St James' Park

[OpenC]

4 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

Yeah but those other clubs fans are misguided, at best. 

We're not part of the cartel. For the most part I get you. 

 

Football is fucked. Bit like white western democracy*

 

 

 

*nooooooooo

 

that's a bit of a jump

[Groundhog63]

Just now, OpenC said:

 

that's a bit of a jump

 

Aye 😂😂😂 Similar but more dramatic 😱

[timeEd32]

3 minutes ago, OpenC said:

 

There's nothing more I can add, really. We've seen for the last decade the control that's exerted on the game by the big clubs and the leagues and organisations that run the game, to the detriment of the other clubs. I personally would prefer that Newcastle weren't viewed as part of that.  It's not out of any sense of piety and it's nothing to do with my views on our owners, it's just about how I'll feel hearing Newcastle being talked about as part of the problem by other clubs' fans.

 

The problem is you can't beat them if don't join them. This does not mean in a single game, competition, season, etc., but over the long run.

 

I think most people would agree with you if there was a way to put the genie back in the bottle so to speak. A sport where anyone could legitimately win the title on the first day of the season or where a Championship manager could call out Pep and say we're coming for you. That would be far more interesting. It is also not happening without some kind of continental or global salary cap, which I am quite certain is never happening.

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

This is quite literally the exact discussion / argument a number of people have been making for quite awhile now.

 

A new stadium is without question a catalyst for commercial income. And if you increase match-day and commercial income significantly you are then more likely to qualify for Europe, which increases your broadcast revenue. Consistent European qualification also grows your match-day revenue and allows for bigger commercial deals. As revenue continues to grow you can buy more players and more expensive players, which makes player trading a more consistent revenue stream. Some of that can be achieved with a refurbished stadium, but unfortunately the site limitations put a cap on that.

 

Money doesn't guarantee league titles and trophies. It doesn't even guarantee European football anymore given the number of clubs in the mix each season. But it does guarantee the possibility of those things. Whether it's all worth it comes down to the actual projections for what NUFC can expect to make (not what a London based club is making) and the other trade-offs like location, history, etc.

 

I totally get what you're saying and I'm with you on the bit in bold, but without wanting to sound like a bit of a pedant, what I've seen so far in terms of making the argument is nearer to a series of assertions based on premises I'm very dubious of than a sound argument based on a great deal of available evidence. 

 

Even then, if I accept the argument, I admit that it would also need to be incredibly strong, based on evidence I could really trust, and come with an offer too good to refuse for me to consider it worth doing vs what we'd lose in the process. 

[Golden Dragon 1976]

I said early in this thread I'd like to stay at St James but the people who would like to move make some good points 

 

But from reading them I cant help but think of the following

 

Reduced revenue if we extend.  As far as I can see Liverpool have extended there stand and the close ZERO seats whilst doing this.  OK it took 2 years but revenue wasn't effected

 

There is no guarantee NUFC would get planning permission to build on Leazes park or anywhere else in the vicinity of the current ground and from the musings on here quite a few who would like to move would draw the line at moving to Gosforth park/Silver link/Gateshead stadium.  And there is also the fact the no planning application from NUFC has been received by Newcastle council ( as of Sunday gone anyway)

 

People go on about spurs/arsenal stadium - have you seen how bad the team became when they moved in?  And how bad an atmosphere it is!

 

And finally, the one that makes me laugh is those who go on about corporate and making sure enough seat for everyone to see NUFC.  My ticket is about to go up 100% as i was on the 10/15 year deal.  People were moaning that the tickets for friendly's were more under our current owners then under MA!  And if you think tickets would stay the same or even get cheaper if we build a 80 thousand stadium cost hundreds of millions of quid your living in cloud coo coo land.  The cheapest ticket for spur v fulham when I checked was 170 quid and you were in the equivalent of level 7!

[Wallsendmag]

2 minutes ago, Golden Dragon 1976 said:

I said early in this thread I'd like to stay at St James but the people who would like to move make some good points 

 

But from reading them I cant help but think of the following

 

Reduced revenue if we extend.  As far as I can see Liverpool have extended there stand and the close ZERO seats whilst doing this.  OK it took 2 years but revenue wasn't effected

 

There is no guarantee NUFC would get planning permission to build on Leazes park or anywhere else in the vicinity of the current ground and from the musings on here quite a few who would like to move would draw the line at moving to Gosforth park/Silver link/Gateshead stadium.  And there is also the fact the no planning application from NUFC has been received by Newcastle council ( as of Sunday gone anyway)

 

People go on about spurs/arsenal stadium - have you seen how bad the team became when they moved in?  And how bad an atmosphere it is!

 

And finally, the one that makes me laugh is those who go on about corporate and making sure enough seat for everyone to see NUFC.  My ticket is about to go up 100% as i was on the 10/15 year deal.  People were moaning that the tickets for friendly's were more under our current owners then under MA!  And if you think tickets would stay the same or even get cheaper if we build a 80 thousand stadium cost hundreds of millions of quid your living in cloud coo coo land.  The cheapest ticket for spur v fulham when I checked was 170 quid and you were in the equivalent of level 7!

 

Liverpool lost around 4,500 seats when they expanded the Anfield Road end. Capacity dropped from just under 55k to just over 50k during the redevelopment.

 

Now at 61k.

[Golden Dragon 1976]

11 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Liverpool lost around 4,500 seats when they expanded the Anfield Road end. Capacity dropped from just under 55k to just over 50k during the redevelopment.

 

Now at 61k.

 

I stand corrected.

[Yorkie]

I get where @OpenC is coming from. I'd hate for us to become something I've always hated and I really wrestled with that when the takeover first happened and anything seemed possible.

 

If there's one positive side-effect of the PSR rules as they currently are, it's that the dividing line between the cartel and everyone else (including us) is absolutely steadfast, leaving us with only 'beat em' as opposed to 'join em'. 

 

Being so far ahead of Spurs and Man Utd despite the structures in place to hold us back is immensely satisfying. 

[Pancrate1892]

How long has the leazes roof been leaking? I don't sit there every week, but last night it was constantly dripping, despite no rain

[Interpolic]

8 minutes ago, Pancrate1892 said:

How long has the leazes roof been leaking? I don't sit there every week, but last night it was constantly dripping, despite no rain

 

There was a right drip in front of me but that was in the Milburn. 

[Infinitely Content]

I love where we are currently positioned at the moment, taking points and places off the big clubs whilst not spending disproportionately and residing firmly outside of the cartel. There was a time where I was convinced we would never win a trophy in my lifetime, now I believe it can happen within our current environment without the need for radical upheaval, even if the window of opportunity is potentially short and imminent. Given the choice, I would take a single league cup win, weep tears of joy at the final whistle and remain at an evolving, more polished but preserved St James' Park; forgoing the possible, perhaps inevitable movement towards becoming a cartel club in order to sign the best players and win the major honours consistently. If that's the price then I wouldn't pay it. I fear what becoming a lifeless, soulless club would feel like. It would hurt too much to lose the Newcastle United I love; and whilst we think we could be the exception to the rule, I have doubts about it.

When I imagine Newcastle in a new "best in class" stadium, rubbing shoulders with the cartel (being perceived rightly so by other supporters as one of them) and celebrating a 15th trophy with no less vigour than I currently celebrate Gordon or Almiron chasing down an opposition full back and conceding a goal kick, I can already foresee and sense the apathy and aridity I would feel. If the fate of not walking that path in the brokenness of English football is the way of the perennial underdog, hoping and dreaming but mostly not achieving then I accept that fate full-heartedly. The disappointment, the frustration, the hurt, the dreaming, I love those qualities and believe that they sustain the passion, the emotion and the drama which are all too beautifully human.

For what it's worth, I don't think I'm right by feeling or thinking this, or any more pious than another, only that my sentimental heart and affection towards this gloriously flawed and perpetually disappointing club has been one of the more prevailing aspects of my life, and I don't think I want to roll the dice in seeing it sterilised in the name of disproportionate spending to attain success. I would love to imagine a version of that eventuality being fully animated and alive, where the essence and spirit of the club remains untouched, but anytime I visit my mind's eye to visualise it, something feels off and hollow about it.

[STM]

If our two options are St James Park revamp or new stadium, any potential revamp worth its salt would leave SJP virtually unrecognisable anyway.

 

The old girl is looking increasingly tired and old. The could completely gut the place out, add an extension somewhere and give it a new roof etc, but such a cosmetic change would beg the question, why not just have a new stadium?

[LFEE]

53 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I get where @OpenC is coming from. I'd hate for us to become something I've always hated and I really wrestled with that when the takeover first happened and anything seemed possible.

 

If there's one positive side-effect of the PSR rules as they currently are, it's that the dividing line between the cartel and everyone else (including us) is absolutely steadfast, leaving us with only 'beat em' as opposed to 'join em'. 

 

Being so far ahead of Spurs and Man Utd despite the structures in place to hold us back is immensely satisfying. 

 

Until summer and you realise we are way behind Spurs and Man Utd again… and got to climb that mountain again only this time some of the squad don’t fancy base camp again. Not sure paying supporters would be too thrilled either.

[Harry 209]

2 minutes ago, STM said:

If our two options are St James Park revamp or new stadium, any potential revamp worth its salt would leave SJP virtually unrecognisable anyway.

 

The old girl is looking increasingly tired and old. The could completely gut the place out, add an extension somewhere and give it a new roof etc, but such a cosmetic change would beg the question, why not just have a new stadium?

Because it's current location is so unique and so central. One would have to assume any new stadium would be further out of the centre, even if only by a small amount.

[TRon]

2 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

This is quite literally the exact discussion / argument a number of people have been making for quite awhile now.

 

A new stadium is without question a catalyst for commercial income. And if you increase match-day and commercial income significantly you are then more likely to qualify for Europe, which increases your broadcast revenue. Consistent European qualification also grows your match-day revenue and allows for bigger commercial deals. As revenue continues to grow you can buy more players and more expensive players, which makes player trading a more consistent revenue stream. Some of that can be achieved with a refurbished stadium, but unfortunately the site limitations put a cap on that.

 

Money doesn't guarantee league titles and trophies. It doesn't even guarantee European football anymore given the number of clubs in the mix each season. But it does guarantee the possibility of those things. Whether it's all worth it comes down to the actual projections for what NUFC can expect to make (not what a London based club is making) and the other trade-offs like location, history, etc.

 

 

This basically. I suppose it just comes down to whether you want to compete at the top regularly or put more value on tradition.

[Yorkie]

37 minutes ago, LFEE said:

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

I get where @OpenC is coming from. I'd hate for us to become something I've always hated and I really wrestled with that when the takeover first happened and anything seemed possible.

 

If there's one positive side-effect of the PSR rules as they currently are, it's that the dividing line between the cartel and everyone else (including us) is absolutely steadfast, leaving us with only 'beat em' as opposed to 'join em'. 

 

Being so far ahead of Spurs and Man Utd despite the structures in place to hold us back is immensely satisfying. 

Expand  

 

Until summer and you realise we are way behind Spurs and Man Utd again… and got to climb that mountain again only this time some of the squad don’t fancy base camp again. Not sure paying supporters would be too thrilled either.

 

Don't get me wrong; I consider the rules to be absolute horseshit and I would obviously be in favour of a system which doesn't so brazenly favour a small number of teams. But whilst they exist I'll bask in the glory of pissing on those beneficiaries from great heights. 

[JigsawGoesToPieces]

On 15/01/2025 at 14:48, bobbydazzla said:

 

In terms of the financials related to their new stadium:

 

Tottenham Hotspur stadium is a money-printing machine.

The numbers released by Tottenham finally shows the financial power of the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium at something closer to the stadium’s full financial capability, a phenomenon that has been depressed and delayed due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Matchday receipt income went up from £106.1m in 2022 to £117.6m in 2023, while commercial revenue, which would include non-football events like concerts, non-football sporting events, and other activities, leaped from £183.5m to £227.7m. With Tottenham having already appealed to Haringey Council to increase the number of non-football events its allowed to host for next year, that number is expected to go up significantly in the future.

Tottenham Hotspur Stadium is now a London destination for not only football, but NFL, boxing, concerts, rugby, and other activities. People love to go there, and they spend a lot of time and money inside the stadium. In short, the stadium generates TONS of revenue, both on and off matchday — and that money gets reinvested into the club in a virtuous cycle.

 

As a comparison in their last year at White Hart Line they brought in £45m in match day revenue vs the £117.6m for 2023.

 

Whereas their on field issues are a result of them having an absolute helmet in charge of the club. As an example they have the lowest wages to turnover ratio in the Premier League, which is ridiculous for a club that has CL aspirations

 

 

 

 

 

Difficult to make too mant comparisons with Spurs, obviously being in London will play a big part in them getting things like big concerts, NFL etc with them having better transport links including Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead and London City airports.

 

We get the egg chasers most years anyway for the magic weekend, how much do we make from those three days?

[bobbydazzla]

26 minutes ago, JigsawGoesToPieces said:

 

Difficult to make too mant comparisons with Spurs, obviously being in London will play a big part in them getting things like big concerts, NFL etc with them having better transport links including Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead and London City airports.

 

We get the egg chasers most years anyway for the magic weekend, how much do we make from those three days?

It wasn’t intended to be a direct comparison of NUFC with Spurs, for the reasons you mention, a stadium in London will always get more non-football £’s than one up here 

 

Those figures were a response to someone saying “how’s it gone for Spurs” and the facts are it’s gone really well financially, they just don’t invest the massively increased revenue in improving the squad because Levy is a doylem 

 

And someone else asked how Spurs stadium revenue had changed from the end of the White Hart Lane era and the answer is they’re getting close to trebling the £’s

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by bobbydazzla

[huss9]

not just about seat numbers.

need wider concourses too.

bet we could almost double food/drink income just by havng more space and smaller queues.

loads of people get put off.

[NEEJ]

2 hours ago, Pancrate1892 said:

How long has the leazes roof been leaking? I don't sit there every week, but last night it was constantly dripping, despite no rain

I was right underneath it against Bromley. The Milburn was leaking a fair bit a while back as well, not sure if they sorted it. 

[HayDen Traces]

51 minutes ago, JigsawGoesToPieces said:

 

Difficult to make too mant comparisons with Spurs, obviously being in London will play a big part in them getting things like big concerts, NFL etc with them having better transport links including Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead and London City airports.

 

We get the egg chasers most years anyway for the magic weekend, how much do we make from those three days?

Good question on magic weekend, I dont know the figures but they reckon the previous (2 day event) was worth £4.3m to the local economy (not just nufc). Spurs meanwhile clear £6m in revenue every home game so the NFL should be at least that you'd think given its a longer game... more food and drink consumed.

Plus the NFL pay Spurs a rental fee... no idea what that is either like

[Strawberry]

The Freemen are on board with a slice of the Town Moor being used if it's partially on the Moor in the case of Leazes Park or completely in the case of Castle Leazes.

 

COO Miller was in a Gallowgate yesterday in fact finding mission.

[MagCA]

58 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

The Freemen are on board with a slice of the Town Moor being used if it's partially on the Moor in the case of Leazes Park or completely in the case of Castle Leazes.

 

COO Miller was in a Gallowgate yesterday in fact finding mission.

What is “a Gallowgate”?

[TheBrownBottle]

7 hours ago, Interpolic said:

 

I'm absolutely fascinated that you're so certain there are no drawbacks whatsoever, for literally anyone else but yourself 

 

Sitting in a curvy modern placca joy vacuum instead of an actual football ground for one. There's not one new ground in the UK I'd rather watch games in than ours.

 

I'm still to be convinced that we'll be the first English football club to achieve a matchday experience that isn't completely naff/sanitised/artificial/whatever compared to what we already have, imperfect as it is. 

It was a genuine question - I think the current SJP is exactly what you described, only a bit more rough around the edges.  A soulless half-complete concrete bowl with a shite ‘match day experience’.  It was built twenty-odd years ago, it’s not some ancient relic of a bygone age when football was still in touch with its roots.  

[Dr Venkman]

On 15/01/2025 at 16:49, OpenC said:

If only there was a high flying club in the premier league, maybe second or thereabouts, that hadn't sold its soul for corporate glory to demonstrate that it's still possible to football your way to success in 2025

 

Less than a decade ago we used to vilify and mock Mike Ashley for wanting us to be balance sheet champions and now we're all desperate to be balance sheet champions  football is so shit now, man

 

 

 

I want a new stadium partly because ours is a dump. Extra money to spend and it being easier to get in is a bonus.