Marc Guehi

[madras]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

The club definitely have access to far more sophisticated data than I do and it might prove me wrong about Guehi’s aerial ability. 100%.  Not acting like there’s no room for error but it’s the best data that I have. 
 

The dozen+ clubs with greater pull than us also have access to more sophisticated data than me, why aren’t they in for him? They also had sophisticated data on Gordon, Bruno, Isak - why didn’t they sign them with their greater pull? 
 

If your point is ‘the club have better data than you, therefore your particular point here is invalid’. I think that’s a weak argument.  There’s a whole multitude that goes into signings. All end up being judgment calls where in the end people get things right and wrong all the time.  

My point is there is more than "heading ability". My guess is the other teams not in for him either don't need or have other priorities. I'm not saying your point is invalid just that there's more context to stats than a cold reading and why teams if analysts are employed on a full time basis.

 

More so it's a posting style thing, people read and get "I'm right, this isn't opinion, it's fact"

[Rich]

You lads enjoying the match?

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

You lads enjoying the match?

[Geordie Boyo]

Haven’t missed much to be fair 

 

[Shearergol]

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

You lads enjoying the match?

Not watching. Gonna spend 90 minutes checking the stats later.

[mattypnufc]

1 minute ago, Shearergol said:

Not watching. Gonna spend 90 minutes checking the stats later.

Then presumably tossing yourself off and talking about it on here aye, like a certain someone. 

 

 

Edited August 3 by mattypnufc

[Pilko]

36 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I dunno mate. 

here’s Jarrod Branthwaite. 

 

Gabriel during his Lille days 

 

Laporte and Otamendi - I wouldn’t have considered Otamendi so good in the air 

 

 Saliba in Ligue 1 as a kid. 

The stats from fbref and Whoscored also show compared to other PL CBs  wor Guehi ranks towards the bottom for headers and winning headers %. We would struggle to find several top quality CBs with worse heading success. Schar might be one of them funnily enough. 
 

I haven’t paid close enough attention to him to know if he’s always putting attackers off in other ways that other defenders don’t. It’s possible.  Also think heading ability is less important these days.  

 

[bobbydazzla]

[madras]

9 minutes ago, Rich said:

You lads enjoying the match?

That's the reason I'm looking at my phone.

[tarie4]

16 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

@KaKa I said Guehi looks comfortable on the ball but not an  progressive passer. I then shared stats that show evidence that he’s not a progressive passer. I like that he distributes off both feet though. You then accused me of calling him a ‘bad passer’. Show me where I said that. I didn’t. You lied on me. 

You seem to think because I said he’s not a progressive passer = he’s a bad passer. And that if I think he can pass with both feet = he’s a progressive passer or something? It’s all v. binary and basic. I don’t mean to be rude but you are either heavily biased or incapable of nuanced thought. 

 

Do you not believe that the club examines these statistics and then actually dispatches individuals to observe him in person? If we were to acquire players solely on the basis of statistics, there would be no requirement for scouts.

 

In my opinion, this is where your arguments fall short. I am certain that you are aware of this but are unwilling to acknowledge it.

[The College Dropout]

9 minutes ago, madras said:

My point is there is more than "heading ability". My guess is the other teams not in for him either don't need or have other priorities. I'm not saying your point is invalid just that there's more context to stats than a cold reading and why teams if analysts are employed on a full time basis.

 

More so it's a posting style thing, people read and get "I'm right, this isn't opinion, it's fact"

You are 100% right and I’m not suggesting ‘aerial win %’ or progressive passing is the be all and end all. 
 

I tend to start these posts ‘I think’ because it’s my opinion not a fact.  I’ve said numerous times, heading might not be all that important. He could get better at it. There’s lots of other factors into the signing and I might be over emphasising the elements that I like the look of from a defender. 
 

I find people want to argue my opinion.  They think my opinion is wrong eg he is worth £60m therefore everything I’m saying is wrong and has no merit. Then if I show merit (stats) just mock it - stats are boring, stats are wrong etc.

 

I think Tarie is a WUM. But I’ve fully accepted that Guehi’s pace is a significant advantage to us as they’ve mentioned. Once we replace Pope we would have a back 5 that’s tremendously comfortable on the ball. These things might be game changers for us. I don’t dismiss other people’s genuine ideas. 

 

[Dr Venkman]

32 minutes ago, tarie4 said:

Surely this signing is a no brainer.  I'm sure TCD is trolling. 

Not trolling, not intentionally anyway. Has successfully made another thread about him, though 

 

The content is largely irrelevant.

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, tarie4 said:

Do you not believe that the club examines these statistics and then actually dispatches individuals to observe him in person? If we were to acquire players solely on the basis of statistics, there would be no requirement for scouts.

 

In my opinion, this is where your arguments fall short. I am certain that you are aware of this but are unwilling to acknowledge it.

This is why I think Tarie is a WUM. I’ve just acknowledged that point. 
 

This happened several times in the Minteh thread. Rather than insult them or mock them. I just stopped responding.  

[tarie4]

17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I agree long term I like it more. But Botman isn’t likely to feature heavily this season so presents a potential issue in the short term.

 

I also think Howe likes a big defence, so it makes it harder for Hall who I’m a big fan of.  this one is more speculation. 
 

I generally prefer both CB to be good in the air like the best sides in the division. Some of which have found quality CBs for much less than £60m. Granted quick, good in the air, composed, strong, brings it out, penetrative passer etc. is a unicorn.  There’s trade offs everywhere. 

I am certain that if you are able to perceive the immediate concern, the club is also capable of doing so.

 

Mr. Howe is well compensated and is an exceptional manager. I am confident that he is fully aware of his actions.

 

If you were to watch the documentary series titled "We Are Newcastle," you would discover that the club had anticipated Anthony Gordon's potential to become one of the most accomplished players in the Premier League. I am curious to know what your statistics indicated about him at that time.

 

Once again, we have a world-class management team that successfully transformed a team that was languishing at the bottom of the league into a team that reached a final and qualified for the Champions League within a single season.

 

I have complete trust in their judgment, and I believe you should as well.

[Ikon]

And I thought it was nice that the Minteh thread went quiet for a while so we could enjoy this instead….

[tarie4]

1 minute ago, Ikon said:

And I thought it was nice that the Minteh thread went quiet for a while so we could enjoy this instead….

The statistics indicate that it is not feasible. 😃

[KaKa]

19 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

 

The other stats are troubling for Guehi too. It's not obvious what he's meant to be really good at. Schar you can see his ball progression via passing and dribbles are among the highest in the stats. That is the Schar USP. What's the Guehi USP? From what I've seen it's pace and comfort on the ball under pressure. Need a bit more than that for £60m imo.

 

18 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Agree with your second point.  
 

If he was so great at passing and carrying the ball - it would be more evident in the stats imo. 
 

Again eye test. He looks super comfortable on the ball. Good under the pressure and looks like he could be encouraged to bring it out more. But Anderson always looked the progressive passer. 

 

 

 

 

@The College Dropout

 

These are the two bits that lead to our whole discussion.

 

In the second post you said if he was so great at passing and carrying the ball - it would be more evident in the stats. You've since clarified that you meant progressive passing.

 

Now personally, from watching him play he is excellent on the ball, passes it really well and not just side to side either, and carries it out from the back really well too.

 

Your argument is that his stats are not comparable to Andersen's or Schar's in these areas, and so he isn't that good at these things.

 

I don't necessarily see it that way. Because Andersen is a better passer and they play through him more, this by no means takes away from Guehi's abilities. However, it will affect his stats though, as he will not need to take the initiative as much in that area. As I also mentioned a lot of these stats came during Hodgson ball too, where in general it wasn't very progressive play from the back, so again less opportunity.

 

Regarding not carrying the ball as much and bringing it out more. I would imagine in a partnership with Andersen, who is less mobile, Guehi is more likely to be tasked with covering, with Andersen bringing the ball out more often.

 

I just think watching him play within the Palace team, you can see he doesn't lack in these areas, and there's a lot more that goes into all of this.

 

And so just firing off all these stats isn't enough for me.

 

 

 

Edited August 3 by KaKa

[tarie4]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

This is why I think Tarie is a WUM. I’ve just acknowledged that point. 
 

This happened several times in the Minteh thread. Rather than insult them or mock them. I just stopped responding.  

I guess the Stats prove this 🤷 

 

This coming from the guy who pulled up VVD stats to prove his point. Yeah WUM.

[Shearergol]

15 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

This is why I think Tarie is a WUM. I’ve just acknowledged that point. 
 

This happened several times in the Minteh thread. Rather than insult them or mock them. I just stopped responding.  

Just out of interest, what triggers this in you? Asking for a friend.

[tarie4]

13 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

@The College Dropout

 

These are the two bits that lead to our whole discussion.

 

In the second post you said if he was so great at passing and carrying the ball - it would be more evident in the stats. You've since clarified that you meant progressive passing.

 

Now personally, from watching him play he is excellent on the ball, passes it really well and not just side to side either, and carries it out from the back really well too.

 

Your argument is that his stats are not comparable to Andersen's or Schar's in these areas, and so he isn't that good at these things.

 

I don't necessarily see it that way. Because Andersen is a better passer and they play through him more, this by no means takes away from Guehi's abilities. However, it will affect his stats though, as he will not need to take the initiative as much in that area. As I also mentioned a lot of these stats came during Hodgson ball too, where in general it wasn't very progressive play from the back, so again less opportunity.

 

Regarding not carrying the ball as much and bringing it out more. I would imagine in a partnership with Andersen, who is less mobile, Guehi is more likely to be tasked with covering, with Andersen bringing the ball out more often.

 

I just think watching him play within the Palace team, you can see he doesn't lack in these areas, and there's a lot more that goes into all of this.

 

And so just firing off all these stats isn't enough for me.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree. Every Newcastle supporter knows we need more speed and agility at center back. Guehi has that. So it's hard to understand why someone would talk about passing and not mention the obvious need for PACE in our back line. Guehi is one of the best central defenders in the league, imagine how good he'll be after Howe has trained him.

 

That's why I think he's just trolling.

 

He's not really saying anything that makes sense, even with all those stats he's throwing out there.

 

Guehi would be a great signing if we can get it done. Let's make the conversation focus on Guehi and not TCD, he likes playing the devil's advocate. 

 

 

Edited August 3 by tarie4

[Mahoneys Tache]

There’s some right tedious knobbers on here mind. Bean counting bores. 
Anyone using the term ‘triggered’ on a football forum needs a good haircut and a spell in the army. 

 

 

Edited August 3 by Mahoneys Tache

[Interpolic]

[midds]

[gbandit]

[Dr Venkman]

Hahahaha