Football pet hates

[Stifler]

Today after the match there were a kid of Man Utd fans (a lot of them appearing to be students, and I doubt actually went to the game) just standing outside the main entrance underneath the Milburn stand at full time. They were standing in inconviant places and not just in a line behind the security barriers. As a result this caused a huge hold up for fans leaving the ground as only 1 or 2 could squeeze past them at a time. This isn’t the first time fans have sat outside for autographs after a match, but it’s often just a couple who don’t get in the way. This time it was a real problem and the stewards were just standing there. I think in future he club needs to organise this better. There is enough time between the match ending and the players leaving the ground for those fans to be held elsewhere out of the way instead of getting in the way of a huge crowd.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

Garth Crook's and his team of the week 

[1964]

The protection of media darlings Kane and Alli despite the fact that they dive repeatedly and win penalties vs the rest of the league who either don't get them or get hammered for clear dives

[steve_69]

The protection of media darlings Kane and Alli despite the fact that they dive repeatedly and win penalties vs the rest of the league who either don't get them or get hammered for clear dives

 

I agree with this completely. It's staggering how blinkered some people can be.  Exceptional talents, yes. Blatant cheats, absolutely. Just because they're English shouldn't excuse them from being criticised for cheating, particularly Harry Kane.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

Out of interest - if the media are protecting Kane and Alli, who exactly aren't they protecting?

 

To be honest I'm not the slightest bit bothered about Kane, Alli etc. 'diving' or 'cheating'. Not impressed with Smalling taking a tumble yesterday, Alli, or whoever - it's a bit ridiculous, but can appreciate what their trying to do. They get booked, and shown up on TV to be a tit - leave it at that.

 

I'm of the firm opinion that if a defender or goalkeeper is putting themselves in the situation that they can be taken advantage, basically by not convincingly winning the ball - it's fair game if the forward finds contact and gets a foul. Surely it's the evolution of the game, leading from an offensive sense. Defenders and goalkeepers  especially need to evolve in how they defend when they know there is a risk of giving away contact without getting the ball. 

 

It's not like it's been going on for decades either. 10 years ago, without 24 hour news coverage on football, nobody worried nor cared about who would win a penalty at the weekend. You'd see it a couple of times highlighted on Match of the Day, probably concede the fact that Bellamy (for example) went down a bit easy against whatever mid 00s goalkeeper (Schwarzer), won a penalty. That was it.

 

 

 

[1964]

Out of interest - if the media are protecting Kane and Alli, who exactly aren't they protecting?

 

To be honest I'm not the slightest bit bothered about Kane, Alli etc. 'diving' or 'cheating'. Not impressed with Smalling taking a tumble yesterday, Alli, or whoever - it's a bit ridiculous, but can appreciate what their trying to do. They get booked, and shown up on TV to be a tit - leave it at that.

 

I'm of the firm opinion that if a defender or goalkeeper is putting themselves in the situation that they can be taken advantage, basically by not convincingly winning the ball - it's fair game if the forward finds contact and gets a foul. Surely it's the evolution of the game, leading from an offensive sense. Defenders and goalkeepers  especially need to evolve in how they defend when they know there is a risk of giving away contact without getting the ball. 

 

It's not like it's been going on for decades either. 10 years ago, without 24 hour news coverage on football, nobody worried nor cared about who would win a penalty at the weekend. You'd see it a couple of times highlighted on Match of the Day, probably concede the fact that Bellamy (for example) went down a bit easy against whatever mid 00s goalkeeper (Schwarzer), won a penalty. That was it.

 

 

 

 

Because it makes a mockery of the game, some players are better at engineering a foul than others.  Vardy, Kane, Alli, Sturridge are all fine exponents of throwing a leg toward a defender, diving and winning penalties.  Often the defender has done nothing wrong so following your argument they would not be able to go within a metre of the attacker as it might result in a penalty.  Defending is a skill that should not include a 'beware of the cheat' warning. That to me is not what football is about and it shouldn't be considered a virtue that you can 'win' penalties.

 

Its cheating, some get dug out for it, others get praised for it.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Happinesstan]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down.

 

Exploit the sensitivity of the baldy fella.

 

[steve_69]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? It's part of the game that's disappearing - strikers would much rather take a tumble, try to win a penalty and attempt to get the keeper sent off at the same time. Sportsmanship has been completely eradicated from the game by cynical cheats and that's a very sad feature of the modern game.

Just because cheating is now accepted at an institutional level doesn't make it right, and the game is a lesser spectacle for it.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? It's part of the game that's disappearing - strikers would much rather take a tumble, try to win a penalty and attempt to get the keeper sent off at the same time. Sportsmanship has been completely eradicated from the game by cynical cheats and that's a very sad feature of the modern game.

Just because cheating is now accepted at an institutional level doesn't make it right, and the game is a lesser spectacle for it.

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? - Happens all the time, as does forwards being fouled and brought down. Sadly, the latter and the resulting coverage and discussion over a refereeing descion will always gather more media coverage than a 'simple goal'.

 

When was the last time you saw a foul committed in the box, advantage offered, but play brought back. Until referees apply the same logic to the rules in the box as anywhere else on the pitch, strikers will always have to go out of the way to win penalties.

 

'Cheating' has existed in football for god knows how long, I just don't understand the sudden turn of attention onto this subject. It's just become such as a mass media agenda to fuel incidents that have always been taking place in the game. But now, because it's a focus, it's all of a sudden become such a deplorable act. Really don't think it's such a big thing anywhere else than in England or Scotland either.   

 

Liverpool Tottenham last night was a fantastic game, but all the coverage was spent on talking about refereeing decisions, and whether Kane dived or not. Little or no coverage was made on any other area of the game, how well certain players played, how the game was won or lost.

[steve_69]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? It's part of the game that's disappearing - strikers would much rather take a tumble, try to win a penalty and attempt to get the keeper sent off at the same time. Sportsmanship has been completely eradicated from the game by cynical cheats and that's a very sad feature of the modern game.

Just because cheating is now accepted at an institutional level doesn't make it right, and the game is a lesser spectacle for it.

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? - Happens all the time, as does forwards being fouled and brought down. Sadly, the latter and the resulting coverage and discussion over a refereeing descion will always gather more media coverage than a 'simple goal'.

 

When was the last time you saw a foul committed in the box, advantage offered, but play brought back. Until referees apply the same logic to the rules in the box as anywhere else on the pitch, strikers will always have to go out of the way to win penalties.

 

'Cheating' has existed in football for god knows how long, I just don't understand the sudden turn of attention onto this subject. It's just become such as a mass media agenda to fuel incidents that have always been taking place in the game. But now, because it's a focus, it's all of a sudden become such a deplorable act. Really don't think it's such a big thing anywhere else than in England or Scotland either.   

 

Liverpool Tottenham last night was a fantastic game, but all the coverage was spent on talking about refereeing decisions, and whether Kane dived or not. Little or no coverage was made on any other area of the game, how well certain players played, how the game was won or lost.

 

Specifically I was asking when the last time you saw a player vault or round a keeper was, as opposed to throwing himself on the ground like a small child?

It rarely happens these days.

 

As far as i'm concerned any player who chooses to go to ground, whether he's been touched or not, is diving/cheating. The whole 'he was touched so he had a right to go down' line is utter bullshit! That's never been what football is about and it has damaged the game beyond repair. Unfortunately the FA and the referees union are complicit so it has basically become an accepted part of the game for a lot of people. At the risk of sounding like an old fucker though, those of us who remember football as a true contact sport and have seen players who had mastered the real art of defending see the modern game as a very poor alternative.

 

Just because cheating has become mainstream doesn't make it acceptable. There has always been cynicism in football and 'the dark arts' as pundits choose to call them, but there's no subtlety to it now and absolute no sportsmanship whatsoever. It's just a bunch of fannies throwing themselves on the ground in the hope of getting a fellow pro booked or even better, sent off. 

 

That's not football mate, not even close.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

Smalling yesterday overran the ball and ended up throwing himself to the ground, and looked like a right fanny doing so. He took a risk in that situation, it didn't pay off, and was rightly booked. That's that.

 

Shelvey was smart enough to see it coming and exploited Smalling's weakness he'd given up. Equally so, Shelvey could have been daft enough to stick a foot in, allowing Smalling to win a foul and exploit his weakness given up. Fouls are won all the time like that. When teams are running down the clock, running down the by line, a winger will knock the ball past a player knowing that the full back will foul him. 

 

If I'm a manager, and Shelvey gives away a foul, I'm going to be frustrated at him for being stupid enough to be sold like that. Cortouis coming out last week after the Watford match and moaning about the penalty decision was an embarrassment. Defend your goal better and don't dive at a players feet. What on earth was he expecting, complete naivety.

 

Defenders and goalkeepers on the whole need to wise up and stop putting themselves in these sorts of situations. Whenever a player has 'won contact' it inevitably comes from a defender making an error in judgement.

 

On the point of there being no sportsmanship - that's a slightly rose tinted view. A very easy thing to say as well. Plenty of nefarious business happened before Sky Sports News came along. Would say more so. You can't be telling me that Harry Kane winning penalties from silly arse defending is any worse than Billy Whitehurst punching, kicking and elbowing defenders every Saturday.

 

[1964]

Every keeper, defender, midfielder and striker puts themselves at risk of fouling a player every time they take to the pitch.  If your argument is why should they go out of their way to avoid an opponent then extrapolate that across the 90 minutes. 

 

Imagine a game where no one tries to avoid an opponent, it would be ridiculous.  If you condone an attacker 'winning' a penalty by deliberately running into an opponent then would that be a free kick anywhere on the pitch? 

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

Every keeper, defender, midfielder and striker puts themselves at risk of fouling a player every time they take to the pitch.  If your argument is why should they go out of their way to avoid an opponent then extrapolate that across the 90 minutes. 

 

Imagine a game where no one tries to avoid an opponent, it would be ridiculous.  If you condone an attacker 'winning' a penalty by deliberately running into an opponent then would that be a free kick anywhere on the pitch? 

 

To a certain extent that's what has happened to football. The continued evolution of how teams defend has seen teams favouring interceptions, and favourable tackling situations through sophisticated pressing of certain areas and players. What you're saying is itself quite ridiculous, and dragging any point I've made widely out of context.

 

Situations anywhere else on the pitch, outside the penalty area rarely arise whereby a player is at their very limits whereby they would need to go down from contact. Rarely you'll see exact actions of a goalkeeper and forward nudging the ball past them, from any two players on the pitch. When, and if you do, and a player slides in it's often deemed that the player is out of control and a free-kick is awarded.

 

 

[steve_69]

Smalling yesterday overran the ball and ended up throwing himself to the ground, and looked like a right fanny doing so. He took a risk in that situation, it didn't pay off, and was rightly booked. That's that.

 

Shelvey was smart enough to see it coming and exploited Smalling's weakness he'd given up. Equally so, Shelvey could have been daft enough to stick a foot in, allowing Smalling to win a foul and exploit his weakness given up. Fouls are won all the time like that. When teams are running down the clock, running down the by line, a winger will knock the ball past a player knowing that the full back will foul him. 

 

If I'm a manager, and Shelvey gives away a foul, I'm going to be frustrated at him for being stupid enough to be sold like that. Cortouis coming out last week after the Watford match and moaning about the penalty decision was an embarrassment. Defend your goal better and don't dive at a players feet. What on earth was he expecting, complete naivety.

 

Defenders and goalkeepers on the whole need to wise up and stop putting themselves in these sorts of situations. Whenever a player has 'won contact' it inevitably comes from a defender making an error in judgement.

 

On the point of there being no sportsmanship - that's a slightly rose tinted view. A very easy thing to say as well. Plenty of nefarious business happened before Sky Sports News came along. Would say more so. You can't be telling me that Harry Kane winning penalties from silly arse defending is any worse than Billy Whitehurst punching, kicking and elbowing defenders every Saturday.

 

 

I get how it all works mate, it's just a load of s*** and is ruining the game. Every time a player is challenged he should ask himself 'if my life depended on it, could i stay on my feet?'. If the answer is yes, stay on your f***ing feet and get on with the game. If the challenging player takes you down, it's a foul. That's how the game used to be played and there was nothing wrong with it.

And with regards to your comment about keepers not diving at players' feet, that's what keepers have always done. It's brave goalkeeping and part of the art of being a good goalkeeper. The fact that opposing players these days throw themselves to the ground to try and win a penalty whether you got your hands to the ball or not, instead of allowing you to take the plaudits for a good piece of keeping is quite frankly disgusting, but that's the way the game has gone.

Half the time these players nick the ball past the keeper and the f***ing thing is going out of play, so instead of admitting their poor touch they throw themselves on the ground. It's absolutely pathetic!  That's something the refs should take into account but again, they don't.

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

The cheapening of the F.A Cup across the board. Presenters and pundits talk about it not being seen as important, then they're missing when it's F.A Cup weekend and we're having to watch a MOTD line up of Gabby Logan with the last pick pundits and the shittest commentators going. The whole thing feels like watching The Championship with Manish.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Bet their houses are tips.

Just accidentally browsed this thread (SATURDAY NIGHT!) and this has got me creased again.

[Interpolic]

That whole Beautiful South convo is enjoyable to read again.

[54]

The Premier League app sending 7 individual notifications for the postponed games due to the FA Cup.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The flawed assertion that Arsenal fans can't complain because there are teams worse off, completely ignoring that there's a scale and it's about upholding standards.

[HaydnNUFC]

The flawed assertion that Arsenal fans can't complain because there are teams worse off, completely ignoring that there's a scale and it's about upholding standards.

[Stifler]

The flawed assertion that Arsenal fans can't complain because there are teams worse off, completely ignoring that there's a scale and it's about upholding standards.

It’s not about them complaining. A lot of them claim that they have won nothing for years and that they should be winning the league. When you point out to them that they have won the FA Cup 3 times in 4 years recently they dismiss this from being a real trophy or symbol of success. Also I get the point that they feel that they have recently won the title so should be able to compete with it, but the argument is never about competing, it’s about how they are owed a league title.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that a lot of that is strawman and numpties rather than the majority. Arsenal should absolutely be competing for the title, like. They've gone backwards and backwards and backwards. When they're top 10 should they not complain about no longer being in the Europa because they're not threatened by relegation?

 

Honestly, after the Pardew years of being told that we were 'where we should be' and being called 'deluded' for wanting more, you'd think football fans in general would take their own experiences into account and learn something.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

The whole 'big club' guff bores me to tears. Dozens of clubs in the country can justify themselves to be a big club - we've won this, we've won that, we've a big stadium, we've history etc. etc. All that is ultimately vacuous nonsense that somehow deludes fans, managers and owners into thinking that they have a right to achieve something, and football somehow owes them success.

 

Arsenal fans shouldn't be expecting to win the league or even compete for it in all honesty. Football is a forever changing landscape, and along with that expectation also has to change. The club has been left miles behind from their previous contemporaries, and inevitably been caught up by the investment into Chelsea and Man City, and again left in the dust by them. Most worryingly for them and have even been overtaken by Spurs - previously the perennial middling PL side.

 

On the most basic of levels, for 12 years, since Viera left - good players have left the club, and not been replaced with equal or higher quality. In football if you're standing still, you're going backwards. Simple fact is, Arsenal haven't even been standing still.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Arsenal are a huge club and while as an NUFC fan you could argue winning a few cups and finishing in the top 4 or 6 is the holy grail, for a club like Arsenal it should always be about trying to win the title and anything else considered a failure. My brother in law is a Gooner and wants Wenger out and I’d never say to him you’re spoilt because it’s about different expectations and standards. Arsenal have underachieved for over a decade and if I was a Gooner I’d say what is happening is unacceptable 100%. They have been overtaken by everyone, including Spurs, in that top echelon of big or super clubs. Obviously Man City and Chelsea have been helped massively thanks to a sugar daddy really, but it’s not like Arsenal can’t compete for wages and transfer fees as they can. It’s because Wenger keeps buying crap or the wrong players. Again there is nowt wrong with his philosophy which isn’t too off of Pep’s, but when you buy as poorly as he has over the last decade then you will struggle to challenge. Give him Pep’s team and he’d win the league IMO with that City side. His Arsenal side though lacks zero leaders, has too many similar players and mentally they are as weak as piss. No spine to the side either. A far cry from the side that went unbeaten and won the title at OT. Cup wins satisfy the record books, but not fans when they are used to winning the league or at least competing for it especially when they pay some of the highest ticket prices and see players being signed for over 50m plus. It’s just not good enough and their football has deteriorated massively. Their current squad is poor and needs major work done. They have let the wrong players go in Giroud, Sanchez and Walcott for example. PEA and the French striker are both good players but look totally out of place at Arsenal as things stand and to give Ozil a new contract... my brother in law was fuming with that one. Wilshere is probably their best player and he was at Bournemouth on loan last season. Wenger has to go and they need the Russian to oust the Yank.