José Enrique

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I do, but in my opinion he's an exceptional case. Wouldn't have been a sign of weakness to offer him more money. Contracts mean nothing.

 

I guess Ashley thought it would be a sign of weakness to renegotiate the contract of a young, relatively unproven player so soon after he'd already had a new deal.

 

If that was his view, I totally understand it.

 

Like you say though, the alternative being £35m coming in wasn't going to help them make an exception.

[Colocho]

I do, but in my opinion he's an exceptional case. Wouldn't have been a sign of weakness to offer him more money. Contracts mean nothing.

 

I guess Ashley thought it would be a sign of weakness to renegotiate the contract of a young, relatively unproven player so soon after he'd already had a new deal.

 

If that was his view, I totally understand it.

 

Like you say though, the alternative being £35m coming in wasn't going to help them make an exception.

 

I understand the principle, it's not an example teh club would want to set.

 

I just feel an player such as Carroll is one to make an exception for. Even the modern footballer is intelligent enough to realise their importance to a side, if it was a Simpson, Gosling, Guthrie type player making such demands then it goes without saying they would be sold.

[Guest Roger Kint]

I do, but in my opinion he's an exceptional case. Wouldn't have been a sign of weakness to offer him more money. Contracts mean nothing.

 

It's irrelevant though ... at the end of the day, they wanted to accept the £35 million.

 

Nobody is agruing the club wanted the money.

 

As for Carroll the fact they were open to talking about a new contract in the summer was more than enough given the circumstances, that would have made it 3 wage rises in 18 months and perfectly acceptable for any player.

[alpal78]

No we came off badly because we lost a Geordie striker with the potential to be the fulcrum of our side for the next ten years. We can't replace that because unfortunately the likes of Carroll come round once or twice in a generation, if you're lucky.

 

This.

No we came off badly because we lost a Geordie striker with the potential to be the fulcrum of our side for the next ten years. We can't replace that because unfortunately the likes of Carroll come round once or twice in a generation, if you're lucky.

 

if we use that 35M wisely including investing in a top striker (there are quite a few around who is actually better than Carroll), then I don't give a tosh if the one banging in the goals for us is Geordie or not. Those are just emotional niceties which has no bearing on the club's performance.

No we came off badly because we lost a Geordie striker with the potential to be the fulcrum of our side for the next ten years. We can't replace that because unfortunately the likes of Carroll come round once or twice in a generation, if you're lucky.

 

if we use that 35M wisely including investing in a top striker (there are quite a few around who is actually better than Carroll), then I don't give a tosh if the one banging in the goals for us is Geordie or not. Those are just emotional niceties which has no bearing on the club's performance.

 

I agree the fact he is a Geordie is neither here nor there, but Carroll's potential value to us went way, way beyond what Liverpool paid for him.

I'm assuming you are suggesting we could attract one of these "better" strikers you mention. I'd be interested to know who you're talking about.

 

On your second question, too many if you are willing to look outside the Premier league.

 

On your first question, I don't know whether or not we can attract these better players, if we don't get in someone at least as good as Carroll in the summer, then we would have done poorly but like I said that's because we didn't replace him not because we sold a striker whose had half a good season of premiership for 35M

 

Sorry, but how can you call Carroll's sale good business if it hinges on what you acknowledge is a likely inability to attract a better striker?

 

I'd still like to know the identity of these better strikers. Better in terms of stats and experience, perhaps. But a better bet in this league than Carroll? I guess you'd have nominated Dzeko before he went to City...

 

I said I don't know, I have not acknowledged that we won't be able to get a better striker. Too many variables involved, one year ago who would have expected that we would have players like Tiote & HBA and on the cheap too. For their respective positions, both belong in a better bracket than Carroll was as a striker at least based on what we have seen so far (which admittedly in the case of HBA is not much)

 

Yes regardless of Dzeko's poor/average start for City, I still think that he has the makings of a better player than Carroll. He has not set the Premiership alight but that is always the case with foreign players...remember our own Coloccini & Enrique? You think Carroll is better than Dzeko???

 

It's hard to judge Carroll's real ability based on 6 months in the Premiership, at times he has been unplayable and at other times distinctly average. I will need to see him for at least another season to decide where he stands and his potential. IMO Liverpool will be a good test for him, because he will get decent service, and then we can see how good he really is or whether the last 6 months was a flash in the pan. I of course hope it will be the latter. 

[Guest Pie]

I give up. If people want to believe that we did everything possible to keep Carroll and made it absolutely clear to him that we wanted him more than we wanted the cash then that's their prerogative.

I wasn't there so I can't say for certain. I'm fairly certain it would take a very big lad to force him into a helicopter. I'm also happy to call him a cunt.

[fredbob]

Is it unfair to say that in the glossy, money orientated world of top flight football that "club identity"means precisely fuck all nowadays?! Not my choice but isn't it a reality?

 

If it is a reality then isn't all this nostalgic, fairytale nonsense completely and utterly irrelevant? All clubs have there iconic numbers and traditions but they're quickly set aside when reality kicks in.

 

I see a lot of people pumping out the figure £60k as though its a reasonalbe healthy compromise for all parties concerned when the reality is that it isn't at all. With that in mind, should the club adhere to the players demand or as stated take a step back and re negotiate in the summer...

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I give up. If people want to believe that we did everything possible to keep Carroll and made it absolutely clear to him that we wanted him more than we wanted the cash then that's their prerogative.

I wasn't there so I can't say for certain. I'm fairly certain it would take a very big lad to force him into a helicopter. I'm also happy to call him a cunt.

 

Also, very much depends on what you mean by "everything possible".

 

The club could have (a) refused to even let him speak to Liverpool and rejected all the bids and (b) offered him £100k a week.

[Guest Pie]

I give up. If people want to believe that we did everything possible to keep Carroll and made it absolutely clear to him that we wanted him more than we wanted the cash then that's their prerogative.

I wasn't there so I can't say for certain. I'm fairly certain it would take a very big lad to force him into a helicopter. I'm also happy to call him a cunt.

 

Also, very much depends on what you mean by "everything possible".

 

The club could have (a) refused to even let him speak to Liverpool and rejected all the bids and (b) offered him £100k a week.

Greedy cunt had just happily signed a new contract so I am pretty sure he was after the filthy lucre.

 

Liverpool have a history but they are never going to dominate the way they used to. So perhaps he was after medals but I doubt it. Mercenary cunt. Like them all.

[Colocho]

I give up. If people want to believe that we did everything possible to keep Carroll and made it absolutely clear to him that we wanted him more than we wanted the cash then that's their prerogative.

 

Unfortunately the PR machine at this club will continue to blind the masses.

[SEMTEX]

Fucking hippy

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I give up. If people want to believe that we did everything possible to keep Carroll and made it absolutely clear to him that we wanted him more than we wanted the cash then that's their prerogative.

 

Unfortunately the PR machine at this club will continue to blind the masses.

 

Howay both of you, it's just childish to reduce opposing arguments like this.

 

There have been a lot of reasonable posts about the club's actions, for and against. Sniping like this is stupid.

 

Also, Ashley has the worst PR machine ever, I doubt it's capable of blinding anyone to anything!

[alpal78]

Bad omens: The Enrique thread has prematurely turned into the Carroll thread!

 

Poor Jose hasn't even got a mention on this page!

 

I agree let's go back to Enrique, discussion on Carroll can be posted in his thread. Let's not sully the name of Enrique with the cunt Carroll! 

[Guest Antec]

We should definitely sell Enrique, just think what we could do with the money. He's easily replaced, there are dozens of better left backs out there, just don't ask me to name them

[Guest palnese]

We should definitely sell Enrique, just think what we could do with the money. He's easily replaced, there are dozens of better left backs out there, just don't ask me to name them

 

Please do.

[alpal78]

We should definitely sell Enrique, just think what we could do with the money. He's easily replaced, there are dozens of better left backs out there, just don't ask me to name them

 

who said that? Shit strawman argument there.

 

For what it's worth, I think Enrique is a better LB than Carroll is as a striker so it would be more difficult to find a replacement for Enrique.

[Colocho]

I give up. If people want to believe that we did everything possible to keep Carroll and made it absolutely clear to him that we wanted him more than we wanted the cash then that's their prerogative.

 

Unfortunately the PR machine at this club will continue to blind the masses.

 

Howay both of you, it's just childish to reduce opposing arguments like this.

 

There have been a lot of reasonable posts about the club's actions, for and against. Sniping like this is stupid.

 

Also, Ashley has the worst PR machine ever, I doubt it's capable of blinding anyone to anything!

 

You say that as thousands join "Andy Carroll is a Judas cunt" groups on Facebook, and rush back their renewal packs.

 

We should definitely sell Enrique, just think what we could do with the money. He's easily replaced, there are dozens of better left backs out there, just don't ask me to name them

 

Herita Illunga.

[Guest Antec]

We should definitely sell Enrique, just think what we could do with the money. He's easily replaced, there are dozens of better left backs out there, just don't ask me to name them

 

who said that? Shit strawman argument there.

 

For what it's worth, I think Enrique is a better LB than Carroll is as a striker so it would be more difficult to find a replacement for Enrique.

 

Errrr I said that

 

Have you figured out who all  these strikers are yet who are better than Carroll? Of course they'll have to be fairly cheap and on low wages too. Over to you, take your time. 5 or 6 names will do to start off withh

[80]

It's not even about great players though, often it's not even local players but those have come through the ranks at a club, they are the identity of that club. Why did Guti survive longer than every galactico?

 

Alex Ferguson is the master at it. He's not handing out contract after contract to Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea because they're the best he can get, he could find a better player than those three in a second but they are more important to him than any Ronaldo because that is how he has maintained a winning mentality at the same club for 20 years.

 

If the players are world class like Giggs then even better, two birds with one stone. That's why Ferguson is the best ever because of the culture he has maintained, far more than any tactics or transfers.

 

NUFC selling off not only good players but ones who we have produced makes me feel absolutely sick. It still cuts me up to see Michael Carrick playing elsewhere, Carroll will break me. Fastest track to achieving fuck all.

 

Excellent post, highlights the folly of this idea we could and should just turn over players and expect to keep finding new ones who'll play just as well as the previous squads.

 

When you pursue a development strategy with a club like ours, you find a good player and you hold on for grim death. Players like Enrique are players you do break any supposed wage cap for because they're absolutely blue chip - players you know will earn their wages and help make sure others will earn theirs, too. They have experience which is literally unobtainable elsewhere because they earned it here. It's one thing to limit offers made to new signings - they're unproven and could end up like Smith, so you want to limit the potential damage, but when they've proven themselves to be special, you make the necessary accommodations and harness the momentum instead of squandering it.

[colinmk]

It's not even about great players though, often it's not even local players but those have come through the ranks at a club, they are the identity of that club. Why did Guti survive longer than every galactico?

 

Alex Ferguson is the master at it. He's not handing out contract after contract to Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea because they're the best he can get, he could find a better player than those three in a second but they are more important to him than any Ronaldo because that is how he has maintained a winning mentality at the same club for 20 years.

 

If the players are world class like Giggs then even better, two birds with one stone. That's why Ferguson is the best ever because of the culture he has maintained, far more than any tactics or transfers.

 

NUFC selling off not only good players but ones who we have produced makes me feel absolutely sick. It still cuts me up to see Michael Carrick playing elsewhere, Carroll will break me. Fastest track to achieving fuck all.

 

Excellent post, highlights the folly of this idea we could and should just turn over players and expect to keep finding new ones who'll play just as well as the previous squads.

 

When you pursue a development strategy with a club like ours, you find a good player and you hold on for grim death. Players like Enrique are players you do break any supposed wage cap for because they're absolutely blue chip - players you know will earn their wages and help make sure others will earn theirs, too. They have experience which is literally unobtainable elsewhere because they earned it here. It's one thing to limit offers made to new signings - they're unproven and could end up like Smith, so you want to limit the potential damage, but when they've proven themselves to be special, you make the necessary accommodations and harness the momentum instead of squandering it.

 

Spot on.

[Colocho]

Will be interesting to see where our only saleable assets (anytime soon) Enrique, Tiote and Ben Arfa are in 2 years time. If they are still here, I'll believe we aren't a 'selling club'.

 

It's not even about great players though, often it's not even local players but those have come through the ranks at a club, they are the identity of that club. Why did Guti survive longer than every galactico?

 

Alex Ferguson is the master at it. He's not handing out contract after contract to Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea because they're the best he can get, he could find a better player than those three in a second but they are more important to him than any Ronaldo because that is how he has maintained a winning mentality at the same club for 20 years.

 

If the players are world class like Giggs then even better, two birds with one stone. That's why Ferguson is the best ever because of the culture he has maintained, far more than any tactics or transfers.

 

NUFC selling off not only good players but ones who we have produced makes me feel absolutely sick. It still cuts me up to see Michael Carrick playing elsewhere, Carroll will break me. Fastest track to achieving fuck all.

 

Excellent post, highlights the folly of this idea we could and should just turn over players and expect to keep finding new ones who'll play just as well as the previous squads.

 

When you pursue a development strategy with a club like ours, you find a good player and you hold on for grim death. Players like Enrique are players you do break any supposed wage cap for because they're absolutely blue chip - players you know will earn their wages and help make sure others will earn theirs, too. They have experience which is literally unobtainable elsewhere because they earned it here. It's one thing to limit offers made to new signings - they're unproven and could end up like Smith, so you want to limit the potential damage, but when they've proven themselves to be special, you make the necessary accommodations and harness the momentum instead of squandering it.

 

Two great posts.

[Guest Antec]

It's not even about great players though, often it's not even local players but those have come through the ranks at a club, they are the identity of that club. Why did Guti survive longer than every galactico?

 

Alex Ferguson is the master at it. He's not handing out contract after contract to Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea because they're the best he can get, he could find a better player than those three in a second but they are more important to him than any Ronaldo because that is how he has maintained a winning mentality at the same club for 20 years.

 

If the players are world class like Giggs then even better, two birds with one stone. That's why Ferguson is the best ever because of the culture he has maintained, far more than any tactics or transfers.

 

NUFC selling off not only good players but ones who we have produced makes me feel absolutely sick. It still cuts me up to see Michael Carrick playing elsewhere, Carroll will break me. Fastest track to achieving fuck all.

 

Excellent post, highlights the folly of this idea we could and should just turn over players and expect to keep finding new ones who'll play just as well as the previous squads.

 

When you pursue a development strategy with a club like ours, you find a good player and you hold on for grim death. Players like Enrique are players you do break any supposed wage cap for because they're absolutely blue chip - players you know will earn their wages and help make sure others will earn theirs, too. They have experience which is literally unobtainable elsewhere because they earned it here. It's one thing to limit offers made to new signings - they're unproven and could end up like Smith, so you want to limit the damage, but when they've proven themselves to be special, you make the necessary accommodations and harness the momentum instead of squandering it.

 

Spot on, unless the club isn't looking to progress of course

[taxfree]

It's not even about great players though, often it's not even local players but those have come through the ranks at a club, they are the identity of that club. Why did Guti survive longer than every galactico?

 

Alex Ferguson is the master at it. He's not handing out contract after contract to Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea because they're the best he can get, he could find a better player than those three in a second but they are more important to him than any Ronaldo because that is how he has maintained a winning mentality at the same club for 20 years.

 

If the players are world class like Giggs then even better, two birds with one stone. That's why Ferguson is the best ever because of the culture he has maintained, far more than any tactics or transfers.

 

NUFC selling off not only good players but ones who we have produced makes me feel absolutely sick. It still cuts me up to see Michael Carrick playing elsewhere, Carroll will break me. Fastest track to achieving f*** all.

 

Excellent post, highlights the folly of this idea we could and should just turn over players and expect to keep finding new ones who'll play just as well as the previous squads.

 

When you pursue a development strategy with a club like ours, you find a good player and you hold on for grim death. Players like Enrique are players you do break any supposed wage cap for because they're absolutely blue chip - players you know will earn their wages and help make sure others will earn theirs, too. They have experience which is literally unobtainable elsewhere because they earned it here. It's one thing to limit offers made to new signings - they're unproven and could end up like Smith, so you want to limit the potential damage, but when they've proven themselves to be special, you make the necessary accommodations and harness the momentum instead of squandering it.

 

Two posts I'm 100 % behind. 

[TRon]

It's not even about great players though, often it's not even local players but those have come through the ranks at a club, they are the identity of that club. Why did Guti survive longer than every galactico?

 

Alex Ferguson is the master at it. He's not handing out contract after contract to Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea because they're the best he can get, he could find a better player than those three in a second but they are more important to him than any Ronaldo because that is how he has maintained a winning mentality at the same club for 20 years.

 

If the players are world class like Giggs then even better, two birds with one stone. That's why Ferguson is the best ever because of the culture he has maintained, far more than any tactics or transfers.

 

NUFC selling off not only good players but ones who we have produced makes me feel absolutely sick. It still cuts me up to see Michael Carrick playing elsewhere, Carroll will break me. Fastest track to achieving fuck all.

 

Excellent post, highlights the folly of this idea we could and should just turn over players and expect to keep finding new ones who'll play just as well as the previous squads.

 

When you pursue a development strategy with a club like ours, you find a good player and you hold on for grim death. Players like Enrique are players you do break any supposed wage cap for because they're absolutely blue chip - players you know will earn their wages and help make sure others will earn theirs, too. They have experience which is literally unobtainable elsewhere because they earned it here. It's one thing to limit offers made to new signings - they're unproven and could end up like Smith, so you want to limit the potential damage, but when they've proven themselves to be special, you make the necessary accommodations and harness the momentum instead of squandering it.

 

Two cracking posts, although I think the situations are very different. Carroll went for an astronomical fee which it could be argued will be used to develop a much stronger all round squad. The money we will get for Enrique will be peanuts. £8m tops would be my guess and for that we will end up buying an inferior player.

[Colocho]

According to the papers we won't accept less than £12m for Enrique.  

[Yorkie]