Nick Woltemade

[LFEE]

3 minutes ago, Elephant said:

I’ve said it before and will say it again. He’s much like Thomas Müller, who is absolutely brilliant player. Woltemade is either really useful and important to us or completely useless.

 

I want to see him longterm but we are not playing with our players strengths and Tonali is other prime example of that.

 

It’s not nice and motivating environment for players if fans turn so quickly against them.

Bit harsh on the fans in his case. They are clearly willing him to succeed Isak and erase the disappointment. They even sang his name for the assist for Barnes against Bournemouth. At some point though it’s up to him to start looking more dangerous and give defenders a harder game.

[midds]

Refuse to believe we scouted him expensively and dropped £70m on him without having an idea as to where he was going to play or how he would be involved in games. I get the fact he's a natural number 10 but if he's being picked as a central 9 then he's got to understand that he needs to be on the penalty spot or 6 yard box far more often. I know that's not his natural game an he wants to drop deep and create but either Howe or the coaching team need to be very specific about what his role needs to be for the team atm. He's a mint player and a great guy but for the time being he needs to curb his instincts and become a converter - there are plenty of balls coming into the box and he needs to start finishing a few of them off. 

 

That's not a pop at him specifically but I can't remember a more frustrating season watching us slog away at deep defences and create virtually nothing of note, it's happened a dozen times already at least, mostly away. It's just not clicking and sadly doesn't look like doing so unless Howe changes things up top

[Mikky]

3 hours ago, La Parka said:

The issue is the formation.. we literally create a void around him.

 

 

 

 

                 Wolte

 

 

Lw.                                 Rw

            Cm.  Cm Cm.                                       

 

 

 

 

 

And there is your nail hit on its head - that isn’t just a Big Nick issue - it’s a team issue - how are you supposed to create anything when you are locked into that formation. I always see Nick surrounded by 2 or 3 players - most often he’s fouled - he’s not getting you goals in that system - look at Germany, they surround Nick so he isn’t isolated and when they work at attack he’s in the box 

 

That formation isn’t going to get us many goals and provide us with any creative output - to make it worse it’s leaves us open to opposing players breaking the midfield line and running at our back line 

[TRon]

1 hour ago, gbandit said:

I think he’s got excellent feet, excellent vision and excellent weight of pass. I think he’s got major flaws in his movement in the box both in the air and on the ground and I think he plays far too deep all the time in the striker role. He is a very clean striker of the ball but his natural instincts are to take a touch. His lack of pace is an issue in the league especially.

 

Personally, I think he’s got the potential to be an absolutely amazing 10 and amazing 9. He’s still very early on in his development and yet we’ve seen some of those qualities already. What he needs is a lot of work on his movement and reading of where to position himself. This is all stuff that is training-oriented. His actual instinct technique and ability is amazing and he just needs the right coaching for it to develop further. I do think the pace is an issue but it can be mitigated with better quality on the wings by stretching teams more. 
 

Ideally, id like to see him play as a 10 but I think Howe will only want him as a 9 and he will get the coaching he needs to be a top 9

 

The problem with this is we don't play with a no 10. From what I've seen he doesn't have the physical strength or the pace to play as an out and out no.9 either. 

[McDog]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

The problem with this is we don't play with a no 10. From what I've seen he doesn't have the physical strength or the pace to play as an out and out no.9 either. 

 

 

Is he a 10 in Germany's setup?

[Conjo]

I don't think we utilize him correctly. He's basically a lanky Firminho. We should be able to accommodate him even in a 4-3-3.

When Woltemade plays I think our wingers should be higher up the pitch when defending rather than doubling up with the fullbacks, while Woltemade plays deeper. Easier to pass to his feet when we regain the ball, easier for him to play the wingers through on the counter.

When in established attack, our wingers needs to play more as forwards.  A little higher and more central while Woltemade drops deeper to receive the ball and arrive late into the box.

 

That's what I'd do on FM at least.

[TRon]

Just now, McDog said:

 

 

Is he a 10 in Germany's setup?

 

International football isn't the same as the PL where big CB's are climbing all over you. 

[Elephant]

14 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Bit harsh on the fans in his case. They are clearly willing him to succeed Isak and erase the disappointment. They even sang his name for the assist for Barnes against Bournemouth. At some point though it’s up to him to start looking more dangerous and give defenders a harder game.

You are right on that and I should have been more precisive what I meant. It was more that there are many vocal fans here and elsewhere against him and press in England is very harsh compared to Germany.

[Lotus]

4 minutes ago, Conjo said:

I don't think we utilize him correctly. He's basically a lanky Firminho. We should be able to accommodate him even in a 4-3-3.

When Woltemade plays I think our wingers should be higher up the pitch when defending rather than doubling up with the fullbacks, while Woltemade plays deeper. Easier to pass to his feet when we regain the ball, easier for him to play the wingers through on the counter.

When in established attack, our wingers needs to play more as forwards.  A little higher and more central while Woltemade drops deeper to receive the ball and arrive late into the box.

 

That's what I'd do on FM at least.

 

If our wide players offered a goal threat this would make sense.

 

I'd be up for Wissa cutting in from the left or right and Gordon or Elanga (for pace alone) cutting in from the other side.

 

Eddie has his reasons for not trying it though.

[Conjo]

Just now, Lotus said:

 

If our wide players offered a goal threat this would make sense.

 

I'd be up for Wissa cutting in from the left or right and Gordon or Elanga (for pace alone) cutting in from the other side.

 

Eddie has his reasons for not trying it though.

 

Fair. I certainly don't have the knowledge to say anything for certain, but I do think our wide players would offer a better goal threat if they weren't instructed to defend the edge of our box as soon as the ball passes our side of the midfield line.

[McDog]

15 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

International football isn't the same as the PL where big CB's are climbing all over you. 

 

 

That wasn't my question. I agree with your semi related point though.

[joeyt]

13 minutes ago, Lotus said:

 

If our wide players offered a goal threat this would make sense.

 

I'd be up for Wissa cutting in from the left or right and Gordon or Elanga (for pace alone) cutting in from the other side.

 

Eddie has his reasons for not trying it though.

 

You're missing our one wide man who actually scores goals?

[Keefaz]

It's a shame that he has to lead the line on his own. Hard enough work bedding into a new team and league. Crave the old days of striking partnerships in the mold of Shearer/Bellamy. Obviously Eddie knows what he's doing but I'd repeat the two up front experiment a few more times before giving it up. Shove them both in for PSV.

[Mikky]

23 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Is he a 10 in Germany's setup?

He was a 10 for the U21s

 

He then got called up to the senior team and played 9 - first few games they just bypassed him - they didn’t know how to play with him - Adeyemi is basically their version of our RW - then they changed personnel including him and played the likes of Wirtz and the two wingers closer to him - getting him more involved in the play and creating space for the likes of Gnabry (Harvey Barnes) to score more goals - they (Germany) also play higher up the pitch so it’s easier for Nick to get to the box 

 

We are freakishly similar to Germany tbh - our set up should be like theirs (4-2-3-1) with a high intensity build up 

 

 

Edited January 19 by Mikky

[SUPERTOON]

3 minutes ago, Mikky said:

He was a 10 for the U21s

 

He then got called up to the senior team and played 9 - first few games they just bypassed him - they didn’t know how to play with him - Adeyemi is basically their version of our RW - then they changed personnel including him and played the likes of Wirtz and the two wingers closer to him - getting him more involved in the play and creating space for the likes of Gnabry (Harvey Barnes) to score more goals - they (Germany) also play higher up the pitch so it’s easier for Nick to get to the box 

They also play really poor sides 99% of the time, so it’s hard to judge his performances for them.

[Mikky]

6 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

They also play really poor sides 99% of the time, so it’s hard to judge his performances for them.

But the point I am making is that they play closer to him and that’s how we should be playing, with the wingers higher up and slightly inwards  - the other alternatives are we play with 2 up top (which EH doesn’t like) or continue as we are with a gap between the team and Big Nick - and that’s not exactly worked 

[Nepharite]

Someone in the last couple of pages hit the nail on the head. We have a "Unicorn" of a striker and what has Eddie changed to accommodate for the loss of the rat and give Nick everything he needs to thrive... Nothing! The formation, the patterns of attack, the personnel, essentially the same as before, when we had a completely different striker up top. It's lazy as fuck!

 

What an opportunity to grow, evolve, and get better, being wasted.

[KingArthur]

He need Barnes to play on the left and Murphy or Elanga right. No use to have Gordon on the left because he doesn't do combinations. Wissa can ran offside when AG is dribbling.

[Lotus]

5 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

You're missing our one wide man who actually scores goals?

Was trying to be realistic.

[Jack14Bojangles]

7 hours ago, Mikky said:

He was a 10 for the U21s

 

He then got called up to the senior team and played 9 - first few games they just bypassed him - they didn’t know how to play with him - Adeyemi is basically their version of our RW - then they changed personnel including him and played the likes of Wirtz and the two wingers closer to him - getting him more involved in the play and creating space for the likes of Gnabry (Harvey Barnes) to score more goals - they (Germany) also play higher up the pitch so it’s easier for Nick to get to the box 

 

We are freakishly similar to Germany tbh - our set up should be like theirs (4-2-3-1) with a high intensity build up 

 

 

 

Perfect analysis.
You seem to have watched all the German national teams' matches.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Jack14Bojangles]

It's generally agreed that Woltemade is isolated in the current system and that there's a gap between the striker and midfield. Initially, he was able to mask this with his brilliance and unique goals. Now his form has dipped, and this problem has become apparent. What surprises me most is that the established striker Wissa is performing even worse than Woltemade in this situation. As long as Howe doesn't change the system, neither Woltemade nor Wissa will be able to fully convince.

[Mountain]

12 hours ago, Pixelphish said:

 

This is where I'm at. He's so unique it's up to the coaching team to make it work.

 

Correct.

[Mountain]

7 hours ago, Nepharite said:

Someone in the last couple of pages hit the nail on the head. We have a "Unicorn" of a striker and what has Eddie changed to accommodate for the loss of the rat and give Nick everything he needs to thrive... Nothing! The formation, the patterns of attack, the personnel, essentially the same as before, when we had a completely different striker up top. It's lazy as fuck!

 

What an opportunity to grow, evolve, and get better, being wasted.

 

Correct.

[Infinitely Content]

Regarding shaping the team to suit him, I agree, but there's only so far that can go imo. I struggle to recall a striker who is both slow and physically weak make it in this league, especially nowadays as the physicality of the league has only increased. He's never going to be quick, so he needs a Joelinton-esque transformation in physicality imo. I don't think it's reasonable to expect us to always have players close to him, there's moments for all strikers where they're alone and either need to protect the ball better or use their skill and speed to beat defenders (Isak). He's not going to do the latter, so he needs to learn to protect the ball, and needs to be stronger to do so.

[Mountain]

31 minutes ago, Infinitely Content said:

Regarding shaping the team to suit him, I agree, but there's only so far that can go imo. I struggle to recall a striker who is both slow and physically weak make it in this league, especially nowadays as the physicality of the league has only increased. He's never going to be quick, so he needs a Joelinton-esque transformation in physicality imo. I don't think it's reasonable to expect us to always have players close to him, there's moments for all strikers where they're alone and either need to protect the ball better or use their skill and speed to beat defenders (Isak). He's not going to do the latter, so he needs to learn to protect the ball, and needs to be stronger to do so.

 

 

I think he can bulk up, he's still young, I also think you are correct on your points.

 

But I do believe he can do that and I also believe we are misusing him.