Marc Guehi

[stozo]

Just now, Shearergol said:

 

We don't need a 20 year old CB to be better than Schar and Botman. We need them to be better than Krafth, with the potential to become as good as Schar.

I think that's where your wrong. Schar is 32 years old. The reason we are rolling him on one-year contracts is because the average CB falls off a cliff performance wise as they approach their mid-30s. If you sign Silva, and it turns out Schar goes off the cliff before Silva is ready (which at 20, could be 2-3 years away) then you are in serious trouble. 

[KaKa]

Just now, stozo said:

I think you are probably overestimating our pull here. Osimhen has just gone to Saudi in exactly the scenario you've outlined - Chelsea made him a very good offer, he could have stayed in Europe but at the end of the day the money he has been offered in Saudi is so great he's gone there. 

 

It's not the same for every player.

 

Osimhen has been holding out for Arsenal all summer, but they opted against the move.

 

He actually accepted the move to Chelsea, but their new wage structure is lower than even what he was getting at Napoli, and so he refused what was essentially a wage cut. He's a top tier striker and so won't agree to go down in money, and they wouldn't even match his Napoli wages.

 

Simakan was on 30k and so it's a completely different scenario.

[bobbydazzla]

7 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

Which why it never made sense to put all of our eggs in one basket for the entirety of the window. 

 

How do you know we've done that, are you in regular contact with the NUFC transfer committee ?

 

This window has been frustrating, no doubt about it.

 

But we might have tried to land 10 x target CB's and been knocked back each time, by the payer or their club. 

 

Unless the answer to my question above is "yes" then you (or anyone else on here) doesn't know what's actually happened that's caused our lack of incoming transfer activity. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2024 by bobbydazzla

[r0cafella]

37 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I absolutely love Howe but the reasons he's given for potentially getting no one in don't make any sense like. 

They make absolutely zero sense, crying the poor tail when we’ve offered 70m for someone is fucking nuts

[Shearergol]

4 minutes ago, stozo said:

I think that's where your wrong. Schar is 32 years old. The reason we are rolling him on one-year contracts is because the average CB falls off a cliff performance wise as they approach their mid-30s. If you sign Silva, and it turns out Schar goes off the cliff before Silva is ready (which at 20, could be 2-3 years away) then you are in serious trouble. 

 

Signing nobody at all seems to be the biggest of the risks. Can't play £60m of banknotes at RCB can we?

[Nucasol]

Guehi seems the type of bloke that will sign a new contract with a release clause and do an Olise to a Cartel Club.

[r0cafella]

To be very Frank, it’s quite clear that if we want to keep on improving the squad which obviously should be a priority for us we have to player trade like Villa are, we’ve shown an absolute refusal to do so and is the thing slowing our progress. 
 

Benitez made nothing stretch so fucking far, and he we are crying the poor tale whilst offering 70m for centre half’s. Literally mad. 

[Kimbo]

5 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

How do you know we've done that, are you in regular contact with the NUFC transfer committee ?

 

This window has been frustrating, no doubt about it.

 

But we might have tried to land 10 x target CB's and been knocked back each time, by the payer or their club. 

 

Unless the answer to my question above is "yes" then you (or anyone else on here) doesn't know what's actually happened that's caused our lack of incoming transfer activity. 

 

 

 

 

 

If Mitchell went for 10 CB’s and couldn’t get any of them interested, then maybe he’s not the man for us.

 

Whatever explanation we come up for for this window, there has been a failure somewhere down the line.

[Kid Icarus]

19 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I can't agree that the point doesn't make sense. I don't necessarily agree with it but there's definitely logic to it. 

 

We're not at the point of being totally desperate for a CB, as useful as it would be right now. If we're taking our chances on getting the perfect person in the next transfer window rather than getting the 'wrong' one in now, I can live with that choice. 

 

What's the logic to it, do you think? 

 

I can't get my head around it at all that, on the face of it, the only position worth pursuing is CB and the only CB worth pursuing in that position is £70m Marc Guehi. 

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Guehi seems the type of bloke that will sign a new contract with a release clause and do an Olise to a Cartel Club.

 

Palace would have sold him if he had made it clear he wanted the move badly enough.

[r0cafella]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

 

What's the logic to it, do you think? 

 

I can't get my head around it at all that, on the face of it, the only position worth pursuing is CB and the only CB worth pursuing in that position is £70m Marc Guehi. 

It’s nonsense and you’ve actually summed it up perfectly. 
 

We aren’t in the market to sign forever players; and if this is mentally we have we are fucked. Yes we need players to improve us but that isn’t difficult is it? We need players who are of a profile that can be sold on down the line to buy us headroom. 
 

Im really concerned we have no plan to move forward to be frank, he was asked what would you learn from this and the answer was basically nothing to learn

 

he speaks well you course but when you scratch the surface of what’s been said it’s hilariously poor. 

[Beren]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

What's the logic to it, do you think? 

 

I can't get my head around it at all that, on the face of it, the only position worth pursuing is CB and the only CB worth pursuing in that position is £70m Marc Guehi. 

 

Reframe it differently and it's plausible IMO. The only position worth creating a future liability of that size for is a 24 year old, PL proven, English CB with a high probability of retaining his resale value, who can make an immediate difference to the first team and allow us to control possession.

[r0cafella]

Just now, Beren said:

 

Reframe it differently and it's plausible IMO. The only position worth creating a future liability of that size for is a 24 year old, PL proven, English CB with a high probability of retaining his resale value, who can make an immediate difference to the first team and allow us to control possession.

This isn’t true though beren, we never get back 70m on mark Guehi, it’s a massive overpay it’s obvious we are the only people in the running at those kind of numbers. 

[TRon]

Just now, r0cafella said:

It’s nonsense and you’ve actually summed it up perfectly. 
 

We aren’t in the market to sign forever players; and if this is mentally we have we are fucked. Yes we need players to improve us but that isn’t difficult is it? We need players who are of a profile that can be sold on down the line to buy us headroom. 
 

Im really concerned we have no plan to move forward to be frank, he was asked what would you learn from this and the answer was basically nothing to learn

 

he speaks well you course but when you scratch the surface of what’s been said it’s hilariously poor. 

 

It can only be Howe wanted Guehi and Mitchell put all his eggs in that basket. I presume that's not how he usually works but it can't ever happen again. We can maybe put this one down to a new man trying to fit in, but Mitchell was hired to do a job, and next time round he needs to earn his money. We can't have two directors of football.

[bobbydazzla]

16 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

If Mitchell went for 10 CB’s and couldn’t get any of them interested, then maybe he’s not the man for us.

 

Whatever explanation we come up for for this window, there has been a failure somewhere down the line.

 

Agree, if I was CEO and had asked the transfer team to improve the squad this window, I'd be grilling them about what was going wrong in our identification of players who were both suitable and landable.

 

But the point I was replying to was that we'd only pursued Guehi and no-one else. Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, but no-one outside of the NUFC transfer team and some other clubs / agents can possibly know

 

And to be fair to Mitchell he's only been in the job a few weeks so if I was CEO he wouldn't be the one I'd be concerned about yet, if we plan our targets properly over the mid-term like has been suggested, then I imagine his involvement this window has been limited

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2024 by bobbydazzla

[Beren]

Just now, r0cafella said:

This isn’t true though beren, we never get back 70m on mark Guehi, it’s a massive overpay it’s obvious we are the only people in the running at those kind of numbers. 

 

Perhaps. He isn't yet in the prime of his career, and if the club really believes in his talent and potential - they may accept him as part of the recycling of purples (recognising we realistically can't have unlimited purples).

 

So maybe Bruno goes, for example, but we retain a spine of Guehi, Gordon, Isak, Tonali.

[Yorkie]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

27 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I can't agree that the point doesn't make sense. I don't necessarily agree with it but there's definitely logic to it. 

 

We're not at the point of being totally desperate for a CB, as useful as it would be right now. If we're taking our chances on getting the perfect person in the next transfer window rather than getting the 'wrong' one in now, I can live with that choice. 

 

What's the logic to it, do you think? 

 

I can't get my head around it at all that, on the face of it, the only position worth pursuing is CB and the only CB worth pursuing in that position is £70m Marc Guehi. 

 

I'd just be repeating what I already said in the post you quoted. 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

It can only be Howe wanted Guehi and Mitchell put all his eggs in that basket. I presume that's not how he usually works but it can't ever happen again. We can maybe put this one down to a new man trying to fit in, but Mitchell was hired to do a job, and next time round he needs to earn his money. We can't have two directors of football.

It’s not about that though, he’s gone and done exactly what I expected and mocked he’s gone crying about FFP whilst shopping in the most expensive possible market and failing

 

it’s basically a bullshit response. 

[TheBrownBottle]

It’s an unusually unsavvy response from Howe, who is normally impeccable in pressers.

 

The logic in what he’s said is deeply flawed.  You can’t be making club record bids and then claiming PSR has fucked you and we haven’t got the money to improve.

 

i completely understand why he’d want Guehi, who would instantly make us a better side.  But he’s not the only centre back out there - and for those sort of numbers, all but a handful of current centre backs might have been bought. 

[r0cafella]

Just wish the board would faster get on with telling us the plan for sjp so I can crystalise my opinions about the future direction of the club. 

[mondonewc]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

What's the logic to it, do you think? 

 

I can't get my head around it at all that, on the face of it, the only position worth pursuing is CB and the only CB worth pursuing in that position is £70m Marc Guehi. 

Hypothetical scenario (dates may be out but it's irrelevant):

Mid July - Howe & Co - Let's go get Guehi, circa 60m should do it

Around same time Todibo is going to West Ham, Howe & Co consider trying to hijack that deal and get him instead:

a) Maybe he would rather move to London than Newcastle
b) We think Guehi is much better and believe we can get him 

Could list c, d and e etc reasons re attitude etc to elaborate further reasons why Guehi>>>>Todibo

End of July -  Negotiations with Parish for Guehi not going fully as expected, Parish seems to want to play hardball, our perception is we can come up a little and 1-2 weeks time we'll get this done 

Rinse repeat Todibo scenario with some other potential options

Mid August - Howe & Co starting to worry, surely Parish will sell him in the end though, and if we have to pay slightly over what we deem fair value so be it.

End of August - Howe & Co realise Parish clearly isn't bluffing, Anderson has unexpectably been sold, another CB of Palace has been injured, so Parish deems fit to increase the price multiple time, this has now gone to shit and we've basically fucked it up....

And here we are!

Now everyone's welcome to criticise their approach, but a lot of the criticism seems results orientated which I personally would look to avoid as it's all well and good with hindsight, but I'd rather try to judge the situation on what I deem to be a fairer basis than that. 

[Parsley]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It’s an unusually unsavvy response from Howe, who is normally impeccable in pressers.

 

The logic in what he’s said is deeply flawed.  You can’t be making club record bids and then claiming PSR has fucked you and we haven’t got the money to improve.

 

i completely understand why he’d want Guehi, who would instantly make us a better side.  But he’s not the only centre back out there - and for those sort of numbers, all but a handful of current centre backs might have been bought. 

I think the point around PSR is that we cab no longer afford to sign duds that we have to shift at a loss after a season or two. Signings have to be near enough a perfect fit to maximize value; PL experience falls into that 'fit', which invariably drives the price up. 

[stozo]

21 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

Signing nobody at all seems to be the biggest of the risks. Can't play £60m of banknotes at RCB can we?

It's 100% a risk but with PSR the biggest risk is actually getting a signing wrong. In the next 2-3 years we have virtually no room for error. If an expensive inbound transfer goes wrong then we won't have the ability to just cut our losses and sign another player. Or rather, the only way we'll be able to sign another player is by cashing in on someone we don't want to sell (which likely means Bruno, Isak or Gordon). Do I like this? No. Is this the reality we face with PSR? Sadly Yes. 

[The Prophet]

41 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I can't agree that the point doesn't make sense. I don't necessarily agree with it but there's definitely logic to it. 

 

We're not at the point of being totally desperate for a CB, as useful as it would be right now. If we're taking our chances on getting the perfect person in the next transfer window rather than getting the 'wrong' one in now, I can live with that choice. 

 

It's not that uncommon either. For example, Arsenal need a striker, they really wanted Sesko who decided to sign a new contract with Leipzig so they didn't bother.

[DahnSahf]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

 

The logic in what he’s said is deeply flawed.  You can’t be making club record bids and then claiming PSR has fucked you and we haven’t got the money to improve.

 

 

He wasn't saying that though. He was saying we can spend the money but because of PSR it must improve us.

Whether you agree with the way they've gone about it is a different matter of course.