St James' Park

[sushimonster85]

56 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Quite rightly they're probably waiting to have the right structure and people in place before announcing future plans. The recruitment in January shows you how threadbare we are as an organisation.

 

There is so much work for them to do after the neglect of the Ashley years. I'm not one of those who thinks they should prioritise one area over another, for example the training ground before the ground. With the right people in place we can develop multiple areas simultaneously.

 

Is also important to consider the different stakeholders we have to build relationships with to finalise our plans. All of that takes time.

 

Totally agree with this. I feel like people shouldn't get too excited just yet about what plans they may have for St James'/new stadium. They're still actually staffing up, which is no small job in itself, don't forget whilst Ashworth may be on the way, we're still waiting on a chief exec. Nothing will happen until all that is in place. I had to guess, I reckon the summer/early next season we will start to get wind of the plans for the new training complex, and it won't be till the end of next season that they put forward a plan for expansion/new ground. Both of these are massive projects. Training complex is more straight forward as once they have a site its all about building from scratch. Any ground expansion is going to take a lot of work... and cash. 

[macphisto]

Two other very important things to consider.  I would hate to see fans, particularly young fans, prevented from attending the match like the Keegan years. We almost lost a young generation of fans for a few years under Keegan. Why would we do that to ourselves as a club if there is the option (we don't know PIF's plans) to accommodate them in the future either through expansion or building a new ground? 

 

My last point is that we talk about this being a sport washing exercise for Saudi Arabia but in many ways it applies to the region to. This could put the city/region on the map and attract investment in the region like we haven't seen before. 

[macphisto]

5 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

Totally agree with this. I feel like people shouldn't get too excited just yet about what plans they may have for St James'/new stadium. They're still actually staffing up, which is no small job in itself, don't forget whilst Ashworth may be on the way, we're still waiting on a chief exec. Nothing will happen until all that is in place. I had to guess, I reckon the summer/early next season we will start to get wind of the plans for the new training complex, and it won't be till the end of next season that they put forward a plan for expansion/new ground. Both of these are massive projects. Training complex is more straight forward as once they have a site its all about building from scratch. Any ground expansion is going to take a lot of work... and cash. 

Your timeline is probably right. Regarding the stadium, we'd need to work very closely with the council on any plans and that in itself would take time.

[STM]

The stadium is our crown jewel. Even recently you have heard loads of pundits talk about the atmosphere and feel around the place, the stadium and its aura plays a massive part to this.

 

1. Expand St James in some way, even to just 60k.

2. Rebuild on existing site somehow.

3. New stadium in leazes park

4. Another city centre location

 

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of it being moved to KP or Gosforth or whatever.

 

Right now, I'd be happy to see a few upgrades, even without more seats. This is what I would do:

 

1. Replace all seats for black ones (grey ones starting to look dirty) Matt black would look ace IMO

2. Replace the gallowgate/east stand roof, so that it matches the rest.

3. Re-paint any grey area of the ground, I quite like what MA did with the brickwork at the front.

4. Change the East stand lettering to gold to match the "Newcastle United" lettering down by SBRs statue.

5. Revamp the dugouts

6. Revamp the corporate boxes (they are an eye sore)

7. Move the big screen or get rid.

8. Completely repaint the concourses, with big screens, artwork etc all the way around.

9. Build new kiosks, with those "4 at a time beer pumps".

10. New/cleaner toilets

11. Get a local catering company to do the bait and get some proper lush scran.

 

I could go on forever but all of this should be a priority over a new stadium IMO.

 

[Yorkie]

2 minutes ago, STM said:

The stadium is our crown jewel. Even recently you have heard loads of pundits talk about the atmosphere and feel around the place, the stadium and its aura plays a massive part to this.

 

1. Expand St James in some way, even to just 60k.

2. Rebuild on existing site somehow.

3. New stadium in leazes park

4. Another city centre location

 

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of it being moved to KP or Gosforth or whatever.

 

Right now, I'd be happy to see a few upgrades, even without more seats. This is what I would do:

 

1. Replace all seats for black ones (grey ones starting to look dirty) Matt black would look ace IMO

2. Replace the gallowgate/east stand roof, so that it matches the rest.

3. Re-paint any grey area of the ground, I quite like what MA did with the brickwork at the front.

4. Change the East stand lettering to gold to match the "Newcastle United" lettering down by SBRs statue.

5. Revamp the dugouts

6. Revamp the corporate boxes (they are an eye sore)

7. Move the big screen or get rid.

8. Completely repaint the concourses, with big screens, artwork etc all the way around.

9. Build new kiosks, with those "4 at a time beer pumps".

10. New/cleaner toilets

11. Get a local catering company to do the bait and get some proper lush scran.

 

I could go on forever but all of this should be a priority over a new stadium IMO.

 

 

Absolutely. We've already got the shell of an elite stadium. 

[STM]

I haven't been to the Emirates or Spurs new stadium but for me they look entirely soulless. Seats look comfy though.

[Guest HTT II]

10 minutes ago, STM said:

I haven't been to the Emirates or Spurs new stadium but for me they look entirely soulless. Seats look comfy though.

The Emirates is the best stadium I’ve been too, and the atmosphere was amazing, mind they were playing Spurs..

[macphisto]

6 minutes ago, HTT II said:

The Emirates is the best stadium I’ve been too, and the atmosphere was amazing, mind they were playing Spurs..

Good to hear that about the Emirates. As has been pointed out though, can we really use Arsenal's move as a barometer? Highbury was hardly jumping. Interesting insights regarding the atmosphere at the new stadium on page 12 of this survey by Spurs fans. It seems like the atmosphere is more affected by the actions of the board than the new stadium.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by macphisto

[Bompeter]

”we almost lost a young generation of fans for a few years under Keegan” <- has a less true thing ever been said on here? Just a complete inversion of reality.
 

[pedro111]

I'm unsure as to whether we can pull the size of crowds some on here think we can. You talk about Man City sharing a city but Greater Manchester is about two and a half times the size of Tyne and Wear which we share with another team also. 60-65k with a winning team, sure. Anything beyond that I'm not convinced.

[LFEE]

 

[Karjala]

5 minutes ago, LFEE said:

 

That Gallowgate End Extension Facebook page made that and a few others a couple of years back. ?

[Vedder]

Definitely the best way to proceed. The company who was going to develop the land where the metro station is has gone bust. We might be able to get the land back relatively cheap!

[Karjala]

I wonder how much of that land would even be needed? Looks like if you built it over the top of the road it'd be enough - could probably still have the road running under the stand.

[Lush Vlad]

Has the club released anything about safe standing and our plans for it? 

[macphisto]

14 minutes ago, Bompeter said:

”we almost lost a young generation of fans for a few years under Keegan” <- has a less true thing ever been said on here? Just a complete inversion of reality.
 

Were you around then? I'll speak from personal experience that will resonate with a lot of people of a similar age. Maybe lost a generation was the wrong wording more like locked a generation of fans out of the ground.

 

I grew up in Walker and like most teenagers in the early 1990s I used to attend matches with my mates, say half to a third of games; pay on the door. Mostly stood in the Corner but sometimes went in the Scoreboard or Leazes end. We all used to take sing about the East Stand and their flasks being quiet as they used to sit, be full of old people and season ticket holders. I was there for Keegan's first match back, not particularly for Keegan, but mainly we had probably arranged to just go that day. Not long after Keegan returned within a season or two the stadium went practically all season ticket. Me and my mates were locked out. Yes we could get a few spare tickets every now and again but we couldn't go as a group like we used to and have the same craic. 

 

I have not attended a match in the last 10 years but I imagine a lot of teenagers in groups, particularly those from less well-off areas, have been able to attend matches similar to how I did when I was younger due to the availability of tickets.  I guarantee those type of fans will soon be locked out as more and more people buy season tickets. How many groups of teenagers will organise themselves and be able to afford a season ticket all at the same time?

 

There's been a lot of talk about the atmosphere of the stadium, I guarantee that anything like the demand of the Keegan era would progressively see the atmosphere go down hill after the first few years. That is what happened prior to Ashley. It wasn't so much apathy but the crowd got progressively old together and any youngsters attending were often there with their parents. Not many groups of teenagers were able to attend games from Keegan to the beginning of Ashley's ownership, the very group who help generate an atmosphere. That is what happens with stadiums that are nearly all season ticket holders; young groups of fans are priced out.

 

Anyone who attended the latter years of the Hall/Shepard era will know that the atmosphere in the ground was terrible as we had an aging crowd with very few younger fans. I mention the East Stand above, by the end of the Hall/Shepard era that is almost what the whole ground was like. There is no more sure way to kill the atmosphere of a ground than it to be full of season ticket holders which is what would happen if we can only expand to 60,000 in our current stadium. 

 

Hopefully we can expand further in the current stadium but if not then move elsewhere within the city centre.

[macphisto]

47 minutes ago, pedro111 said:

I'm unsure as to whether we can pull the size of crowds some on here think we can. You talk about Man City sharing a city but Greater Manchester is about two and a half times the size of Tyne and Wear which we share with another team also. 60-65k with a winning team, sure. Anything beyond that I'm not convinced.

It's not just Tyne & Wear though, we are the only team from the Scottish borders to Sunderland. Based on a quick Google, Northumberland and Tyne & Wear combined is almost 1.5 million people. Yes the North West has a much larger population but they also have a lot more football teams.

[Kid Icarus]

I was around then as a kid. The idea that we almost almost lost a generation of kids under Keegan is probably the most revisionist thing I've ever read on here like.

[macphisto]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I was around then as a kid. The idea that we almost almost lost a generation of kids under Keegan is probably the most revisionist thing I've ever read on here like.

Are you saying the age profile of our crowd didn't significantly increase under Keegan and that there were still large groups of teenagers attending games? 

[Dr Venkman]

7 minutes ago, macphisto said:

It's not just Tyne & Wear though, we are the only team from the Scottish borders to Sunderland. Based on a quick Google, Northumberland and Tyne & Wear combined is almost 1.5 million people. Yes the North West has a much larger population but they also have a lot more football teams.

Loads of Irish at games recently.

[nufcjb]

1 hour ago, LFEE said:

 

Tell me what's stopping this from happening?

[Wallsendmag]

24 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Were you around then? I'll speak from personal experience that will resonate with a lot of people of a similar age. Maybe lost a generation was the wrong wording more like locked a generation of fans out of the ground.

 

I grew up in Walker and like most teenagers in the early 1990s I used to attend matches with my mates, say half to a third of games; pay on the door. Mostly stood in the Corner but sometimes went in the Scoreboard or Leazes end. We all used to take sing about the East Stand and their flasks being quiet as they used to sit, be full of old people and season ticket holders. I was there for Keegan's first match back, not particularly for Keegan, but mainly we had probably arranged to just go that day. Not long after Keegan returned within a season or two the stadium went practically all season ticket. Me and my mates were locked out. Yes we could get a few spare tickets every now and again but we couldn't go as a group like we used to and have the same craic. 

 

I have not attended a match in the last 10 years but I imagine a lot of teenagers in groups, particularly those from less well-off areas, have been able to attend matches similar to how I did when I was younger due to the availability of tickets.  I guarantee those type of fans will soon be locked out as more and more people buy season tickets. How many groups of teenagers will organise themselves and be able to afford a season ticket all at the same time?

 

There's been a lot of talk about the atmosphere of the stadium, I guarantee that anything like the demand of the Keegan era would progressively see the atmosphere go down hill after the first few years. That is what happened prior to Ashley. It wasn't so much apathy but the crowd got progressively old together and any youngsters attending were often there with their parents. Not many groups of teenagers were able to attend games from Keegan to the beginning of Ashley's ownership, the very group who help generate an atmosphere. That is what happens with stadiums that are nearly all season ticket holders; young groups of fans are priced out.

 

Anyone who attended the latter years of the Hall/Shepard era will know that the atmosphere in the ground was terrible as we had an aging crowd with very few younger fans. I mention the East Stand above, by the end of the Hall/Shepard era that is almost what the whole ground was like. There is no more sure way to kill the atmosphere of a ground than it to be full of season ticket holders which is what would happen if we can only expand to 60,000 in our current stadium. 

 

Hopefully we can expand further in the current stadium but if not then move elsewhere within the city centre.

 

Great post and something I noticed at the time as well. In fact it was all too obvious.

[LFEE]

4 minutes ago, nufcjb said:

Tell me what's stopping this from happening?

Probably overall cost for the sake of 7k seats. Might be better cost effective options growing or moving the stadium as a whole.

[macphisto]

4 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Great post and something I noticed at the time as well. In fact it was all too obvious.

Thank you, maybe my wording in my original post wasn't the best but I didn't think I had said anything contentious or even up for debate. I thought it was accepted by all that's what happened.

[sixx]

Leaving aside me being a fan and speaking as an urban planner and a non Newcastle resident - SJP is unique in most every sense. I can’t belive this is even being discussed. It’s a defining monument for the city itself and the club. How it’s weaved into the fabric of the city and rests so beautifully on a hilltop visible from everywhere - from the outside looking in, this is almost unbeatable. It really gives a sense of what NUFC means to the community and the city in general. It should be a core tenet of the club and the city moving forward.