FORUM RULES REMINDER: Fixtures lists

[Andy]

As the Premiership fixtures lists for the 2007/08 season are released within the coming week, can everyone please remember that posting fixtures lists on the forum can potentially result in the site being shut down, and will therefore result in an immediate two week ban from the forum for the responsible user, without exception.

 

Fixtures lists are copyrighted property of the FA and Football DataCo. Rulings state that "no part of the Fixtures Lists may be reproduced stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written permission of Football DataCo Limited".

 

There are no excuses for any users who break this rule, and due to the fact that the site has been shut down in the past for this very thing, a zero-tolerance approach will be taken by all members of the moderating team. Please do not take any risks over this issue, and do not attempt to use any work-arounds. This includes using pretend club names and/or trying to disguise the fixture list into any other form.

 

Thanks for your co-operation.

[Andy]

Bumpety Bump...

[Newcastle Fan]

Why..just why..

[ChrisJbarnes]

if only there was some way of me knowing what matches we have from now until the end of the season, and what days and times they were. if only.

[S.S.R.]

Since when did the league own names of cities to the point where they can prevent us from using them in - online - conversation, while they can auction them off to the rest of the world?

 

Shouldn't we use PES names to get round them?

 

London Reds are beating Lancashire blue 1-0 atm.

[hakka]

Can anyone offer a logical reason why the fixtures are copyrighted? it's hardly secret material, it's available in seconds via hundreds of football websites, local/national newspapers and tv stations across the UK.  All we are trying to do is discuss what games the club we support have up and coming and what results we think they will have.

 

What possible evil are we causing from saying "ooh, on 13th March team X are playing team X!"

 

And if it is copyrighted, how do you get permission to use it? do you have to "pay" to be able to say which matches are on which date?  this is madness.  Anyone know how much it costs for the privilage to do this? does any other sport clamp down on something so pathetic as this? 

 

Celebs get photo's of them taken without permission all the time, and that's perfectly legal to shove straight in to newspaper, AND SELL IT.  But if your football fan, your doomed if you even whisper a fixture list on a message forum.  Cause that's proper naughty that. 

 

Is there a sub-division within the FA called FI5? do they send covert forum members out there to inflitrate and counter would be fixture list posters?

 

What next, players names copyrighted so you can't even discuss them on forums? or perhaps the score line, copyright that so we can't even discuss the goals.

 

And how can this copyright only extend to discussions in posts? why is it perfectly ok for threads to hosted about games? surely saying "Newcastle vs Team X on DD/MM/YY Official Thread" is just as guilty as the rest? how does that get the nod and the rest don't?

 

I may not be able to say what the fixtures are, but at least I can say that FA are bunch of dickheads over this entire joke of a situation. 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Can anyone offer a logical reason why the fixtures are copyrighted? it's hardly secret material, it's available in seconds via hundreds of football websites, local/national newspapers and tv stations across the UK.   All we are trying to do is discuss what games the club we support have up and coming and what results we think they will have.

 

What possible evil are we causing from saying "ooh, on 13th March team X are playing team X!"

 

And if it is copyrighted, how do you get permission to use it? do you have to "pay" to be able to say which matches are on which date?  this is madness.  Anyone know how much it costs for the privilage to do this? does any other sport clamp down on something so pathetic as this? 

 

Celebs get photo's of them taken without permission all the time, and that's perfectly legal to shove straight in to newspaper, AND SELL IT.  But if your football fan, your doomed if you even whisper a fixture list on a message forum.  Cause that's proper naughty that.  

 

Is there a sub-division within the FA called FI5? do they send covert forum members out there to inflitrate and counter would be fixture list posters?

 

What next, players names copyrighted so you can't even discuss them on forums? or perhaps the score line, copyright that so we can't even discuss the goals.

 

And how can this copyright only extend to discussions in posts? why is it perfectly ok for threads to hosted about games? surely saying "Newcastle vs Team X on DD/MM/YY Official Thread" is just as guilty as the rest? how does that get the nod and the rest don't?

 

I may not be able to say what the fixtures are, but at least I can say that FA are bunch of dickheads over this entire joke of a situation.  

 

http://www.freethefixtures.com/

[JH]

For those unaware/unsure:

 

DataCo. This is a company owned by the Premier and Football Leagues, whose job is to charge for publication of the fixture lists, as well as the increasing volume of other data, including match statistics, to which the clubs claim copyright. The operation makes £7m-£8m for English and Scottish professional clubs, paid by 22,000 newspapers, bookmakers, websites and broadcasters here and worldwide. The fee is standard: £266 plus VAT to print the fixtures of one English club. Newspapers printing the fixtures of all clubs, plus a delivery fee, pay around £6,000 plus VAT to DataCo.

 

The story begins in 1959, when the Football League successfully sued Littlewoods, forcing the company to pay for printing the fixtures on pools coupons. At that time the League seemed a more deserving case: the clubs were charging pennies at the turnstiles and there was no TV income but the pools companies were making fortunes. The money, Folker says, became the clubs' major collective source of cash. That case has never been challenged and now, Folker says, the income of around £7.5m is shared equally between all clubs, so 56% goes to the 72 Football League clubs. Only 18% is paid to the 20 English Premier League clubs.

 

"That's around £67,000 per Premiership club," Folker says. "It's very little to the big clubs but for the 30 Scottish Football League clubs, 22% of their total revenue comes from DataCo. This is not the big clubs looking to make money from fans' sites, not at all. We recognise that the fans are the lifeblood of the game." Why so heavy-handed, then? Folker's argument is that they have no choice under competition law. "We have to be consistent."

 

DataCo argue that if they make exceptions, even for non-profit-making distributors - and Folker says, validly, that this is not always easy to ascertain as some fanzines do make money - they could be open to challenge by commercial organisations, like newspapers, who pay up only grudgingly now for what they feel is good advertising for the clubs.

 

Some years ago, to recognise the contribution of fanzines, DataCo struck a deal. It agreed that clubs could officially "nominate" one fanzine each that would then pay a token £1 and be allowed to publish fixtures. None of the websites confronted by DataCo were aware of this at first. Rowson, anyway, saw problems immediately: there is more than one fanzine at most clubs and also, though BSaD has a good relationship with Watford, becoming officially "nominated" is a sure way to destroy a fanzine's credibility.

 

Some believe the Littlewoods case could be successfully challenged now and a law firm has offered its services to Rowson and Grant for free - they're currently considering whether they can face it. Folker, meanwhile, argues that however strange it seems this is for the overall good of the game.

 

"The news-papers, broadcasters and bookmakers are commercial organisations and it is right they pay for printing the fixtures. We're happy if fanzines write an editorial piece which mentions a forthcoming game but they cannot print a list of fixtures with the dates."

[Decky]

Can we can stuff like

 

"i think we will win Boro (away)"

 

?

 

As long as we dont use dates or anything?

 

Also surely saying stuff like "the mackems" and "manure" is ok?

[midds]

Can we can stuff like

 

"i think we will win Boro (away)"

 

?

 

As long as we dont use dates or anything?

 

Also surely saying stuff like "the mackems" and "manure" is ok?

 

Read the first post in this thread. Particularly the bit about the 2 week ban and avoiding work-arounds.

[Andy]

Decky:

 

For the first point: Yes, you can do that, just don't list fixtures in a manner that could even remotely be interpreted as a fixture list.

Second point: No, it's not acceptable to use nicknames or "pro-evo" names. We are not taking any risks since the site has been shut down once before because of this.

[Andy]

 

For the first point: Yes, you can do that, just don't list fixtures in a manner that could even remotely be interpreted as a fixture list.

 

Just to qualify; I mean, yes, you could say in conversation: "I think we will win at Boro (away)." But that's it. Saying "I think we will win at Boro (away), then Sunderland (home) then Man Utd (away) then portsmouth (home)," is obviously not acceptable.

[Northern Monkey]

Please also be aware of the Unofficial Forum Rule, which is that it is not allowed to point out that the whole Keegan as manager thing is The Emperors New Clothes.

[Teasy]

 

For the first point: Yes, you can do that, just don't list fixtures in a manner that could even remotely be interpreted as a fixture list.

 

Just to qualify; I mean, yes, you could say in conversation: "I think we will win at Boro (away)." But that's it. Saying "I think we will win at Boro (away), then Sunderland (home) then Man Utd (away) then portsmouth (home)," is obviously not acceptable.

 

What if those games aren't in order though?  I mean surely for it to actually be considered to be anything like a fixture list it would have to be a list of team names in the order they'll be played with away or home next to each?..

 

I can never understand why people get in trouble for saying "we have these teams left [random list of teams in no particular order] and we need this many points, can we get enough points".  That's when this fixture list clamp down gets really silly IMO.

[Teasy]

Please also be aware of the Unofficial Forum Rule, which is that it is not allowed to point out that the whole Keegan as manager thing is The Emperors New Clothes.

 

You're allowed to say that if you want, but other people are also allowed to tell you that you're talking shit.

[Andy]

Please do not take any risks over this issue, and do not attempt to use any work-arounds. This includes using pretend club names and/or trying to disguise the fixture list into any other form.

 

This is really simple.

 

If people jeopardise the forum they will be banned. With the likes of abuse, flame wars and so on and so forth - personally speaking - I'll rarely ban without first warning via PM. But with this rule and the other copyright rules, as far as I'm concerned, there will be no warnings other than the ones in this thread and the ones in the forum's ToS and Rules and Guidelines section.

 

If people want to take risks with work-arounds, go ahead. You might actually get some work done in your fortnight absence.

[bovineblue]

Surely at this stage in the season anybody with a reasonable amount of intelligence can use our previous matches to work out what teams we have left to play and wheter we play them at home or away (no match dates of course).

[PM]

 

For the first point: Yes, you can do that, just don't list fixtures in a manner that could even remotely be interpreted as a fixture list.

 

Just to qualify; I mean, yes, you could say in conversation: "I think we will win at Boro (away)." But that's it. Saying "I think we will win at Boro (away), then Sunderland (home) then Man Utd (away) then portsmouth (home)," is obviously not acceptable.

 

What if those games aren't in order though?  I mean surely for it to actually be considered to be anything like a fixture list it would have to be a list of team names in the order they'll be played with away or home next to each?..

 

I can never understand why people get in trouble for saying "we have these teams left [random list of teams in no particular order] and we need this many points, can we get enough points".  That's when this fixture list clamp down gets really silly IMO.

 

We agree.  It's like offside - all the refs and that think the interpretations of it are daft, but have to apply it.  Sorry.

[pedro111]

This is a total joke of a situation tbh.

 

I have a question, when in town on matchdays i get numerous little plastic cards handed to me by scantily clad young women employed by various bars in the area containing fixture lists on the back.  Do said bars pay for this?

 

 

[Teasy]

So does that mean that both admins in this thread consider what I suggested in my post to be a work around?

 

In other words, posting two team names or more in random order in one post would be considered breaking the rules?  Also would that change if 'home/away' wasn't listed?

 

We might as well make this utterly clear, nobody wants to have to ban people over something so incredibly silly after all..

[Syrette]

Please also be aware of the Unofficial Forum Rule, which is that it is not allowed to point out that the whole Keegan as manager thing is The Emperors New Clothes.

 

[Adam]

It is a pisstake how they have managed to copy right a list of names next to dates. The money men in football are getting out of control.

[indi]

Please just read the opening post, I'm not really sure that we can make it clearer than that.

 

[Nobody]

 

For the first point: Yes, you can do that, just don't list fixtures in a manner that could even remotely be interpreted as a fixture list.

Just to qualify; I mean, yes, you could say in conversation: "I think we will win at Boro (away)." But that's it. Saying "I think we will win at Boro (away), then Sunderland (home) then Man Utd (away) then portsmouth (home)," is obviously not acceptable.

http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/smile/1690.gif

[Rob W]

come on lads - the Mods don't like it anymore than teh rest of us but they are the ones who will be sued so they HAVE to be careful so lay off them

 

Anyway any decent fan knows the list of by heart surely?