WhatTheFunk

she sneaks a peak or two the minx!

He used to be the darling of the media when he was younger, and always had their attention. Lately he's not talked about as much, yet it is NOW that the media should recognize his achievements and his dazzling career. I just don't feel he's mentioned in the same breath as the superstars Cantona, Shearer, Zola, Bergkamp, Keane etc..

Was watching the lad play today. He must be the most underrated player in the history of the premiership. Has had a long and brilliant career, won everything there is to win, and played some wonderful stuff too. Good old fashioned professional, and a credit to him for leading by example. Quite simply fantastic at reading the game, and a highly intelligent footballer. No wonder Fergsuon has held on to him for so long.

Was tried against Coventry and he sucked. That's far too responsive. Keep doing it for 6 more games, THEN realise it's not working, then do something about it. [/vaguejibe] THANK YOU!!! A FUCKING VOICE OF REASON!!!

the original ronaldo?

To me, having a footballing brain is just being someone who understands the game of football. to TRULY understand the game. Beardsley is a perfect example because he could pass, he could tackle, he could score and he could lead and have a psychological impact on a game.

He will manage Newcastle United to glory one day

twats!! there's me thinking the board imploded due to Mick and NE5 agreeing on something!!

That's crazy, the word generate means to produce, that covers every penny which comes into the club. He is willing to put £10-15m of his own money in every year, but the rest of the money, for transfers and so on, has to be generated by the club’s own business activity For. No From. FFS can’t you read? Money from Mike goes into bank account A. Money for transfers comes out of bank account B. And never the twain shall meet? f***ing hell :lol: have you noticed his initials?

No, I don't think he was actually. He played for some Uruguayan club who then lent him to Monaco if I recall correctly. After his loan term Valencia got him on a long term contract. Aye you're right, I just checked and can't find anything about him being co-owned. God knows where I got that from then. I'm with everyone else then.. what are Valencia playing about at? Ey? Ey?

Happy birthday King Kev I may be bitter, but no doubting the love I have for the man regardless.

Nobody's moaning about owt! Being concerned about Joe's health and well-being, and hearing some news about the op is totally different to demanding answers about Keegan or transfer funds ffs!

predictable as fuck but made me laugh no end

The silence is worrying My thoughts as well But then again they say No news is Good news

Jokes apart, have we any idea how the op went??

You're SO my kinda woman I'm no-man's type of woman, it takes a man with balls of steel to put up with me, What a coincidence! Had mine plated in Pittsburgh last summer! Wanna see?

interesting

You're SO my kinda woman

They won't show the ambition to go forward again. Didn't I say ages ago too - long before Keegan triggered all this and opened some eyes ? You're not doing a u-turn are you ? 2 years into his "plan", and it still isn't obvious ? this your new catchphrase now then? every time I have this hope that, despite you sticking to your guns in terms of what you believe, that you are able to have some sort of constructive discussion with people who disagree with you. every time you have gone and proved that it isn't possible. fucking pathetic.

nowt to say then ? Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton. on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him. When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ? It's a lottery getting a good manager? No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill. is it now ? We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson. Or Everton replace Moyes .......... Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory. Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual. you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp. were you happy with the kinnear appointment ? hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ? (conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works) i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ? often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in. silly. Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back. Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved. Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ? BORING ! we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007. defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ? i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences. nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left. you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment. Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result. As I've said before. Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process. The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that] Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending? nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid. I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro. You really are one blinkered old man aren't you. Who said I didn't appreciate the wonderful football we have experienced, but you paint the Hall/Shepherd days with such rose-tinted spectacles. You fail to see what it has cost this club to get these things. You know I wouldn't prefer to be in the 2nd division, but a happy medium of the club not being whored out to pay for the fabulous football we saw would have been nice, do you not think? As for the £100-£200 million quid. Are you happy that Sir John Hall and Fred Shepherd pocketed over £180 million between them when this club was sold, especially since Sir John Hall stood on the steps of St James when he first bought the club and stated he wasn't in it for the money! YEAH RIGHT! oh dear. Resorting to insults. How old are you ? I'm not old you daft bugger, and I'm in good health too. If you don't want to listen to others who have seen things [without meaning to sound patronising] then you really do have a serious problem, and are talking like a naive teenager. I don't believe you saw the mediocrity of the 1970's and 1980's if you think the souness, Roeder and Allardyce league positions were mediocre league positions. Sorry like, but I don't. I believed you at first but your own comments have gave me the impression I now have. I have no idea what makes you think I am happy with money going out of the club. All I have said is that the Halls and Shepherd are by far the best owners we have had in 50 years, in fact, the ONLY good owners in that time. To that extent, they deserved something, for the job they did and the initial risks they took, taking over the club in the state it was in. And don't compare the state of the club in 1991 to now, because believe me, it was miles apart. but we're in the same league position now as we were when shepherd left, so its not the league positions you care about? but how much money we spend? seems weird. I don't ever remember us being in such a relegation scrap under Shepherd's tenure though. point taken, but remember we're always only one or two results away from being out of it (just as much as the opposite is true i understand). but to criticise ashley on current league position while stating that the souness roeder allardyce finishes were not mediocre is hypocritical, whereas to criticise ashley on financial grounds is at best naive and at worst a blatant agenda. I really don't know how many times this has to be said. A board that backs their manager and shows ambition will always be better than one who choose not to. i agree, however i feel thats over simplifying the issue somewhat, dont you? in light of the clubs current financial status? You mean seeing 2 of our best players, one of whom has been a fabric of the club and couldn't wait to get away, and our captain to follow soon, is over-simplifying ? I don't think so. In fact, its frightening. no thats not what i mean because thats not what i said. i dont really think thats relevant to backing the manager? as it opens a whole load of other issues regarding whether jfk wanted given and n'zogbia to stay, what the club did to keep them etc, so lets not side track. i agree with you that boards should back their managers financially, but given the clubs finances at present, how should the board be providing more than they currently are? I'm not sure either, but maybe Shay Given could shed some light on it ? As well as Keegan and Owen ? Don't you find their actions tell you something ? i reckon they'd tell you they left cos the club aint going to be challenging anytime soon (and i would say it it was down to the financial mess we are in) you would say we should have kept on borrowing to keep these players ,cross your fingers and hope we find success before the banks say "no" or "err can we have our money back please" I understand what you and the others are saying. You wish we hadnt' played in the Champions League rather than aim for a relegation and solvency, and you think every club except us is successful, always appoint the right man, and make profits at the same time oh we know that trick,the one where you try to make out someone said something they didn't. what i am saying (and you well know it) is that after dropping out the champs league you can gamble a bit to get back in,but if you fail and you keep on gambling and failing.....you end up like all other gamblers who fail. still awaiting your answer by the way of where the money would come from year on year when making losses year on year and do you understand that you can't keep borrowing for ever. Simple difference is, I don't believe Ashley has a clue about football, or how to succeed, nor the desire to do what it takes even if this belief is incorrect. Whereas I have no doubt whatsoever that the Halls and Shepherd would have re-grouped and had another go, and probably had some success too. It boils down to the same thing I've said from day 1, you know, what people don't understand and have been disputing all along, which is a board with desire for success, what it takes and backs their managers is better anyday than one who's only aim is saftely and afraid to the degree they won't back their managers. Any owner who takes this Ashley direction will NEVER match the Halls and Shepherd. Personally, I'm not looking for someone ready to match the Halls and Shepherd at all. I don't like Ashley. I think he's piece of s***. But I thank Llambias for his time answering questions to the Chronicle. However, they (Ashley & co) have to pretty f***ing lame if they think that running away from a problem (not communicating) is better than working around a solution (communicating). However, there are some things I like. That is Wise bringing in youngsters. Ever since I became a NUFC supporter, the lack of youngsters have really amazed me. So it's a good thing we bring in young players. Hopefully they will develop nicely. I also agree that debt and wage bill is far too high, and those numbers are not reflecting our league position or lack of euro. football... or cups for that matter. Other than that, I can't f***ing understand, can't f***ing believe, it is possible to run a football club the way newcastle United has been for years and years. I mean... what the f*** !?! thats quite a sensible post, but you let yourself down like others do with the last sentence. I mean, how can a club be badly run when it qualifies for europe more than any club bar 4 over a period of 15 years ? How many of the 87 clubs that didn't do as well as us do you think were "run better" ? How does the whole Leeds thing affect what you've just said? They were performing well on the pitch, qualifying for Europe, doing well in the league, but in order to do that they took huge gambles behind the scenes and despite their onfield success those gambles ended up failing and now look at them. Ridsdale risked the future survival of the club in an effort to achieve success in what was the present and they're now paying the price for that. In my view there are definite parallels between that and what's happened to us. Hopefully our situation will not end up being as extreme as theirs and Fred and the Halls had managed to do it for longer, but we are now paying the price for the good times and the club's approach did need to change. That would apply regardless of whether it was Ashley or Fred and the Halls running the club. Can I ask you a genuine question? Do you really think that we could have continued how we were going, building up debt, maintaining a huge wage bill and making consistent losses, or did things need to change? You can answer me in a PM if you want. I've already posted that I saw Allardyce's appointment at the time as a good one and with the other motive in him having shown himself to be able to build a fairly good club without spending loads of money, in order to level out for a few years. I've also said that after taht period I have no doubt that they would attempt to push forward with ambition again. I don't think Ashley will, in fact his complete lack or urgency and ignorance of our dire position as regards to a potential relegation says everything you ought to know about his ambition and intentions for the club. I think you've got the whole concept of ambition all wrong NE5. As you say, you expected the old board to level out for a few years, using SA's wheeling and dealing in the market, in order to re-gain a stable financial footing before spending again. Correct? That's ambition in itself, as it shows that they understood the dire financial situation we were in, and weren't about to drown the club into more debt that we couldn't afford. Now. How is that different to Ashley wanting to do the same now, as we find ourselves in a dire financial state? Imo it's just unfortunate for us and for Ashley that he took over the club at this particular time, and has had to reign in the spending before things got out of control. I don't think I have in the slightest. I expect a club like NUFC to act like a big club at all times, and I don't think Ashley has the ambition to succeed. As spence has just said, this club is in a position light years superior to the one the Halls and shepherd found it, whatever the younger lads think, its true. Certain other people , who have a personality agenda and spout bollocks accordingly, should really be ignored. It isn't as if they can say the league positions, crowds, stadium expansion or anything is something I've made up or anything NUFC can act like a big club when it's consistently finishing in the top 4, consistently qualifying for the CL, and at least add one or two trophies to its trophy cabinet in say a decade. Although we did achieve high league finishes, they were never consistent enough. And you cannot compare CL money with UEFA cup money as there is a world of a difference. As far as results and league finishes go, NUFC was inconsistent, and in comparison to Man U, Arsenal, and Liverpool, were seen to be punching above their weight. How many times did we finish outside the top 10 under the old board? you will never do this unless you act like a big club wanting to get in there. Ashley won't do that. Oh good lord jesus h. christ!!! You're not here to debate anything!!! What a waste of fucking time.

This is exactly my question to NE5, and he will not answer it except to say Ashley is a clueless knobjockey etcetera etcetera

nowt to say then ? Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton. on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him. When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ? It's a lottery getting a good manager? No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill. is it now ? We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson. Or Everton replace Moyes .......... Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory. Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual. you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp. were you happy with the kinnear appointment ? hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ? (conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works) i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ? often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in. silly. Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back. Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved. Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ? BORING ! we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007. defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ? i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences. nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left. you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment. Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result. As I've said before. Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process. The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that] Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending? nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid. I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro. You really are one blinkered old man aren't you. Who said I didn't appreciate the wonderful football we have experienced, but you paint the Hall/Shepherd days with such rose-tinted spectacles. You fail to see what it has cost this club to get these things. You know I wouldn't prefer to be in the 2nd division, but a happy medium of the club not being whored out to pay for the fabulous football we saw would have been nice, do you not think? As for the £100-£200 million quid. Are you happy that Sir John Hall and Fred Shepherd pocketed over £180 million between them when this club was sold, especially since Sir John Hall stood on the steps of St James when he first bought the club and stated he wasn't in it for the money! YEAH RIGHT! oh dear. Resorting to insults. How old are you ? I'm not old you daft bugger, and I'm in good health too. If you don't want to listen to others who have seen things [without meaning to sound patronising] then you really do have a serious problem, and are talking like a naive teenager. I don't believe you saw the mediocrity of the 1970's and 1980's if you think the souness, Roeder and Allardyce league positions were mediocre league positions. Sorry like, but I don't. I believed you at first but your own comments have gave me the impression I now have. I have no idea what makes you think I am happy with money going out of the club. All I have said is that the Halls and Shepherd are by far the best owners we have had in 50 years, in fact, the ONLY good owners in that time. To that extent, they deserved something, for the job they did and the initial risks they took, taking over the club in the state it was in. And don't compare the state of the club in 1991 to now, because believe me, it was miles apart. but we're in the same league position now as we were when shepherd left, so its not the league positions you care about? but how much money we spend? seems weird. I don't ever remember us being in such a relegation scrap under Shepherd's tenure though. point taken, but remember we're always only one or two results away from being out of it (just as much as the opposite is true i understand). but to criticise ashley on current league position while stating that the souness roeder allardyce finishes were not mediocre is hypocritical, whereas to criticise ashley on financial grounds is at best naive and at worst a blatant agenda. I really don't know how many times this has to be said. A board that backs their manager and shows ambition will always be better than one who choose not to. i agree, however i feel thats over simplifying the issue somewhat, dont you? in light of the clubs current financial status? You mean seeing 2 of our best players, one of whom has been a fabric of the club and couldn't wait to get away, and our captain to follow soon, is over-simplifying ? I don't think so. In fact, its frightening. no thats not what i mean because thats not what i said. i dont really think thats relevant to backing the manager? as it opens a whole load of other issues regarding whether jfk wanted given and n'zogbia to stay, what the club did to keep them etc, so lets not side track. i agree with you that boards should back their managers financially, but given the clubs finances at present, how should the board be providing more than they currently are? I'm not sure either, but maybe Shay Given could shed some light on it ? As well as Keegan and Owen ? Don't you find their actions tell you something ? i reckon they'd tell you they left cos the club aint going to be challenging anytime soon (and i would say it it was down to the financial mess we are in) you would say we should have kept on borrowing to keep these players ,cross your fingers and hope we find success before the banks say "no" or "err can we have our money back please" I understand what you and the others are saying. You wish we hadnt' played in the Champions League rather than aim for a relegation and solvency, and you think every club except us is successful, always appoint the right man, and make profits at the same time oh we know that trick,the one where you try to make out someone said something they didn't. what i am saying (and you well know it) is that after dropping out the champs league you can gamble a bit to get back in,but if you fail and you keep on gambling and failing.....you end up like all other gamblers who fail. still awaiting your answer by the way of where the money would come from year on year when making losses year on year and do you understand that you can't keep borrowing for ever. Simple difference is, I don't believe Ashley has a clue about football, or how to succeed, nor the desire to do what it takes even if this belief is incorrect. Whereas I have no doubt whatsoever that the Halls and Shepherd would have re-grouped and had another go, and probably had some success too. It boils down to the same thing I've said from day 1, you know, what people don't understand and have been disputing all along, which is a board with desire for success, what it takes and backs their managers is better anyday than one who's only aim is saftely and afraid to the degree they won't back their managers. Any owner who takes this Ashley direction will NEVER match the Halls and Shepherd. Personally, I'm not looking for someone ready to match the Halls and Shepherd at all. I don't like Ashley. I think he's piece of s***. But I thank Llambias for his time answering questions to the Chronicle. However, they (Ashley & co) have to pretty f***ing lame if they think that running away from a problem (not communicating) is better than working around a solution (communicating). However, there are some things I like. That is Wise bringing in youngsters. Ever since I became a NUFC supporter, the lack of youngsters have really amazed me. So it's a good thing we bring in young players. Hopefully they will develop nicely. I also agree that debt and wage bill is far too high, and those numbers are not reflecting our league position or lack of euro. football... or cups for that matter. Other than that, I can't f***ing understand, can't f***ing believe, it is possible to run a football club the way newcastle United has been for years and years. I mean... what the f*** !?! thats quite a sensible post, but you let yourself down like others do with the last sentence. I mean, how can a club be badly run when it qualifies for europe more than any club bar 4 over a period of 15 years ? How many of the 87 clubs that didn't do as well as us do you think were "run better" ? How does the whole Leeds thing affect what you've just said? They were performing well on the pitch, qualifying for Europe, doing well in the league, but in order to do that they took huge gambles behind the scenes and despite their onfield success those gambles ended up failing and now look at them. Ridsdale risked the future survival of the club in an effort to achieve success in what was the present and they're now paying the price for that. In my view there are definite parallels between that and what's happened to us. Hopefully our situation will not end up being as extreme as theirs and Fred and the Halls had managed to do it for longer, but we are now paying the price for the good times and the club's approach did need to change. That would apply regardless of whether it was Ashley or Fred and the Halls running the club. Can I ask you a genuine question? Do you really think that we could have continued how we were going, building up debt, maintaining a huge wage bill and making consistent losses, or did things need to change? You can answer me in a PM if you want. I've already posted that I saw Allardyce's appointment at the time as a good one and with the other motive in him having shown himself to be able to build a fairly good club without spending loads of money, in order to level out for a few years. I've also said that after taht period I have no doubt that they would attempt to push forward with ambition again. I don't think Ashley will, in fact his complete lack or urgency and ignorance of our dire position as regards to a potential relegation says everything you ought to know about his ambition and intentions for the club. I think you've got the whole concept of ambition all wrong NE5. As you say, you expected the old board to level out for a few years, using SA's wheeling and dealing in the market, in order to re-gain a stable financial footing before spending again. Correct? That's ambition in itself, as it shows that they understood the dire financial situation we were in, and weren't about to drown the club into more debt that we couldn't afford. Now. How is that different to Ashley wanting to do the same now, as we find ourselves in a dire financial state? Imo it's just unfortunate for us and for Ashley that he took over the club at this particular time, and has had to reign in the spending before things got out of control. I don't think I have in the slightest. I expect a club like NUFC to act like a big club at all times, and I don't think Ashley has the ambition to succeed. As spence has just said, this club is in a position light years superior to the one the Halls and shepherd found it, whatever the younger lads think, its true. Certain other people , who have a personality agenda and spout bollocks accordingly, should really be ignored. It isn't as if they can say the league positions, crowds, stadium expansion or anything is something I've made up or anything NUFC can act like a big club when it's consistently finishing in the top 4, consistently qualifying for the CL, and at least add one or two trophies to its trophy cabinet in say a decade. Although we did achieve high league finishes, they were never consistent enough. And you cannot compare CL money with UEFA cup money as there is a world of a difference. As far as results and league finishes go, NUFC was inconsistent, and in comparison to Man U, Arsenal, and Liverpool, were seen to be punching above their weight. How many times did we finish outside the top 10 under the old board?

nowt to say then ? Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton. on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him. When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ? It's a lottery getting a good manager? No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill. is it now ? We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson. Or Everton replace Moyes .......... Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory. Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual. you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp. were you happy with the kinnear appointment ? hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ? (conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works) i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ? often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in. silly. Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back. Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved. Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ? BORING ! we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007. defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ? i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences. nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left. you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment. Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result. As I've said before. Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process. The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that] Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending? nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid. I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro. You really are one blinkered old man aren't you. Who said I didn't appreciate the wonderful football we have experienced, but you paint the Hall/Shepherd days with such rose-tinted spectacles. You fail to see what it has cost this club to get these things. You know I wouldn't prefer to be in the 2nd division, but a happy medium of the club not being whored out to pay for the fabulous football we saw would have been nice, do you not think? As for the £100-£200 million quid. Are you happy that Sir John Hall and Fred Shepherd pocketed over £180 million between them when this club was sold, especially since Sir John Hall stood on the steps of St James when he first bought the club and stated he wasn't in it for the money! YEAH RIGHT! oh dear. Resorting to insults. How old are you ? I'm not old you daft bugger, and I'm in good health too. If you don't want to listen to others who have seen things [without meaning to sound patronising] then you really do have a serious problem, and are talking like a naive teenager. I don't believe you saw the mediocrity of the 1970's and 1980's if you think the souness, Roeder and Allardyce league positions were mediocre league positions. Sorry like, but I don't. I believed you at first but your own comments have gave me the impression I now have. I have no idea what makes you think I am happy with money going out of the club. All I have said is that the Halls and Shepherd are by far the best owners we have had in 50 years, in fact, the ONLY good owners in that time. To that extent, they deserved something, for the job they did and the initial risks they took, taking over the club in the state it was in. And don't compare the state of the club in 1991 to now, because believe me, it was miles apart. but we're in the same league position now as we were when shepherd left, so its not the league positions you care about? but how much money we spend? seems weird. I don't ever remember us being in such a relegation scrap under Shepherd's tenure though. point taken, but remember we're always only one or two results away from being out of it (just as much as the opposite is true i understand). but to criticise ashley on current league position while stating that the souness roeder allardyce finishes were not mediocre is hypocritical, whereas to criticise ashley on financial grounds is at best naive and at worst a blatant agenda. I really don't know how many times this has to be said. A board that backs their manager and shows ambition will always be better than one who choose not to. i agree, however i feel thats over simplifying the issue somewhat, dont you? in light of the clubs current financial status? You mean seeing 2 of our best players, one of whom has been a fabric of the club and couldn't wait to get away, and our captain to follow soon, is over-simplifying ? I don't think so. In fact, its frightening. no thats not what i mean because thats not what i said. i dont really think thats relevant to backing the manager? as it opens a whole load of other issues regarding whether jfk wanted given and n'zogbia to stay, what the club did to keep them etc, so lets not side track. i agree with you that boards should back their managers financially, but given the clubs finances at present, how should the board be providing more than they currently are? I'm not sure either, but maybe Shay Given could shed some light on it ? As well as Keegan and Owen ? Don't you find their actions tell you something ? i reckon they'd tell you they left cos the club aint going to be challenging anytime soon (and i would say it it was down to the financial mess we are in) you would say we should have kept on borrowing to keep these players ,cross your fingers and hope we find success before the banks say "no" or "err can we have our money back please" I understand what you and the others are saying. You wish we hadnt' played in the Champions League rather than aim for a relegation and solvency, and you think every club except us is successful, always appoint the right man, and make profits at the same time oh we know that trick,the one where you try to make out someone said something they didn't. what i am saying (and you well know it) is that after dropping out the champs league you can gamble a bit to get back in,but if you fail and you keep on gambling and failing.....you end up like all other gamblers who fail. still awaiting your answer by the way of where the money would come from year on year when making losses year on year and do you understand that you can't keep borrowing for ever. Simple difference is, I don't believe Ashley has a clue about football, or how to succeed, nor the desire to do what it takes even if this belief is incorrect. Whereas I have no doubt whatsoever that the Halls and Shepherd would have re-grouped and had another go, and probably had some success too. It boils down to the same thing I've said from day 1, you know, what people don't understand and have been disputing all along, which is a board with desire for success, what it takes and backs their managers is better anyday than one who's only aim is saftely and afraid to the degree they won't back their managers. Any owner who takes this Ashley direction will NEVER match the Halls and Shepherd. Personally, I'm not looking for someone ready to match the Halls and Shepherd at all. I don't like Ashley. I think he's piece of s***. But I thank Llambias for his time answering questions to the Chronicle. However, they (Ashley & co) have to pretty f***ing lame if they think that running away from a problem (not communicating) is better than working around a solution (communicating). However, there are some things I like. That is Wise bringing in youngsters. Ever since I became a NUFC supporter, the lack of youngsters have really amazed me. So it's a good thing we bring in young players. Hopefully they will develop nicely. I also agree that debt and wage bill is far too high, and those numbers are not reflecting our league position or lack of euro. football... or cups for that matter. Other than that, I can't f***ing understand, can't f***ing believe, it is possible to run a football club the way newcastle United has been for years and years. I mean... what the f*** !?! thats quite a sensible post, but you let yourself down like others do with the last sentence. I mean, how can a club be badly run when it qualifies for europe more than any club bar 4 over a period of 15 years ? How many of the 87 clubs that didn't do as well as us do you think were "run better" ? How does the whole Leeds thing affect what you've just said? They were performing well on the pitch, qualifying for Europe, doing well in the league, but in order to do that they took huge gambles behind the scenes and despite their onfield success those gambles ended up failing and now look at them. Ridsdale risked the future survival of the club in an effort to achieve success in what was the present and they're now paying the price for that. In my view there are definite parallels between that and what's happened to us. Hopefully our situation will not end up being as extreme as theirs and Fred and the Halls had managed to do it for longer, but we are now paying the price for the good times and the club's approach did need to change. That would apply regardless of whether it was Ashley or Fred and the Halls running the club. Can I ask you a genuine question? Do you really think that we could have continued how we were going, building up debt, maintaining a huge wage bill and making consistent losses, or did things need to change? You can answer me in a PM if you want. I've already posted that I saw Allardyce's appointment at the time as a good one and with the other motive in him having shown himself to be able to build a fairly good club without spending loads of money, in order to level out for a few years. I've also said that after taht period I have no doubt that they would attempt to push forward with ambition again. I don't think Ashley will, in fact his complete lack or urgency and ignorance of our dire position as regards to a potential relegation says everything you ought to know about his ambition and intentions for the club. I think you've got the whole concept of ambition all wrong NE5. As you say, you expected the old board to level out for a few years, using SA's wheeling and dealing in the market, in order to re-gain a stable financial footing before spending again. Correct? That's ambition in itself, as it shows that they understood the dire financial situation we were in, and weren't about to drown the club into more debt that we couldn't afford. Now. How is that different to Ashley wanting to do the same now, as we find ourselves in a dire financial state? Imo it's just unfortunate for us and for Ashley that he took over the club at this particular time, and has had to reign in the spending before things got out of control.

It's not going to have an adverse effect on the team. Jesus wept, what the f*** is wrong with you lot? As the poster above you has said they're going to urge people to do exactly what you want and get behind the team, the only difference is NUSC may be capable of creating some form of atmosphere by bringing a few people together pre-match and getting them in the mood. We'll agree to disagree then. Irrespective of their motive, this is not the way it will be reflected in the media and will no doubt be jumped upon by the usual retards who turn up at St James' and get on Sky Sports News (no not David Craig). You must agree that there is a proportion of non-match going toon fans who are more likely to attend this rally and turn it to their own agenda? I'm talking about the boycoutt brigade. Is this not potentially providing a forum to turn what could by all means be an idea to 'rally' some support into an anti-regime event? Here underlies my entire point for avoiding these kind of events until the close season or safety-secured point. There is a mass amount of ill feeling around Tyneside, we all know that, and this could potentially provide a forum for it all to raise its head, and THAT would be extremely detrimental. The media coverage of NUSC so far has been overwhelmingly positive, as I pointed out earlier in the thread. I can't echo your worries about it being hijacked by charvas either as I don't think they're organised enough to turn it into an 'anti-regime event'. Obviously you'll get the odd scratter who is going to go way too far but the majority of Newcastle United fans are level headed blokes who wont suddenly flip the minute Ashley's name as mentioned. NUSC have every right to protest. It's being done well away from the ground and it wont have any negative effect on the performance of the players and I can't see why any right minded person would think otherwise. Using the logic of some on here then all fans should be barred from fraternising with each other pre-game if they're going to talk about the sorry state this club is in because that's clearly a breading ground for ill feeling that could reveal itself when Shola inevitably misplaces a pass. Do people off here go to the pub with their mates before a match, plaster on a s*** eating grin and talk about what a good job Kinnear, Llambias and Ashley are doing and how we're only a few good results away from Europe for fear that a negative comment is going to lose us a game? dear me When fans get together for a pre-match pint, it isn't exactly plastered all over national and local news is it?