Kieron Dyer

[ChezGiven]

Jiimymag, Big Sam said the information regarding why we upped our price was confidential so how comes you seem to know?

 

Or is it that infact you don't know and are going out of your way to assume it was a mistake by our club as apposed to West Hams.

 

I've given the steps involved in a footballers transfer in idiot proof detail in an earlier post. Whatever the reason for upping the price, we fucked up!!! End of Story.

 

No its not, the end of the story will be where he ends up in just under a month, so you're judgement and scorn are premature.

[Robster]

What is putting the element of doubt in my mind as to who is at fault is because over the summer, West Ham havent come across very well and something at teh back of my head is telling me that there is more to this than purely Newcastle asking for money.

 

Maybe I am putting too much faith in our Board that they wouldnt make such a juvenile mistake

 

We await Dyer's autobiography with bated breath for the truth

[Guest black]

I think the Loyalty bonus thing is made up, not really sure where that came from.

 

Am i correct in thinking that Dyer spent time training with West Ham whilst injured? Haven't got a clue where i heard/read that but if so wouldn't suprise me if there was something more sinister going on. Hence the silence form the West Ham camp.

 

All theory of course.

 

It allegedly came from a reliable source on a west ham forum, so yeah it's probably made up!

[Guest black]

If it's true about the loyalty bonus thing the club are probably protecting Dyer because it won't go down well with the fans if he ends up having to stay. There's some speculation that the deal can be revived though.

Well said Alex.

how's the mull bowl going?

Is that you Sammy?

No, I don't know anyone called manc-mag

[STM]

Jiimymag, Big Sam said the information regarding why we upped our price was confidential so how comes you seem to know?

 

Or is it that infact you don't know and are going out of your way to assume it was a mistake by our club as apposed to West Hams.

 

I've given the steps involved in a footballers transfer in idiot proof detail in an earlier post. Whatever the reason for upping the price, we f***** up!!! End of Story.

 

"End of story" the classic words of someone talking out of their arse.

 

So it isn't possible that we were happy with the price from west ham and then because of some un-explained pissing off behaviour we decided to up our price?

 

For example, if i had found out that we'd accepted a bid from a club that had been tapping up one of our players then i'd be tempted to make them pay more out of spite. We have every right to change our mind on the value of our players.

 

[jimmymag]

Eh???

 

What are you going on about???

 

Who said we are being held to ransom???

 

It shouldn't be hard to arrange the transfer of a footballer should it? It should go something like this:-

 

We make the player available, we set a price whilst also factoring in anything in the players contract such as "loyalty" bonuses etc. We get a club interested in the player, they agree to the price we've set, we allow the player to enter into personal negotiations with the buying club, they agree personal terms, the player has a medical and if he passes he signs a contract.

 

Shouldn't be too difficult should it, except we may not have factored into the price Dire's potential "loyalty" bonus or, as has been stated by Sam, we undervalued Dire by £2 million. Either way we f***** up, West Ham are totally innocent in this, and if you think allowing a £6 million asset to "rot in the reserves" is in the best interests of NUFC you're a bigger idiot than you sound!

Ok, let's start at the beginning for you, firstly you want to call me an idiot, go look in the mirror first.

Secondly, why would it be the clubs fault if they have entered into the agreement in good faith, believing that Dyer wouldn't be asking for his loyalty bonus and then he goes, "oh by the way about that 2 mil you owe me?"

What you think they should just open up the wallet and go, here Kieron, you're such a good chap and have been such a good employee, we'll just sort out the balance for you!

Like fu<k they should.

But then again with supporters like yourself that point the finger at the club whether they're right or wrong maybe they should just roll over spread their cheeks and go, here help yourself.

We all want rid of Dyer but why should we pay him for the privilage?

 

Like I said earlier, if Dire had a "loyalty" bonus written into his contract this should have been factored into the asking price. You're assuming that Dire might have verbally waived his entitlement to said bonus, again, total bollocks! Chris Mort is a lawyer and he would have got that sort of agreement in writing before accepting West Ham's offer of the full asking price, and if he didn't then he deserves to be struck off and massive questions would have to be asked on his suitability to function as Chairman of NUFC.

 

That's speculation, but whatever the reasons for this debacle, NUFC are at fault.

 

 

[NE5]

ashley sending out a message if you ask me. making an example of the deal.

 

we're no one's mugs anymore, dont f*** with us!

 

Sends out another message that we have enough money at the club not to be bothered about losing out Dyer's fee. That is re-assuring in itself and should give critics of the new regime like Invicta and NE5 something to think about.

 

 

To clarify, you think it's OK for the club to be run so Ashley bails it out and either uses his own money or the clubs to keep a player who wants to leave ?

 

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not advocating being an easy touch, it may well be that this increase in the fee is to pay for a loyalty

payment by Dyer, and I would actually be in favour of letting the little b****** rot if this is the case, although as Sam is the manager he will have to do the sensible thing and play him, but I hope he doesn't expect the supporters to accept him fully again after this escapade. You can't chuck money away, and you have to use your players to win games. We have been through this bollocks with Souness and Bellamy, and Robert.

 

I'm asking this of you because you didn't respond to my post in "everything falling into place", number 237, and wonder why exactly you seem to want to make such snide comments about myself - and vicky - and presume for some reason that someone has supported the club for 40 years and not wanted us to be successful, just because we dont' agree with you ? Some people prefer to judge on actions when they see them, rather than wear rose tinted specs.

 

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players personally, and can't see anything wrong with that, can you  ?

 

Unless of course you yourself have limited ambition [bTW this is similar to the last comment you didn't respond to]

 

I think if the clubs have agreed a fee of 6m quid he should stick to his word, and if Dyer has asked for a loyalty bonus then he would be far wiser to forget about it, he must know that setting foot in the quayside again would not be very advisable.

 

 

 

 

What I am saying is that we are sending out a very strong message that we aren't desperate for the Dyer cash. If you like being desperate, well each to his own. Dyer is a Newcastle player on a very good contract, if he wants away, he could always buy out of it.

 

As far as the post in my thread about "Everything falling into place", tbh, I just couldn't be arsed. I haven't got all day to wind up in circular arguments which end up in "Freddie always backed his managers" or "Remember life before the Shepherd?!!"

 

FYI everything you said on that thread was total bollocks.

 

We are sending out a message that we are wanting 2m more for a player, that we had agreed a fee with. Are we "desperate" for this extra 2m quid, or just showing the rest of football that we can't keep our word ?

 

It's a shame that you can't acknowledge the fact that "Freddie always backed his managers" is, in fact, true, mind. I'm sure that our balancing the books act so far under the new board, that you thought was going to be automatically better, is showing all the signs so far of not backing the manager to a similar degree. Still, I'm sure that isn't true at all, as you say it isn't the case. Particularly as the one person who DOES know, has been expressing his dissatasfaction and frustration at whateve is actually reallly happening.

 

 

[STM]

"That's speculation, but whatever reasons for this debacle, NUFC are at fault."

 

So if tommorow Curbs came out and said "actually we had already agreed terms with dyer without the permission from the club to speak to him and thats why they upped their price" we would still be at fault?

 

YOU TALK SHIT!

[TRon]

Allardyce added: “Either our chief operating officer Russell Cushing or chairman Chris Mort got a phone call which said the player was available.

 

“I asked the price and said “go” and they went. And in 24 hours he was here.

“Russell Cushing and Chris Mort are the reasons Enrique is signing for us rather than Liverpool or Manchester City.”

 

Jimmymag, you can ask massive questions of the board if you want, get Mort struck off if it makes you happy, that above quote is all I'm interested in. Because it dumps all over all the people who have been slagging off the new board prematurely.

 

Carry on Ashley and Mort 

[Guest black]

 

We are sending out a message that we are wanting 2m more for a player, that we had agreed a fee with. Are we "desperate" for this extra 2m quid, or just showing the rest of football that we can't keep our word ?

 

It's a shame that you can't acknowledge the fact that "Freddie always backed his managers" is, in fact, true, mind. I'm sure that our balancing the books act so far under the new board, that you thought was going to be automatically better, is showing all the signs so far of not backing the manager to a similar degree. Still, I'm sure that isn't true at all, as you say it isn't the case. Particularly as the one person who DOES know, has been expressing his dissatasfaction and frustration at whateve is actually reallly happening.

 

 

 

Leaze moving away from the who is better argument, if in fact it is down to the loyalty bonus issue, do you not see the club's stance as something to support?

[buzza]

It seems like we now have a "professional" set up at St James Park and all of this talk about "re-evaluation" of Dyer's price is Bullshiite if you ask me, Sam comments are a smokescreen for one of two things:

-Loyalty bonus of 2 million (Dyer realisticaslly asked for a transfer by crying to Sam about moving south)

-Newcastle have been tricked by West Ham (Tapped up dyer)

[jimmymag]

Jiimymag, Big Sam said the information regarding why we upped our price was confidential so how comes you seem to know?

 

Or is it that infact you don't know and are going out of your way to assume it was a mistake by our club as apposed to West Hams.

 

I've given the steps involved in a footballers transfer in idiot proof detail in an earlier post. Whatever the reason for upping the price, we f***** up!!! End of Story.

 

"End of story" the classic words of someone talking out of their arse.

 

So it isn't possible that we were happy with the price from west ham and then because of some un-explained pissing off behaviour we decided to up our price?

 

For example, if i had found out that we'd accepted a bid from a club that had been tapping up one of our players then i'd be tempted to make them pay more out of spite. We have every right to change our mind on the value of our players.

 

 

As Mick said earlier, this tapping up argument only applies when you actually want to keep the player involved.

 

Regarding "our right to change our mind on the value of our players" , that's totally pathetic. As NE5 said earlier, it makes us look amateurish and leaves us open to the same behaviour from other clubs we deal with in the future.

[TRon]

ashley sending out a message if you ask me. making an example of the deal.

 

we're no one's mugs anymore, dont f*** with us!

 

Sends out another message that we have enough money at the club not to be bothered about losing out Dyer's fee. That is re-assuring in itself and should give critics of the new regime like Invicta and NE5 something to think about.

 

 

To clarify, you think it's OK for the club to be run so Ashley bails it out and either uses his own money or the clubs to keep a player who wants to leave ?

 

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not advocating being an easy touch, it may well be that this increase in the fee is to pay for a loyalty

payment by Dyer, and I would actually be in favour of letting the little b****** rot if this is the case, although as Sam is the manager he will have to do the sensible thing and play him, but I hope he doesn't expect the supporters to accept him fully again after this escapade. You can't chuck money away, and you have to use your players to win games. We have been through this bollocks with Souness and Bellamy, and Robert.

 

I'm asking this of you because you didn't respond to my post in "everything falling into place", number 237, and wonder why exactly you seem to want to make such snide comments about myself - and vicky - and presume for some reason that someone has supported the club for 40 years and not wanted us to be successful, just because we dont' agree with you ? Some people prefer to judge on actions when they see them, rather than wear rose tinted specs.

 

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players personally, and can't see anything wrong with that, can you  ?

 

Unless of course you yourself have limited ambition [bTW this is similar to the last comment you didn't respond to]

 

I think if the clubs have agreed a fee of 6m quid he should stick to his word, and if Dyer has asked for a loyalty bonus then he would be far wiser to forget about it, he must know that setting foot in the quayside again would not be very advisable.

 

 

 

 

What I am saying is that we are sending out a very strong message that we aren't desperate for the Dyer cash. If you like being desperate, well each to his own. Dyer is a Newcastle player on a very good contract, if he wants away, he could always buy out of it.

 

As far as the post in my thread about "Everything falling into place", tbh, I just couldn't be arsed. I haven't got all day to wind up in circular arguments which end up in "Freddie always backed his managers" or "Remember life before the Shepherd?!!"

 

FYI everything you said on that thread was total bollocks.

 

We are sending out a message that we are wanting 2m more for a player, that we had agreed a fee with. Are we "desperate" for this extra 2m quid, or just showing the rest of football that we can't keep our word ?

 

It's a shame that you can't acknowledge the fact that "Freddie always backed his managers" is, in fact, true, mind. I'm sure that our balancing the books act so far under the new board, that you thought was going to be automatically better, is showing all the signs so far of not backing the manager to a similar degree. Still, I'm sure that isn't true at all, as you say it isn't the case. Particularly as the one person who DOES know, has been expressing his dissatasfaction and frustration at whateve is actually reallly happening.

 

 

 

Read the above quote in my last post. Answers all your questions I believe.

[Mick]

 

 

Anything which is anti Shepherd or pro-Ashley is a good post to you.

 

I'm making it clear what I hope happens, not what I think will happen.

 

So far the whole thing looks even more of a book balancing act, and an attempt to be successful on the cheap, or through not speculating. Long term football fans don't need to be told that this approach does not work, and you need your top or quality or trophy signings that the other top clubs want themselves if you have any hope of matching them, never mind beating them.

 

The interference of Ashley in Dyers transfer is amateur, and interfering to such a degree that I'm sure if Shepherd and Hall had done it, you and many others would be harping on and whining about it in spectacular fashion. He has in fact, made himself look like an idiot by doing it, and therefore you and Newcastle fans. At least thats the logic you've used in the past when the hierarchy at the club has followed this path so I presume the same logic follows.

 

 

 

I bet you've been holding onto that for days. 

 

How are we balancing the books?

 

We've spent £14.9 million so far and are within hours of spending another £4.2 million on Enrique and possibly another £2.5 million on Dragu if we can push the deal through.  That will push our spending to £21.6 million so far and we've only brought in £7.2 million with the possibility of us getting £6 million for Dyer if the deal goes through.  That brings our net spending to £8.4 million (£14.4 if we keep Dyer) which is more than we spent 12 months ago and I'd guess it's more than we'd have spent without Ashley owning the club or our £80 million debt would have still been climbing out of control.

 

I don't know what's gone on with the Dyer transfer and neither do you, I think something has happened to change the price and I think it's been something which has had nothing to do with our club, you must know something different to me.  If something has happened then I can't see how Ashley has made himself look like an idiot but I can understand how you'd like it to look that way, it fits your agenda, you're still bitter.

 

[NE5]

If it's true about the loyalty bonus thing the club are probably protecting Dyer because it won't go down well with the fans if he ends up having to stay. There's some speculation that the deal can be revived though.

 

if the deal is revived, and goes through, we will possibly be told.

 

If it isn't, then the board/whoever are going to carry the can to protect dyer ?

 

I can accept what you say, but if the 2nd scenario happens, I wouldn't be happy if I was in their shoes at carrying the can if Dyer doesn't produce the goods for the club on the field, big style.

 

I reckon most fans have gave up on Dyer. I backed him for a canny while because he had the "potential", but have gave up on him now. I gave up on him under Roeder, when he played shit after his initial run of good games and told us all how sorry he was and how much he owed the club and supporters, for the umpteenth time.

 

 

[stozo]

It seems like we now have a "professional" set up at St James Park and all of this talk about "re-evaluation" of Dyer's price is Bullshiite if you ask me, Sam comments are a smokescreen for one of two things:

-Loyalty bonus of 2 million (Dyer realisticaslly asked for a transfer by crying to Sam about moving south)

-Newcastle have been tricked by West Ham (Tapped up dyer)

I think the re-evaluation is bullshit. I think it's far more likely Ashley stepped in ans said to Allardyce and Mort what are you doing selling Dyer for £5m.

[buzza]

I doubt Ashley would step in and over-rule the chairman of the club in that manner...

It really has to be down to something we do not know about and the reason Sam is sticking up for Dyer is so that the weasel can play for us again without getting his house blown up by some radgie who's a bit peturbed over his loyalty (ahem.) bonus desires!!!

[Rebellious]

If it's true about the loyalty bonus thing the club are probably protecting Dyer because it won't go down well with the fans if he ends up having to stay. There's some speculation that the deal can be revived though.

Well said Alex.

how's the mull bowl going?

 

Is it to do with a loyalty bonus? or is it the Sell on clause that has upped the price.

[Mick]

 

For once, I agree with jimmymag. A 6m quid player rotting in the reserves is of no use to us, and a spectacular gaffe by the club.

 

We should have kept our word, unless it is true that Dyer has asked for this money, and if this IS the case, we should make a statement confirming it to be true rather than avoid the mud slinging between us and West Ham. Otherwise - if we have simply stumped up the price for no reason - it is amateur and idiotic.

 

I wouldn't expect Allardyce to replicate what Souness did to Bellamy and not play him if it isn't in the clubs best interests, but it all depends on Dyers state of mind, which none of us know.

 

 

 

All last season we had a £10 million player rotting and he wasn't even getting reserve games most of the time, I can't remember you moaning about him rotting, all you did was moan about the player, I'm sure you were all for him rotting.

 

Why would the club make a statement regarding this when Dyer could still be here this season?  His house and car have just been egged and it would only get worse if the club turned around and said he'd been a greedy bastard, that would be the Souness method, in that respect we've moved on.

 

 

 

[NE5]

 

 

Anything which is anti Shepherd or pro-Ashley is a good post to you.

 

I'm making it clear what I hope happens, not what I think will happen.

 

So far the whole thing looks even more of a book balancing act, and an attempt to be successful on the cheap, or through not speculating. Long term football fans don't need to be told that this approach does not work, and you need your top or quality or trophy signings that the other top clubs want themselves if you have any hope of matching them, never mind beating them.

 

The interference of Ashley in Dyers transfer is amateur, and interfering to such a degree that I'm sure if Shepherd and Hall had done it, you and many others would be harping on and whining about it in spectacular fashion. He has in fact, made himself look like an idiot by doing it, and therefore you and Newcastle fans. At least thats the logic you've used in the past when the hierarchy at the club has followed this path so I presume the same logic follows.

 

 

 

I bet you've been holding onto that for days.   

 

How are we balancing the books?

 

We've spent £14.9 million so far and are within hours of spending another £4.2 million on Enrique and possibly another £2.5 million on Dragu if we can push the deal through.  That will push our spending to £21.6 million so far and we've only brought in £7.2 million with the possibility of us getting £6 million for Dyer if the deal goes through.  That brings our net spending to £8.4 million (£14.4 if we keep Dyer) which is more than we spent 12 months ago and I'd guess it's more than we'd have spent without Ashley owning the club or our £80 million debt would have still been climbing out of control.

 

I don't know what's gone on with the Dyer transfer and neither do you, I think something has happened to change the price and I think it's been something which has had nothing to do with our club , you must know something different to me.  If something has happened then I can't see how Ashley has made himself look like an idiot but I can understand how you'd like it to look that way, it fits your agenda, you're still bitter.

 

 

We bought Smith on the assumption Dyers' sale would go through. Even the biggest numpty can see that, at least I thought even the biggest numpty would see that.

 

See the contradiction in the 2 bold bits ? 

 

An agenda perhaps ? Perhaps instead of accusing others of having "agendas", for instance, anything Anti-Shepherd or Pro-Ashley is OK, you could stop telling us what you "think" and stick to the facts as I have done, because as you quite rightly say, NOBODY knows.

 

If Dyer has asked for a loyalty payment, he's a twat and we should keep him at the club - which means we might have to stand a loss of resources if his attitude is not up to playing - if on the other hand, someone at the club has pushed the price, then they are an arsehole, making all of us look like arseholes [your usual criteria]. These are the 2 scenarios. They are simply stating the current position. And you are right, I am pretty pissed off at both of these scenarios. Aren't you ?   mackems.gif

 

 

[Robster]

If it's true about the loyalty bonus thing the club are probably protecting Dyer because it won't go down well with the fans if he ends up having to stay. There's some speculation that the deal can be revived though.

Well said Alex.

how's the mull bowl going?

 

Is it to do with a loyalty bonus? or is it the Sell on clause that has upped the price.

 

I would say neither. Something new has come to light just before he signed that has caused this problem

[Guest black]

If it's true about the loyalty bonus thing the club are probably protecting Dyer because it won't go down well with the fans if he ends up having to stay. There's some speculation that the deal can be revived though.

Well said Alex.

how's the mull bowl going?

 

Is it to do with a loyalty bonus? or is it the Sell on clause that has upped the price.

 

I would say neither. Something new has come to light just before he signed that has caused this problem

Tell you what Alex is going to be pissed off if it's his bowl that has caused all this trouble!

[Mick]

 

We are sending out a message that we are wanting 2m more for a player, that we had agreed a fee with. Are we "desperate" for this extra 2m quid, or just showing the rest of football that we can't keep our word ?

 

It's a shame that you can't acknowledge the fact that "Freddie always backed his managers" is, in fact, true, mind. I'm sure that our balancing the books act so far under the new board, that you thought was going to be automatically better, is showing all the signs so far of not backing the manager to a similar degree. Still, I'm sure that isn't true at all, as you say it isn't the case. Particularly as the one person who DOES know, has been expressing his dissatasfaction and frustration at whateve is actually reallly happening.

 

 

 

Freddy backed Roeder less than Mort has so far backed Allardyce, at least that will be the case when we sign the bloke who has just travelled over from Spain, FACT.

 

Again you mention balancing the books.  

[Robster]

If it's true about the loyalty bonus thing the club are probably protecting Dyer because it won't go down well with the fans if he ends up having to stay. There's some speculation that the deal can be revived though.

Well said Alex.

how's the mull bowl going?

 

Is it to do with a loyalty bonus? or is it the Sell on clause that has upped the price.

 

I would say neither. Something new has come to light just before he signed that has caused this problem

 

Or should I say I think something new has come to light as I have no inside information in case people were wondering

[NE5]

 

For once, I agree with jimmymag. A 6m quid player rotting in the reserves is of no use to us, and a spectacular gaffe by the club.

 

We should have kept our word, unless it is true that Dyer has asked for this money, and if this IS the case, we should make a statement confirming it to be true rather than avoid the mud slinging between us and West Ham. Otherwise - if we have simply stumped up the price for no reason - it is amateur and idiotic.

 

I wouldn't expect Allardyce to replicate what Souness did to Bellamy and not play him if it isn't in the clubs best interests, but it all depends on Dyers state of mind, which none of us know.

 

 

 

All last season we had a £10 million player rotting and he wasn't even getting reserve games most of the time, I can't remember you moaning about him rotting, all you did was moan about the player, I'm sure you were all for him rotting.

 

Why would the club make a statement regarding this when Dyer could still be here this season?  His house and car have just been egged and it would only get worse if the club turned around and said he'd been a greedy bastard, that would be the Souness method, in that respect we've moved on.

 

 

Luque ? I don't remember me saying anything other than we should not have bought him, and he wasn't good enough. Do you think we should be playing players who aren't good enough ? mackems.gif

 

So far as your 2nd sentence goes, I hope it convinces him that he should bugger off and forget about his "loyalty bonus" IF this IS the reason for the deal being pulled.

 

Basically, if it ISN'T, why aren't the club telling us specifically what DID happen to protect him, now that this is happening ?

 

Dangerous ground here, asking you what you think like