maybe in the early days of Var that incident may have failed the ‘clear and obvious’ test. But in order to get consistency, some rules are being tightened. So I think the decision was fair enough.

[jack j]

  On 11/07/2024 at 08:04, James said:

Assuming you are talking about 90 mins then you have to add the Netherlands.

 

Beyond 90 mins then the Swiss and the Colombians and the Danes come to mind

Expand  

Holland are historically a big nation but I'm not having that team they had out last night like

[The Prophet]

  On 11/07/2024 at 08:35, Cronky said:

To be frank, I think what’s confusing the issue is that the defender didn’t prevent Kane from getting his shot away cleanly, and so the offence seems less serious.

 

Say in another part of the field, a defender clears the ball into touch but a late challenge from an opponent leads to the defender’s foot colliding with the opponent’s foot. No question in my mind that’s given as a foul.

 

There has been a convention that giving a pen requires a foul to be more serious than would be the case in other parts of the field. However, with Var, that seems to be loosening. Maybe in the early days of Var that incident may have failed the ‘clear and obvious’ test. But in order to get consistency, some rules are being tightened. So I think the decision was fair enough.

Expand  

 

...but the follow through is absolutely minimal. Both players have a high boot trying to play the ball, it's not like the defender has impeded Kane or is late in any way. In the scenario you're describing the attacker tends to get caught or wiped out. 

 

I'm not entirely sure how UEFA implement it, but the referee hasn't made an error. If he'd have given the penalty in real time, it probably wouldn't have been overturned either, given the precedent they've set with past interventions.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by The Prophet

[Anderson]

Loved that it hit the net dead on 90. Wonder how much added time would’ve gone on if it was before the board went up, they always seem to reign it in when going to ET.

[El Prontonise]

  On 11/07/2024 at 09:24, Anderson said:

Loved that it hit the net dead on 90. Wonder how much added time would’ve gone on if it was before the board went up, they always seem to reign it in when going to ET.

Expand  

 

Some how the initial added time was only 2 mins.  Ref was absolutely abysmal.

[Cf]

Just take the common scenario of a player is through on goal and the defender throws in a tackle to try and block the ball. The shot gets away and the defender ends up making contact with the player after the shot goes.

 

It happens all the time and we don't, and shouldn't, give penalties for it. But it's essentially what happened last night.

[RobsonsWonderland]

Maradona's handball was obvious 

Sol Campbell's goal against Argentina could have been given.

Lampards ball over the line in south Africa (I will ignore the world cup one in 66)

 

Basically you get the luck of the green on any given decision.. this time it benefitted us, the next one might not.

 

Crack on

 

[The Prophet]

  On 11/07/2024 at 10:07, RobsonsWonderland said:

Maradona's handball was obvious 

Sol Campbell's goal against Argentina could have been given.

Lampards ball over the line in south Africa (I will ignore the world cup one in 66)

 

Basically you get the luck of the green on any given decision.. this time it benefitted us, the next one might not.

 

Crack on

 

Expand  

 

I'd say we've had far more bad luck down the years than good. You need a bit of fortune to win these things.

[El Prontonise]

That campbell goal was about the definition of a foul.  Shearter GBH'd the goalkeeper.

[Smal]

I don’t think we really need to go on about lucky decisions going for/against us. We were by far the better team in the game and deservedly won.

[Cronky]

  On 11/07/2024 at 08:51, The Prophet said:

 

...but the follow through is absolutely minimal. Both players have a high boot trying to play the ball, it's not like the defender has impeded Kane or is late in any way. In the scenario you're describing the attacker tends to get caught or wiped out. 

 

I'm not entirely sure how UEFA implement it, but the referee hasn't made an error. If he'd have given the penalty in real time, it probably wouldn't have been overturned either, given the precedent they've set with past interventions.

 

 

 

Expand  

 

Hang on. He was late. He attempted to play the ball and didn't get it. The fact that most of the energy came from Kane's boot is irrelevant. Kane got the ball, the defender didn't.

[Nucasol]

  On 11/07/2024 at 10:18, The Prophet said:

 

I'd say we've had far more bad luck down the years than good. You need a bit of fortune to win these things.

Expand  

In my lifetime watching England in tournaments:
 

Andreas Brehme’s free kick in Italia 90.

Stuart Pearce free kick off the underside of the bar vs France in Euro 92.

Koeman in 1994 qualifying.

Gaza’s studs in 1996.

Campbell’s ‘goal’ in 1998. 
David Seaman injuring himself in the warmup before playing Romania in 2000.

Playing David Seaman v Brazil in 2002. 
Rooney injury in 2004.

Owen injury in 2006.

Steve McLaren in 2008.

Lampard v Germany in 2010.

No excuses for 2012-2016 we were just turboshit.

 

We’re owed something by Lady Luck.

[Cronky]

In the last four tournaments, we've reached 3 semis, and 2 finals. However, in 3 out of the 4, we've been very lucky with how the draws for the knockout stages have worked out.