Toon1892 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 11 hours ago, huss9 said: how do you know its not going to be feasibly built? and which stadiums have been feasibly built? In order for it to be feasibly built they’d need to assess payback/ ROI. Which stadium hasn’t been built using ROI analysis (payback)? All new pl stadium builds would have had to be assessed and therefore they were found to be feasibly built. It’s not just as easy as saying the Saudi’s won’t care about payback. Given the rules the Saudi’s will very much care about payback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, Toon1892 said: In order for it to be feasibly built they’d need to assess payback/ ROI. Which stadium hasn’t been built using ROI analysis (payback)? All new pl stadium builds would have had to be assessed and therefore they were found to be feasibly built. It’s not just as easy as saying the Saudi’s won’t care about payback. Given the rules the Saudi’s will very much care about payback. It’s more about how much a new stadium will increase the value of the actual club, a lot of people focus on annual P&L but investors in football clubs at this moment are more interested in valuation and how it can be increased. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon1892 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 13 minutes ago, r0cafella said: It’s more about how much a new stadium will increase the value of the actual club, a lot of people focus on annual P&L but investors in football clubs at this moment are more interested in valuation and how it can be increased. Not really. The value of the club will only increase if the debt on the balance sheet has a realistic ROI. If a balance sheet has huge debt in relation to a stadium that does not generate enough profit to pay back that debt the the value of the club will not increase. If the PL determine the new stadium build is not ‘feasible’ that cost/ depreciation on the build would not be an exempt cost for FFP/ PSR spending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novocastrian Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Just slapping an extra tier on the Gallowgate and tarting up the East Stand would seem like an opportunity lost but do we really believe PIF are going to invest upwards of a billion quid for a state of the art stadium? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 11 minutes ago, Novocastrian said: Just slapping an extra tier on the Gallowgate and tarting up the East Stand would seem like an opportunity lost but do we really believe PIF are going to invest upwards of a billion quid for a state of the art stadium? Do you think that's all it will be ? The Stack is temporary and they own that land, could it be a 7 day use facility of which match day use and capacity is only part of it. Shepherd/Halls idea of a casino/hotel adjoining the stand idea may be nearer the mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 18 minutes ago, Novocastrian said: Just slapping an extra tier on the Gallowgate and tarting up the East Stand would seem like an opportunity lost but do we really believe PIF are going to invest upwards of a billion quid for a state of the art stadium? Even doing that won't leave too much change from half a billion. Might as.well go the whole hog and sit on the investment for the 40/50 years it'll take to pay for itself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 hour ago, Thumbheed said: I get the sense they're looking to have it fitter for bigger events and will pull in revenue that way as well and tbf +15% of say 400m revenue is a decent chunk of money. Every bit counts and I'm not saying a stadium expansion or new stadium isn't worthwile, but it probably isn't going to be the differnce between us breaking into the top tier finacially or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 56 minutes ago, Novocastrian said: Just slapping an extra tier on the Gallowgate and tarting up the East Stand would seem like an opportunity lost but do we really believe PIF are going to invest upwards of a billion quid for a state of the art stadium? They spent £1 billion + £300 million to get their hands on us. So yes I can see them building a state of art stadium to replace SJP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novocastrian Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 hour ago, LFEE said: They spent £1 billion + £300 million to get their hands on us. So yes I can see them building a state of art stadium to replace SJP. I hope so because it would be spectacular, I’m just wondering where their thinking is. A total rebuild on the same site or an extension to Gallowgate and a clever re-design of the East Stand to take us to 60k+. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I still think an expansion could be 'state of the art' if done in phases. Strawberry Place has already had huge mix used developments approved on it in the past as we all know. If you can get over the Metro issue then you could do a pretty significant cohesive development including a East Stand/Gallowgate rebuild across that whole area which included numerous money making elements for the club (hotel, conference facilities, expanded club shop, museum etc). You eventually then get round to rebuilding or re-developing the Milburn and Leazes to cohesively join it all together. The only issue would be how lopsided it could look in the interim - but it's hardly cohesive at the moment anyway. You're probably limited to an absolute maximum of 65k too even if you got really creative with the rebuilds - but I still think that would be enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Just now, ponsaelius said: I still think an expansion could be 'state of the art' if done in phases. Strawberry Place has already had huge mix used developments approved on it in the past as we all know. If you can get over the Metro issue then you could do a pretty significant cohesive development including a East Stand/Gallowgate rebuild across that whole area which included numerous money making elements for the club (hotel, conference facilities, expanded club shop, museum etc). You eventually then get round to rebuilding or re-developing the Milburn and Leazes to cohesively join it all together. The only issue would be how lopsided it could look in the interim - but it's hardly cohesive at the moment anyway. You're probably limited to an absolute maximum of 65k too even if you got really creative with the rebuilds - but I still think that would be enough. Very surprised you think 65k is enough. You’d be basically back at square one once built so no room for growth at all without raising ticket prices year in year out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 minutes ago, LFEE said: Very surprised you think 65k is enough. You’d be basically back at square one once built so no room for growth at all without raising ticket prices year in year out. Can you only grow through capacity ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Just now, LFEE said: Very surprised you think 65k is enough. You’d be basically back at square one once built so no room for growth at all without raising ticket prices year in year out. I think there's a sweet spot to capacity of any European club in terms of demand/atmosphere and somewhere between 60-70k is probably about it IMO. I don't think demand is insatiable/endless. There's only a handful in Europe bigger, and most of them are actual or de-facto national stadia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 25 minutes ago, madras said: Can you only grow through capacity ? No like I said they can keep increasing current prices… Yes there are other areas of growth but no point capping the obvious one immediately and the one thats the biggest to the fan also. What kept us in the conversation for many years was the fact we always had the 2nd biggest stadium in the English football. Was a great pull for signing players also never mind growth. Now we sit behind Man Utd Man City Arsenal Liverpool Spurs. Not long before we are behind Villa and probably Everton. Forrest looking like moving to 50k also. Build a 80+k stadium with a full closing roof. Even add possible option to lower roof a tier for certain games if need be reducing capacity to 65k. Price it sensibly and if built people will come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) I'd personally be disappointed if it's only 65k. We could fill that easily every week now, and we're not even 'that' good yet. Edited May 9 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, LFEE said: No like I said they can keep increasing current prices… Yes there are other areas of growth but no point capping the obvious one immediately and the one thats the biggest to the fan also. What kept us in the conversation for many years was the fact we always had the 2nd biggest stadium in the English football. Was a great pull for signing players also never mind growth. Now we sit behind Man Utd Man City Arsenal Liverpool Spurs. Not long before we are behind Villa and probably Everton. Forrest looking like moving to 50k also. Build a 80+k stadium with a full closing roof. Even add possible option to lower roof a tier for certain games if need be reducing capacity to 65k. Price it sensibly and if built people will come. Love the ambition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 26 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Love the ambition. Just get frustrated that people are thinking this will a football stadium only when it won’t be. The attendances for some alternative venues could be massive if we built the Wembley of the TRUE north. Like @AyeDubbleYoo points out. We aren’t even that good yet. We haven’t even come close to breaking the transfer record or anything like that yet. This stadium is for the next 25 years not 2 and half years… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggys First Goal Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Option C!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 hours ago, Jackie Broon said: Every bit counts and I'm not saying a stadium expansion or new stadium isn't worthwile, but it probably isn't going to be the differnce between us breaking into the top tier finacially or not. Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. It'll be akin to *finger in the air* say, 20m (on top of what we currently get out of it) per year sponsorship deal which in itself is a signifcant sum of money in terms of amortisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 hour ago, LFEE said: No like I said they can keep increasing current prices… Yes there are other areas of growth but no point capping the obvious one immediately and the one thats the biggest to the fan also. What kept us in the conversation for many years was the fact we always had the 2nd biggest stadium in the English football. Was a great pull for signing players also never mind growth. Now we sit behind Man Utd Man City Arsenal Liverpool Spurs. Not long before we are behind Villa and probably Everton. Forrest looking like moving to 50k also. Build a 80+k stadium with a full closing roof. Even add possible option to lower roof a tier for certain games if need be reducing capacity to 65k. Price it sensibly and if built people will come. There's other ways of invreasing revenue from the ground making a 7 day facility for one. Better quality on match days (food and drink rather than the crap beer and pie we currently have) and in more space so more people use it. I know these should be done even with a new and bigger stadium but for me personally a new ground ultimately would be that, a new ground that I have little attachment to. I've been going to SJP since the early 70s and seen it evolve. Re your 2nd paragraph, I disagree, the size of the ground wasn't much of a draw, the potential of the fan base was the draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I like the sound of ”wow” and ”different” to anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I do wonder why, myself included, thinks that the PIF are going to do some touch up job or half a job. They are clearly going to go "all in". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggys First Goal Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 They’re going to give it a lick of black paint like Ashley did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack27 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 That lot has some serious experience, get them in https://www.hksinc.com/what-we-do/practices/sports-and-entertainment/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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