Yet another wasted season!

[Dave]

So he wants material success this season. This from a club that was massively in debt, finished 13th last year, has no European football to offer prospective targets and has a completely new setup on and off the field. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

 

You honestly can't see the frankly ridiculous impatience there?

[Wullie]

We have a much much stronger squad this season, in terms of numbers too - because the players brought in can play in any of a number of positions, unlike many of the ones going out. We've also got a certain number 10 to add to that.

[Kitman]

Waste of bandwidth this thread. The OP doesn't make any worthy points whatsoever. We have a bigger pool of players than we've had for many a year.

 

Would like you to expand on that if poss. I would have said that if anything we have smaller numbers than even last years swiss cheese squad by my reckoning, and that didn't hold up to much scrutiny once the inevitable (yes, even for the magic healing hands of Sam) injuries kick in. Maybe an increase in general quality and the ability of a few players to 'do a job' in a few positions counts for something, but the paucity of numbers should not be ignored.

 

So far, not counting the (it seems) inevitable departure of Luque, we are 4 players down on last season available to us in terms of experienced players, and 6 if you include the likes of Gate and Shanks. That rwill emain a concern (and that is all it is) until some bright spark fromn the academy hits the first team, or the shortfalls are addressed.

 

That, is the point I take fromm BB's post. Hardly something to get hot under the collar about, or in the case of Chez and others to become hateful little trolls about.

 

 

Supporters will always want more quality/quantity or whatever. At the same time it is a bit lax not taking into consideration the advances we are clearly beginning to make and are planning to make all over the club.

 

As I have said many times, there are a lot of positives and we all have our fingers crossed. If Sam is not sacked (and that is basically what it hinges on, otherwise we are possibly back to square one next season), and if we get through this year intact trophy or not, then we will hopefully be able to say this season is not a waste and the club is more stable and able to continue to progress under the new team.

 

But that is not what BB focused on. His concern was simply whether this squad we currently have is good enough to get us material success this current season, not some 'maybe in a few years down the line success', and in his opinion it is not. I hope he is wrong, and more than anything hope it doesn't really matter as long as we have the right things in place to get there eventually, but I don't see the big deal in bringing those concerns to the table.

 

Depends what you and the OP call material success.  Personally I think it's unreasonable with new owners, a new manager, a load of new players and a new set up to expect anything other than a bit of progress on the pitch and a better standing in the table in the first season under SA.  Especially against the backdrop of clubs with a lot more money to spend from Sky and wealthy new owners, plus we're not in Europe.

 

However there seem to be fans out there who expect a lot more and define a wasted season as not winning anything.  Well welcome to the last 37 years.  If Shepherd taught us anything, it's that throwing money at high profile signings to please the fans got us absolutely nowhere.  Granted our squad needs improvement, at right back above all imo, but Rome wasn't built in a day and Big Sam isn't a miracle worker, he inherited a shit tip from Roeder.  I can understand how Chez feels because there are plenty of people out there who build well rounded expensive squads on FM and expect the Toon to do the same.  Cos it's easy, isn't it?

 

Anyone expecting a sudden transformation into the next Chelsea needs their head looking at.  Nobody has that sort of money and unless and until we become more successful and glamorous, we won't be able to attract the sort of players for every position that people want.  It's a long term project and it's also a tad naive to expect someone to come in and pump in squillions into a debt ridden club whose wage bill and spending has been out of control.  That doesn't mean we won't get substantial investment in the longer term, it's just there may not be instant gratification.

 

Writing off the season after 2 games isn't too clever as far as I'm concerned (haven't read through the thread so apologies to the OP if that's not his point).  People should have a bit of patience imo.  Personally I want to see improvement, progress, a sense of direction, steady investment......I don't expect us to become world beaters overnight.

[Guest Hodgson09]

much better equipped this season. I would have liked to see Ashley splash a bit more of his cash though, but I guess instant success is not in his plans, which when I subtract the illogical thinking of a desperate fan makes complete sense.

 

Viduka, Smith, Capcapa, Enrique, Rozenhal, Geremi, Barton.

 

That is a great start, a few more defenders and we will be a strong team, I cannot wait until Barton is fit I think we will look class then.

[BottledDog]

So he wants material success this season. This from a club that was massively in debt, finished 13th last year, has no European football to offer prospective targets and has a completely new setup on and off the field. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

 

You honestly can't see the frankly ridiculous impatience there?

 

Honestly? To a degree. But don't we all go into the season wishing to win something?

 

Sure it's unrealistic, but there are not many years left for some of us, and while I'm willing to give them every chance, and hope they afford Sam the same patience, I can certainly understand some being a little frustrated when the promised wealth of this new regime is not as yet manifest in the area of squad building as we might have (again, maybe urealistically) been led to believe. You honestly can't see that having not spent a great deal in the greater scheme of things (new owners, new TV deals etc.) that some might have a wish to see a little more being spent in order to plug the gaps and give us some depth to have a real go at competing this year? I don't have a problem with that opinion at all, however optimistic of our chances it is. It's not like BB is in a position to sack the board or do damage to the club.

 

 

/BB simply demands the best, and that's just the kind of spunky, up and at 'em young buck I want in my company. Go get 'em tiger! *cough*

//...

///too much wine for a Thursday. :/

[Kitman]

Honestly? To a degree. But don't we all go into the season wishing to win something?

 

Sure it's unrealistic, but there are not many years left for some of us, and while I'm willing to give them every chance, and hope they afford Sam the same patience, I can certainly understand some being a little frustrated when the promised wealth of this new regime is not as yet manifest in the area of squad building as we might have (again, maybe urealistically) been led to believe. You honestly can't see that having not spent a great deal in the greater scheme of things (new owners, new TV deals etc.) that some might have a wish to see a little more being spent in order to plug the gaps and give us some depth to have a real go at competing this year? I don't have a problem with that opinion at all, however optimistic of our chances it is. It's not like BB is in a position to sack the board or do damage to the club.

 

 

 

 

/He simply demands the best, and that's just the kind of spunky, up and at 'em young buck I want in my company. Go get 'em tiger! *cough*

//...

////too much wine for a Thursday. :/

 

I guess it's the difference between hope and expectation.  Every season I hope we'll win something, but I don't expect us to.  Maybe if I supported Man Utd or Chelsea I'd expect it.

 

FWIW I think we're heading in the right direction, I think SA is cannily rebuilding the squad, so I don't see this as a wasted season waiting to happen at all.  Maybe after the January transfer window would be a better time to start complaining.  Anyone writing off the season before it's begun should really expect to get shot at imo.

[BottledDog]

Honestly? To a degree. But don't we all go into the season wishing to win something?

 

Sure it's unrealistic, but there are not many years left for some of us, and while I'm willing to give them every chance, and hope they afford Sam the same patience, I can certainly understand some being a little frustrated when the promised wealth of this new regime is not as yet manifest in the area of squad building as we might have (again, maybe urealistically) been led to believe. You honestly can't see that having not spent a great deal in the greater scheme of things (new owners, new TV deals etc.) that some might have a wish to see a little more being spent in order to plug the gaps and give us some depth to have a real go at competing this year? I don't have a problem with that opinion at all, however optimistic of our chances it is. It's not like BB is in a position to sack the board or do damage to the club.

 

 

 

 

/He simply demands the best, and that's just the kind of spunky, up and at 'em young buck I want in my company. Go get 'em tiger! *cough*

//...

////too much wine for a Thursday. :/

 

I guess it's the difference between hope and expectation.  Every season I hope we'll win something, but I don't expect us to.  Maybe if I supported Man Utd or Chelsea I'd expect it.

 

FWIW I think we're heading in the right direction, I think SA is cannily rebuilding the squad, so I don't see this as a wasted season waiting to happen at all.  Maybe after the January transfer window would be a better time to start complaining.  Anyone writing off the season before it's begun should really expect to get shot at imo.

 

I doubt the OP expects to win things, just thinks that with a little extra push we could significantly improve our chances to end the drought, which is fair enough.

 

All the other predictions of success beyond this season seem to rely wholly on Sam lasting the distance and building year on year which at this stage it could be argued is not far removed from being just as much of a hopeful dream (with as much basis in reality or our history) as someone wishing for the club to actually push on and win something or make Europe in the coming year I would have thought.

 

Either way, can't see the need for personal attacks on the guy. Bottoms up. G'night.  :drunken_smilie:

[Guest black]

So he wants material success this season. This from a club that was massively in debt, finished 13th last year, has no European football to offer prospective targets and has a completely new setup on and off the field. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

 

You honestly can't see the frankly ridiculous impatience there?

 

Honestly? To a degree. But don't we all go into the season wishing to win something?

 

Sure it's unrealistic, but there are not many years left for some of us, and while I'm willing to give them every chance, and hope they afford Sam the same patience, I can certainly understand some being a little frustrated when the promised wealth of this new regime is not as yet manifest in the area of squad building as we might have (again, maybe urealistically) been led to believe. You honestly can't see that having not spent a great deal in the greater scheme of things (new owners, new TV deals etc.) that some might have a wish to see a little more being spent in order to plug the gaps and give us some depth to have a real go at competing this year? I don't have a problem with that opinion at all, however optimistic of our chances it is. It's not like BB is in a position to sack the board or do damage to the club.

 

 

/BB simply demands the best, and that's just the kind of spunky, up and at 'em young buck I want in my company. Go get 'em tiger! *cough*

//...

///too much wine for a Thursday. :/

 

I remember not long after SA was signed as manager in one of his interviews he talked about expectation, the long term goals and the goals for this season and although it was before Ashley bought the club, I distinctly remember SA stating the goal for this season was a marked improvement in the league and to concentrate upon the cup competitions because they were logical and achievable route into European football for season 08/09. He also spoke about how until NUFC once again had European football a lot of the club's first choice transfer targets wouldn't be easy to sign.

[Offshore]

To be fair it isn't just our fans who have high expections for us this season, we're included in the group of teams by the 'experts' that are expected to be competing for 5th spot. So for someone to not be too chuffed with what he's seeing shouldn't be all that surprising.

 

 

I think I sit midway on this, on one hand i'm ultra happy what is happening off the pitch and realise you can't do a short fix to a long term problem. However, I didn't like what I saw against Villa, yes we appear to be sorting out the defence, but by fuck was it uncomfortable to watch. Yes, I know why he picked the team (midfield) for that game, as we're short of any flair atm, but I hope that its a short term thing until either Emre or Barton (or new attacking midfielder that comes in) can get us playing football that plays to our forwards strength.

 

 

[Guest Brazilianbob]

I still believe Sam.Bolton didnt buy many world class players but they did excellent job,besides there're still 9days beford the deadline,so its early to say we cant sign world class players.

 

I wouldn't say the likes of JJ Okocha, Hierro, Campo etc were not world class.  Granted they were all the wrong side of 30 but still world class nevertheless.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

So he wants material success this season. This from a club that was massively in debt, finished 13th last year, has no European football to offer prospective targets and has a completely new setup on and off the field. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

 

You honestly can't see the frankly ridiculous impatience there?

 

We see the likes of Manu, Man City, and Liverpool bought by billionaires and they have all splashed splashed around £40m to £50m each on quality players this season.  Granted two of them are in europe, but Man City are not and they appear to have spent hugely and wisely so far.  Even Fulham have spent more than us this summer!

 

We are bought by a billionaire, and far from matching their spending, we fail to even match the spending of our much maligned former chairman.

 

I have more faith in Allardyce than most of you give me credit for, but my main point in starting this thread is to discuss how many more false dawns will we see at NUFC.

 

I am not saying this will be a false dawn, but I have yet to be convinced because we have been here before, and having removed my black and white tinted glasses, I simply wonder whether we will be in any better state, squad wise next season.

 

Don't forget, if we fail to get into Europe at the end of this season,  it's likely Owen will be off, Viduka isn't getting any slimmer or younger, Martins may or may not still have a buy out clause, so he could be off too, and we are left with Ameobi.  Those are the very real possibilities and consequences of our failure to invest more heavily in the playing staff.  I see just now that we can't even afford to buy Faye from Bolton for £2m  whats that all about? 

[Dave]

There's far more to success than simply spending large amounts of money. Surely a Newcastle fan knows this more than any other.

 

City have had a good start and nothing more, we're two/three matches in man.

[Unbelievable]

Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we?

 

was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate...

 

nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million

 

If spending money means nothing (i.e. doesn't increase the chances of success), do you believe that Chelsea would have been champions twice in the last three seasons without Abramovic's oil dollars?

 

If spending money means everything, do you believe that Bolton would be in the UEFA Cup this season?

 

A lot of people seem to have completely misunderstood the point. I was arguing that "spending money means nothing" to the chances (statistically) of success is obviously nonsense. It's nothing to do with being in the CL, having finished 2nd or Bolton being in the Uefa. Me saying "spending money means nothing" is wrong does not mean I say "spending money means everything". Some classes of logic wouldn't go amiss on some it seems..

[BlueStar]

There are valid points being made about problems and potential problems we have at the moment.  But no doubt Sam can see those issues as well. Until he's consistantly shown himself to have a Roeder-style inability to see what everyone else in the ground can see is the reason we aren't making chances, or a Souness style refusal to make changes which will rectify it, it's absurd to look at one performance, one formation, one set of tactics against one type of club with one selection of players and say the entire season is a write off because this is how it is and this is how it always will be.

[Guest johnson293]

There are valid points being made about problems and potential problems we have at the moment.  But no doubt Sam can see those issues as well. Until he's consistantly shown himself to have a Roeder-style inability to see what everyone else in the ground can see is the reason we aren't making chances, or a Souness style refusal to make changes which will rectify it, it's absurd to look at one performance, one formation, one set of tactics against one type of club with one selection of players and say the entire season is a write off because this is how it is and this is how it always will be.

 

^ Agree with this

[BONTEMPI]

FFS you moaning whingers get right on my bell end sometimes!

 

If we beat the smogs sunday, we will be joint 2nd with chelsea!

 

Your all acting like we've lost 4 on the bounce or something! Fucking hell I think some of you need to stop playing FM so much because you seem to think your experts at managing a football club

 

 

Get a grip moaning minnies!

[jimmymag]

The post Sky generation of "supporters" make me laugh. Trying not to sound too much like Leazes, you should have seen the shite served up by NUFC pre Keegan.

 

The fact is this club has lost a hell of a lot of ground since the disgraceful sacking of SBR, and for the first time since then I can see the club starting to move in the right direction.

 

Sam's the right man for the job and, because the vast majority of fans feel the same, he's in a very strong position to put pressure on the board for the funds he feels he requires, because the jury's still out regarding Ashley's intentions.

 

Sam seems satisfied with the backing he's getting at the moment and he's on record as saying it's going to take time to get things right here. The main thing Newcastle United supporters need is patience, I suggest some of you start exercising it.

[Guest black]

FFS you moaning whingers get right on my bell end sometimes!

 

If we beat the smogs sunday, we will be joint 2nd with chelsea!

 

Your all acting like we've lost 4 on the bounce or something! Fucking hell I think some of you need to stop playing FM so much because you seem to think your experts at managing a football club

 

 

Get a grip moaning minnies!

 

As much as I'd rather see the toon on top, I fucking hope we're not joint 2nd with Chelsea, I've got good money @ 5/1 for Chelsea to be top of the league at the end of August!

[McCormick]

 

i understand people's frustration, that our spending has paled in comparison some of the other billionaire owners, but if we paid the current market price for the players we got on free (i'd estimate 9 mil for viduka, 6 mil for geremi and 3.5 mil for cacapa) would people be happy then?

[Mowen]

Is 9m for Viduka your honest guess at his market value?

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

No one would pay £9M for Viduka.

[Parky]

No one would pay £9M for Viduka.

 

At his age his market value is aroung £5-£6m.

[McCormick]

No one would pay £9M for Viduka.

 

At his age his market value is aroung £5-£6m.

 

Viduka's a good player, if he was still on contract boro wouldn't let him leave for anything under 8mil. (especially to us)

Took into account inflation aswell

[ChezGiven]

That, is the point I take fromm BB's post. Hardly something to get hot under the collar about, or in the case of Chez and others to become hateful little cunts about.

 

You're ignoring the fact he says this season is a write-off already then?

 

Wish he'd told me like, I'd have saved £250.

 

I'd also like BD to explain how pointing out when someone is over £163m out in their estimation of what Ashley has spent and implying they hadnt even thought about what they posted makes me a 'hateful little cunt'.

 

Thats abusive imo. Can BD also point out where i was abusive to anyone in this thread? I'm not going to stoop to his level on this. 

[BottledDog]

That, is the point I take fromm BB's post. Hardly something to get hot under the collar about, or in the case of Chez and others to become hateful little cunts about.

 

You're ignoring the fact he says this season is a write-off already then?

 

Wish he'd told me like, I'd have saved £250.

 

I'd also like BD to explain how pointing out when someone is over £163m out in their estimation of what Ashley has spent and implying they hadnt even thought about what they posted makes me a 'hateful little cunt'.

 

Thats abusive imo. Can BD also point out where i was abusive to anyone in this thread? I'm not going to stoop to his level on this. 

 

And nor should you.

 

Thick, lacking in brains and fucking stupid cropped up in your attacks on peoples arguments. Abusive? I can't speak for those on the receiving end. Aggressively and unnecessarily over the top when there were pretty fair opinions being aired? Imho, yes. I reacted in a similar over the top way, and while I did change it almost immediately, no excuses, I have the unfortunate mouth of a sloshed navvy and apologise for that.