So looks like Zoggy is off in the summer.

[Alberto2005]

Maybe i'm wrong but i'm sure around 80% of the board thought 5m for Damien Duff was a snip, i certainly did.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

5 mill for a 5 year contract, it's still good if we sell him on we'll get at least £3mill

[Mick]

Maybe i'm wrong but i'm sure around 80% of the board thought 5m for Damien Duff was a snip, i certainly did.

 

I thought Duff was a snip at the price we paid, I also thought that he was a player that we didn't need, so far the price looks way over the top.

[Guest cahyotw]

What if we mold him into a left back? He still has age on his side, good speed and crossing ... if we can bulk him up a bit and improve his defensive quality we might have a good player in him.

[tmonkey]

Maybe i'm wrong but i'm sure around 80% of the board thought 5m for Damien Duff was a snip, i certainly did.

 

Was personally dead against his signing before it was made because of his shiite form for Chelsea, but it was hard to think of it as anything but a bargain when it went through, hence why some us changed our tunes. I think that had something to do with the fact that we were supposedly going to pay £11mill for him when first Spurs and thus us were linked, a fee which would reasonably be expected for a player purchased for 17mill only 3 and a half seasons ago and who was still only 27, so when it turned out to be 5mill everyone was suprised at the low fee and most of us who were against his signing thought "ah, 5mill, not really too much, thats a bargain".

 

I remember there being a thread about the "bargain", in which a few of us stated that its only a bargain if we also sort out the dire needs of the first team/squad by signing several other required players, ie some quality defenders and at least two forwards, ie that its a good signing if and only if it wasnt a trophy signing to cover for the inability to bring in the required personnel. Unfortunately, thats what it turned out to be - so far anyway, maybe Duff will still come good? Cant find the thread using the search engine though, maybe that thread has been deleted.

 

And TBH, plenty of us on this board were worried about the Duff signing with regards to both the player himself as well as Zog's position in the team, eg:

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=21490.msg398426#msg398426

 

Duff is pretty overrated in my eyes, hes become a poor winger, doesnt go past anyone anymore, doesnt create much, just works hard up and down, pretends to take players on and just passes the ball simply. Its as though the amount J.Cole has improved by is the same amount Duff has gone backwards.

 

I agree with that, seems a poor imitation of himself these days, in his first season at Chelsea and at the start of their first title season, he was immense. I think he lacks motivation and not playing regularly has effected his confidence and sharpness, on his day though there aren't many better.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=25689.msg475269#msg475269

 

If Duff becomes our first choice left-winger what next for the Zog? I'm genuinely worried that he'll be squeezed out, which would be madness. Although he's raw he's an exciting talent that i'd hate to see tearing up the league for Arsenal et al.

 

Surely Roeder sees the potential N'Zogbia has?

 

But those fears were swept under the rug temporarily as we made the signing because of the low fee combined with the hope of Duff returning to old form.

[ohmelads]

I thought Duff was a bargain at £5m. I thought that even Newcastle wouldn't spend £10m on a striker and £5m on a winger if we only had £15m in the kitty, leaving only 6 defenders to get us through a season. I underestimated the club's stupidity and sure enough that was a third of our budget and we were left with nothing to buy defenders!

 

If we want to build a successful team over years and years we need players who play together for years and years, we need youngsters who become synonymous with this club. We need continuity, both with playing staff and with (a good) manager. It's quite hard to just buy a successful team. Liverpool have built a formidable squad but their most important players are still Gerrard and Carragher. Chelsea have spent a fortune but Terry and Lampard are the core of their team. Look at Man Utd and their "class of 92", Scholes, Giggs and Neville are still vital to them all these years later. It's hard to put a price on these players because they are hard to replace. Look at Arsenal since they sold Vieira. In N'Zogbia, Taylor and Milner we've made a start, they may not be world class but they will get better the longer they play together. Krul might come good in a few years too. We need to build on these foundations, not sell our future. If we lose N'Zogbia it'll show a serious lack of ambition.

[Yorkie]

Absolutely brilliant post tbh, OML. Spot on in every single way.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

What if we mold him into a left back? He still has age on his side, good speed and crossing ... if we can bulk him up a bit and improve his defensive quality we might have a good player in him.

 

Should do that to O'brien.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I thought Duff was a bargain at £5m. I thought that even Newcastle wouldn't spend £10m on a striker and £5m on a winger if we only had £15m in the kitty, leaving only 6 defenders to get us through a season. I underestimated the club's stupidity and sure enough that was a third of our budget and we were left with nothing to buy defenders!

 

If we want to build a successful team over years and years we need players who play together for years and years, we need youngsters who become synonymous with this club. We need continuity, both with playing staff and with (a good) manager. It's quite hard to just buy a successful team. Liverpool have built a formidable squad but their most important players are still Gerrard and Carragher. Chelsea have spent a fortune but Terry and Lampard are the core of their team. Look at Man Utd and their "class of 92", Scholes, Giggs and Neville are still vital to them all these years later. It's hard to put a price on these players because they are hard to replace. Look at Arsenal since they sold Vieira. In N'Zogbia, Taylor and Milner we've made a start, they may not be world class but they will get better the longer they play together. Krul might come good in a few years too. We need to build on these foundations, not sell our future. If we lose N'Zogbia it'll show a serious lack of ambition.

 

that's a serious stretch comparing Zog to Gerard Terry Neville and the like on the back of at best 2/3rds of a season

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

I thought Duff was a bargain at £5m. I thought that even Newcastle wouldn't spend £10m on a striker and £5m on a winger if we only had £15m in the kitty, leaving only 6 defenders to get us through a season. I underestimated the club's stupidity and sure enough that was a third of our budget and we were left with nothing to buy defenders!

 

If we want to build a successful team over years and years we need players who play together for years and years, we need youngsters who become synonymous with this club. We need continuity, both with playing staff and with (a good) manager. It's quite hard to just buy a successful team. Liverpool have built a formidable squad but their most important players are still Gerrard and Carragher. Chelsea have spent a fortune but Terry and Lampard are the core of their team. Look at Man Utd and their "class of 92", Scholes, Giggs and Neville are still vital to them all these years later. It's hard to put a price on these players because they are hard to replace. Look at Arsenal since they sold Vieira. In N'Zogbia, Taylor and Milner we've made a start, they may not be world class but they will get better the longer they play together. Krul might come good in a few years too. We need to build on these foundations, not sell our future. If we lose N'Zogbia it'll show a serious lack of ambition.

 

Good points.

 

I think the main thing that pisses me off is not the fact that he isn't in the 1st team (well that does to an extent) but it's the fact that I will bet my testi's that he isn't being pushed to become the player he has the potential to be.

[Howaythelads]

Zog has had one good season where he showed potential, he's then struggled as predicted before the season started and this is normal for a young player.

 

Despite it being easy enough to predict a possible slump by Zog it was clearly a stupid decision to buy an experienced player for a problem area like the left side of midfield even though such a player became available at a bargain fee. Let's face it, we have any number of players who can play that position effectively, such as Milner, Dyer, Ameobi, Emre, Parker, Sibierski and probably Bramble and Carr, given that any player can just slot in there and be good enough.

[Lloydie]

Yup, he's still a kid and he gets looked after like one. I'd say next season he should be looking to start 15 or so games and come on as sub in some more. Duff would expect to start 25+ and get subbed from time to time.

 

It's more than he'd get if he went to Arsenal, and it gives him plenty of opportunity to earn a place in the starting XI.

[Cajun]

Zog has had one good season where he showed potential, he's then struggled as predicted before the season started and this is normal for a young player.

 

Despite it being easy enough to predict a possible slump by Zog it was clearly a stupid decision to buy an experienced player for a problem area like the left side of midfield even though such a player became available at a bargain fee. Let's face it, we have any number of players who can play that position effectively, such as Milner, Dyer, Ameobi, Emre, Parker, Sibierski and probably Bramble and Carr, given that any player can just slot in there and be good enough.

 

Yet we have NO good left backs and (at a stretch) ONE quality centre back. Yeah left wing is certainly what we needed. In regards to players fitting in, Dyer and Milner play a hell of a lot better on the left wing than any of our defenders play at left back.

[NE5]

Did he sign the new contract?

Yes

 

You 100% sure?

 

 

 

He was meant to sign a 3 yr extension at the end of last season...I think he did sign.

 

he did, it was in the annual statement

 

 

[johnnypd]

i wanted us to sign a left-winger in the summer and i would've liked Pires (tho he suffered a bad injury at villarreal) as someone to rotate with zoggy, a real class act zoggy could learn from. he would've been off in 2 years anyway so long-term it wouldn't damage N'Zogbia's career. it was predictable that N'Zogbia would struggle a bit this season so in principle bringing in an experienced player was a good idea.

 

Duff though is a big investment and younger so he's more likely to be around for a long time. As he's one of Roeder's signings i can't see Zoggy ever being first-choice LW while Duff is at the club. Duff's presence can only be bad news for N'Zogbia and it seems we don't have any sort of plan for developing him as a player.

[Rich]

It will certainly be interesting to see if he's on the bench today, with Parker and Sibierski likely to miss out.

[Howaythelads]

Zog has had one good season where he showed potential, he's then struggled as predicted before the season started and this is normal for a young player.

 

Despite it being easy enough to predict a possible slump by Zog it was clearly a stupid decision to buy an experienced player for a problem area like the left side of midfield even though such a player became available at a bargain fee. Let's face it, we have any number of players who can play that position effectively, such as Milner, Dyer, Ameobi, Emre, Parker, Sibierski and probably Bramble and Carr, given that any player can just slot in there and be good enough.

 

Yet we have NO good left backs and (at a stretch) ONE quality centre back. Yeah left wing is certainly what we needed. In regards to players fitting in, Dyer and Milner play a hell of a lot better on the left wing than any of our defenders play at left back.

 

We DID need someone for the left and a player became available.

[Cajun]

Zog has had one good season where he showed potential, he's then struggled as predicted before the season started and this is normal for a young player.

 

Despite it being easy enough to predict a possible slump by Zog it was clearly a stupid decision to buy an experienced player for a problem area like the left side of midfield even though such a player became available at a bargain fee. Let's face it, we have any number of players who can play that position effectively, such as Milner, Dyer, Ameobi, Emre, Parker, Sibierski and probably Bramble and Carr, given that any player can just slot in there and be good enough.

 

Yet we have NO good left backs and (at a stretch) ONE quality centre back. Yeah left wing is certainly what we needed. In regards to players fitting in, Dyer and Milner play a hell of a lot better on the left wing than any of our defenders play at left back.

 

We DID need someone for the left and a player became available.

 

Nowhere near as much as we DID need a centre back or a left back and players became available.

[NE5]

i wanted us to sign a left-winger in the summer and i would've liked Pires (tho he suffered a bad injury at villarreal) as someone to rotate with zoggy, a real class act zoggy could learn from. he would've been off in 2 years anyway so long-term it wouldn't damage N'Zogbia's career. it was predictable that N'Zogbia would struggle a bit this season so in principle bringing in an experienced player was a good idea.

 

Duff though is a big investment and younger so he's more likely to be around for a long time. As he's one of Roeder's signings i can't see Zoggy ever being first-choice LW while Duff is at the club. Duff's presence can only be bad news for N'Zogbia and it seems we don't have any sort of plan for developing him as a player.

 

this is the problem. Most of us were happy with Duff, and we would be if he was performing too. Zoggy was young and was always likely to dip in form then come back stronger, its a normal process. Now however, he needs to get games and develop his ability that he obviously had from the start, and for me he can become a really top player if he does this.

If Duff doesn't hit form he will have to go. If he does, we could play Zoggy inside, he has supposedly said he would like to do this, or maybe Duff could become a left back. Is he up to it in the premiership I wonder ?

 

 

[NE5]

Zog has had one good season where he showed potential, he's then struggled as predicted before the season started and this is normal for a young player.

 

Despite it being easy enough to predict a possible slump by Zog it was clearly a stupid decision to buy an experienced player for a problem area like the left side of midfield even though such a player became available at a bargain fee. Let's face it, we have any number of players who can play that position effectively, such as Milner, Dyer, Ameobi, Emre, Parker, Sibierski and probably Bramble and Carr, given that any player can just slot in there and be good enough.

 

Yet we have NO good left backs and (at a stretch) ONE quality centre back. Yeah left wing is certainly what we needed. In regards to players fitting in, Dyer and Milner play a hell of a lot better on the left wing than any of our defenders play at left back.

 

We DID need someone for the left and a player became available.

 

Nowhere near as much as we DID need a centre back or a left back and players became available.

 

Sadly Jon, it appears you still think a defender would prevent us from being dominted by teams such as Wigan, Smoggies,

Charlton, Fulham, and Man City as has happened lately. If you can't dictate the game against teams like this, then you are in trouble and only better quality footballers who can pass and move in forward areas change this.

 

 

[johnnypd]

i wanted us to sign a left-winger in the summer and i would've liked Pires (tho he suffered a bad injury at villarreal) as someone to rotate with zoggy, a real class act zoggy could learn from. he would've been off in 2 years anyway so long-term it wouldn't damage N'Zogbia's career. it was predictable that N'Zogbia would struggle a bit this season so in principle bringing in an experienced player was a good idea.

 

Duff though is a big investment and younger so he's more likely to be around for a long time. As he's one of Roeder's signings i can't see Zoggy ever being first-choice LW while Duff is at the club. Duff's presence can only be bad news for N'Zogbia and it seems we don't have any sort of plan for developing him as a player.

 

this is the problem. Most of us were happy with Duff, and we would be if he was performing too. Zoggy was young and was always likely to dip in form then come back stronger, its a normal process. Now however, he needs to get games and develop his ability that he obviously had from the start, and for me he can become a really top player if he does this.

If Duff doesn't hit form he will have to go. If he does, we could play Zoggy inside, he has supposedly said he would like to do this, or maybe Duff could become a left back. Is he up to it in the premiership I wonder ?

 

I think with a more experienced and self-assured manager, it wouldn't matter that Duff was one of their own signings or not, they'd drop the player if they weren't performing. With Roeder, he feels he has to defend himself at every turn (not without good reason when you think of some of the crap he's got from the likes of Allardyce and Redknapp) and puts undue significance on "his" signings as opposed to players he's inherited. he'll play Duff if he's fit 9 times out of 10, which doesn't leave much time on the pitch for Zoggy. There should be more rotation imo. As you've said, there are other options in terms of fitting both players into the side, with the present squad, Duff at LB would be the most sensible.

[Cajun]

Zog has had one good season where he showed potential, he's then struggled as predicted before the season started and this is normal for a young player.

 

Despite it being easy enough to predict a possible slump by Zog it was clearly a stupid decision to buy an experienced player for a problem area like the left side of midfield even though such a player became available at a bargain fee. Let's face it, we have any number of players who can play that position effectively, such as Milner, Dyer, Ameobi, Emre, Parker, Sibierski and probably Bramble and Carr, given that any player can just slot in there and be good enough.

 

Yet we have NO good left backs and (at a stretch) ONE quality centre back. Yeah left wing is certainly what we needed. In regards to players fitting in, Dyer and Milner play a hell of a lot better on the left wing than any of our defenders play at left back.

 

We DID need someone for the left and a player became available.

 

Nowhere near as much as we DID need a centre back or a left back and players became available.

 

Sadly Jon, it appears you still think a defender would prevent us from being dominted by teams such as Wigan, Smoggies,

Charlton, Fulham, and Man City as has happened lately. If you can't dictate the game against teams like this, then you are in trouble and only better quality footballers who can pass and move in forward areas change this.

 

 

 

Left backs don't pass and move the ball forward? I suppose you think left back wasn't one of the main reasons we lost to AZ aswell?

 

We tend to have fuck all going down the left wing because there isn't anyone good enough to support Duff, do you not see why this could be part of our issue when it comes to retaining possesion in the oppositions half?

[NE5]

i wanted us to sign a left-winger in the summer and i would've liked Pires (tho he suffered a bad injury at villarreal) as someone to rotate with zoggy, a real class act zoggy could learn from. he would've been off in 2 years anyway so long-term it wouldn't damage N'Zogbia's career. it was predictable that N'Zogbia would struggle a bit this season so in principle bringing in an experienced player was a good idea.

 

Duff though is a big investment and younger so he's more likely to be around for a long time. As he's one of Roeder's signings i can't see Zoggy ever being first-choice LW while Duff is at the club. Duff's presence can only be bad news for N'Zogbia and it seems we don't have any sort of plan for developing him as a player.

 

this is the problem. Most of us were happy with Duff, and we would be if he was performing too. Zoggy was young and was always likely to dip in form then come back stronger, its a normal process. Now however, he needs to get games and develop his ability that he obviously had from the start, and for me he can become a really top player if he does this.

If Duff doesn't hit form he will have to go. If he does, we could play Zoggy inside, he has supposedly said he would like to do this, or maybe Duff could become a left back. Is he up to it in the premiership I wonder ?

 

I think with a more experienced and self-assured manager, it wouldn't matter that Duff was one of their own signings or not, they'd drop the player if they weren't performing. With Roeder, he feels he has to defend himself at every turn (not without good reason when you think of some of the crap he's got from the likes of Allardyce and Redknapp) and puts undue significance on "his" signings as opposed to players he's inherited. he'll play Duff if he's fit 9 times out of 10, which doesn't leave much time on the pitch for Zoggy. There should be more rotation imo. As you've said, there are other options in terms of fitting both players into the side, with the present squad, Duff at LB would be the most sensible.

 

Agreed. Shirk the tough decisions and you'll lose your job, the same as choosing between Butt and Parker.

 

 

[Parky]

i wanted us to sign a left-winger in the summer and i would've liked Pires (tho he suffered a bad injury at villarreal) as someone to rotate with zoggy, a real class act zoggy could learn from. he would've been off in 2 years anyway so long-term it wouldn't damage N'Zogbia's career. it was predictable that N'Zogbia would struggle a bit this season so in principle bringing in an experienced player was a good idea.

 

Duff though is a big investment and younger so he's more likely to be around for a long time. As he's one of Roeder's signings i can't see Zoggy ever being first-choice LW while Duff is at the club. Duff's presence can only be bad news for N'Zogbia and it seems we don't have any sort of plan for developing him as a player.

 

this is the problem. Most of us were happy with Duff, and we would be if he was performing too. Zoggy was young and was always likely to dip in form then come back stronger, its a normal process. Now however, he needs to get games and develop his ability that he obviously had from the start, and for me he can become a really top player if he does this.

If Duff doesn't hit form he will have to go. If he does, we could play Zoggy inside, he has supposedly said he would like to do this, or maybe Duff could become a left back. Is he up to it in the premiership I wonder ?

 

I think with a more experienced and self-assured manager, it wouldn't matter that Duff was one of their own signings or not, they'd drop the player if they weren't performing. With Roeder, he feels he has to defend himself at every turn (not without good reason when you think of some of the crap he's got from the likes of Allardyce and Redknapp) and puts undue significance on "his" signings as opposed to players he's inherited. he'll play Duff if he's fit 9 times out of 10, which doesn't leave much time on the pitch for Zoggy. There should be more rotation imo. As you've said, there are other options in terms of fitting both players into the side, with the present squad, Duff at LB would be the most sensible.

 

Agreed. Shirk the tough decisions and you'll lose your job, the same as choosing between Butt and Parker.

 

 

 

Agreed, Roeder is failing the big descsions mainly imo because he doesn't have the psychological makeup of a top manager and is trying to please all at all times.

[Mowen]

I have to admit I was pleased when Duff signed: however I think both our left hand side and team would be stronger if we had signed a decent LB a la Bridge instead of Duffer. I would say that the LB and Milner/Emre (for when Zog is out) is still stronger than Huntington and Duff as a pairing.