NUFC specific FFP/PSR discussion

[Bimpy474]

I still can't get my head around why a club pays an agent of a player they want to buy, or when renewing a contract. It's ridiculous, and the football authorities should have ended that shite years ago.

 

If a player employs an agent, they should pay him. Agents may well do a good job for the player, but being paid the clubs is absolute nonsense. 

[Jimburst]

3 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

I still can't get my head around why a club pays an agent of a player they want to buy, or when renewing a contract. It's ridiculous, and the football authorities should have ended that shite years ago.

 

If a player employs an agent, they should pay him. Agents may well do a good job for the player, but being paid the clubs is absolute nonsense. 

 

There's no difference, players would just ask for that fee to be part of their signing package and then they'd pay it. 

[Bimpy474]

3 hours ago, Jimburst said:

 

There's no difference, players would just ask for that fee to be part of their signing package and then they'd pay it. 

 

Then makes rules preventing that. However, It's too late now but regulation should have happened long ago.

 

 

Edited April 15 by Bimpy474

[Jimburst]

Agreed, I reckon they should be made to pay their wages or something? I guess that would just inflate player wages too.

[Sibierski]

40 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

I still can't get my head around why a club pays an agent of a player they want to buy, or when renewing a contract. It's ridiculous, and the football authorities should have ended that shite years ago.

 

If a player employs an agent, they should pay him. Agents may well do a good job for the player, but being paid the clubs is absolute nonsense. 

It’s so much money going out of the game, it’s disgusting. Horse has bottled though, but they can still try and tighten things.

[Kaizero]

11 hours ago, Bimpy474 said:

Then makes rules preventing that. However, It's too late now but regulation should have happened long ago.

 

General custom is that the club pays the agent the fee they'd take from their client's wages/bonuses and similar. Alternative would be that the club pays the player in wages/bonuses what the player would have to pay their agent for the agreed terms.

 

Here's examples for both using generic and easily digestible numbers rather than numbers from an actual deal:

 

Background Info for Examples:

• Player X has signed a 3 year deal with Club Y, giving him a weekly salary of £1000
  • £52k per annum
  • £156k in total
     
• In addition, Club Y has agreed to pay Player X a £5000 "signing-on" bonus
  • Player X will earn £161k in total at the end of his 3 year deal with Club Y
     
• Player X is represented by Agent Z, in their representation agreement Player X has agreed to pay Agent Z;
  • 10% of his salary
  • 10% of his bonuses
     
• Agent Z is therefore entitled to;
  •  £15.6k from Player X's salary for the 3 year deal agreed with Club Y 
  • £500 from Player X's "signing-on" bonus from Club Y
    • £16.1k in total

Club Pays Agent:

• Player X signs the deal with the terms specified above, with Club Y signing a separate payment agreement with Agent Z for £16.1k
  • This would in most cases be structured as one of the below;
    • 1 lump sum payment – this is the easiest option for Club Y, though it may not be the wisest economic choices as if Player X leaves the club before the contract is up, the "extra" money paid to Agent X will be lost
    • 3 annual payments – this lowers the chance of throwing money out of the window should Player X leave after 1 or 2 years, not seeing out his contract
    • 6 semi-annual payments – this lowers the chance of throwing money out of the window even further, but as with the "3 annual payments" option, this option means more beurecracy and tax-related work efforts to be put in by Club Y

Player Pays Agent:

• Player X assumes responsibility for paying Agent Z, leaving Club Y out of their payment arrangement
  • This, however, does not mean that Club Y won't be the ones paying Agent Z...
     
• Player X and Agent Z agreed that Player X would sign for Club Y if offered a weekly salary of £1000
  • However, the weekly salary demand for Playr X to sign under the "Player pays Agent" scenario is not the same as the one in the "Club pays Agent" scenario
    • Player X will now only sign for a weekly salary of £1100
  • The same applies to Player X's "signing-on" bonus, where the absolute minimum demanded for Player X to sign is now £5500
     
• In the end, it's always the club that bears the financial burden of paying a player's agent/agency for services provided

[McDog]

2 hours ago, Kaizero said:

 

• In the end, it's always the club that bears the financial burden of paying a player's agent/agency for services provided

 

In contrast, in the USA the agent is hired  by the player and THEY negotiate a percentage deal amongst themselves as for how much the agent is paid for negotiating the contract. Some players now have no agent and negotiate deals to save the percentage. Teams NEVER EVER pay agents. They work for the player.

[Kaizero]

3 hours ago, McDog said:

In contrast, in the USA the agent is hired  by the player and THEY negotiate a percentage deal amongst themselves as for how much the agent is paid for negotiating the contract. Some players now have no agent and negotiate deals to save the percentage. Teams NEVER EVER pay agents. They work for the player.

 

I feel like you didn't read my post when you quote that part and say what you said, when what you said is exactly the same as what I said in the section directly above what you quoted  You're repeating one of the two scenarios I described for how the sports club end up bearing the cost of a player's agent even if they don't directly pay the agent themselves.

 

 

Edited April 16 by Kaizero

[Stifler]

I think FIFA and UEFA should just do it so each transaction gets locked in transaction fee for the agents.

 

Transfers between tier 1 UEFA top 5 nations, £250k per sale, £100k per loan, £50k contract extension.

Fee can only be paid for this player once every 2-3 years to prevent the agents for getting players to move around a lot.

 

That’s just an example.

I also think players should just pay their agents in anyway.

[r0cafella]

Why restrain trade when the people who are complaining aren't the clubs, the players or the agents?

[McDog]

6 hours ago, Kaizero said:

 

I feel like you didn't read my post when you quote that part and say what you said, when what you said is exactly the same as what I said in the section directly above what you quoted  You're repeating one of the two scenarios I described for how the sports club end up bearing the cost of a player's agent even if they don't directly pay the agent themselves.

 

 

 

 

That is indeed a scenario you laid out, but that isn't what happens in England unless I am mistaken which is possible. Merely pointing out that IS how it works across the pond.

[SteV]

Anybody still think we should have just ‘fucked it off’ and taken a points deduction?

[Dokko]

18 minutes ago, SteV said:

Anybody still think we should have just ‘fucked it off’ and taken a points deduction?

 

Yup. We scraped into CL by sheer luck. Reckon a better squad seals 2nd even with a deduction. 

 

We gambled, we won. It was fucking close. Hopefully that's the end of it though and we don't have to sit doing nowt in window after window. 

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Yup. We scraped into CL by sheer luck. Reckon a better squad seals 2nd even with a deduction. 

 

We gambled, we won. It was fucking close. Hopefully that's the end of it though and we don't have to sit doing nowt in window after window. 

Which player, or at least which position for the additional player do you think gives us an extra 5-10 points to compensate for the deduction?

[The Prophet]

The league table rarely lies, I don't think we've been lucky.

[Rich]

Nonsense to say anything other than it was a masterstroke from Wor Mandy at this stage, IMO.

 

How could we have bettered a cup and a top-five finish? You're essentially talking about a title challenge and winning the FA Cup in addition to the League Cup.

[Dokko]

6 minutes ago, SteV said:

Which player, or at least which position for the additional player do you think gives us an extra 5-10 points to compensate for the deduction?

 

Fuck it Chelsea style, not put ourselves in a dammed position.

 

The psr hack with minteh and Anderson cancelled and the young cb from Bournemouth going to Madrid. 

[JT24]

1 minute ago, Rich said:

Nonsense to say anything other than it was a masterstroke from Wor Mandy at this stage, IMO.

 

How could we have bettered a cup and a top-five finish? You're essentially talking about a title challenge and winning the FA Cup in addition to the League Cup.

Quadruple next season or sack everybody. 

[Bondedcrown]

12 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Yup. We scraped into CL by sheer luck. Reckon a better squad seals 2nd even with a deduction. 

 

We gambled, we won. It was fucking close. Hopefully that's the end of it though and we don't have to sit doing nowt in window after window. 

If you think finishing 5th after 38 games was sheer luck you need to get another team to support! Were we lucky to win the league also? 

[PauloGeordio]

Aren’t we 4th/5th in the table of games played since Eddie arrived? We’re exactly where we should be, right in amongst it and on merit. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:09 by PauloGeordio

[SteV]

5 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Fuck it Chelsea style, not put ourselves in a dammed position.

 

The psr hack with minteh and Anderson cancelled and the young cb from Bournemouth going to Madrid. 

So, breach PSR by something like ~£75m?

 

Suspect they’d probably have relegated us rather than given us a 4-5 point deduction.

[Dokko]

4 minutes ago, Bondedcrown said:

If you think finishing 5th after 38 games was sheer luck you need to get another team to support! Were we lucky to win the league also? 

 

Thought Liverpool won the league? Fair enough, better season than I thought.

 

Best go support another team now someone disagreed with me on the Internet. 

[Bondedcrown]

Just now, Dokko said:

 

Thought Liverpool won the league? Fair enough, better season than I thought.

 

Best go support another team now someone disagreed with me on the Internet. 

Cup! I will delight in picking up on all of your typing mistakes in future! Well your nowhere near a loyal Newcastle supporter! We all know that now!!!

[Dokko]

1 minute ago, SteV said:

So, breach PSR by something like ~£75m?

 

Suspect they’d probably have relegated us rather than given us a 4-5 point deduction.

 

Did I say breach? I said Chelsea style. Bend the system till it breaks. Sell a golden lifetime box, the women's team, a square patch of land on the training ground. Whatever it was, judt not selling 2 promising young players and miss out on another. 

[Dokko]

Just now, Bondedcrown said:

Cup! I will delight in picking up on all of your typing mistakes in future! Well your nowhere near a loyal Newcastle supporter! We all know that now!!!

Oh no. So many fucks given.