madras

thank f*** someone else sees it i also agree with madras that he doesn't get his head up enough but i think on both sides (his and the other players) they've sort of both got into the rut of him having to do it all on his own or something - there could also be the element of pardew's risk analysis, i.e. he might be telling players to stand their ground was HBA has the ball because he's brilliant but more of a risk and turns over possession more often, not sure go back and watch the compilations of him playing in france and look how many times he's on the ball picking lush passes for players making runs in behind the defence, it's been conditioned out of him after 2 years of playing in a real life fussball team...needs conditioning back into them all through proper training again I disagree, for all he is a fantastic talent he seems to lack some football intelligence, how many times have you screamed at him for hitting the right touch line and trying to keep it in instead of just cutting it back ? or for trying to go when a simple pass back to retain possession was on, re watch the sunderland game and watch how many times he gets the ball and instead of keeping it moving takes the time to get crowded out, he brings it on himself many times. he's got to mix it up, it makes it much easier for the opposition if they know he's going to run at them at every opportunity.

would we remember the new years day mackems games so well if Boney M had never existed ?

chopra never really had a chance here.

the ipswich teams of the late 70's early 80's of wark,gates,mariner, osman,beattie,cooper, mills,osbourne,whymark had an ugliness that turned milk in wooler as they hit yorkshire on their way up north.

acuna and a pair of robledo's, thats all you need to know. (yes i know the robledos didn't play in the prem but chileans playing for other teams are much less interesting)

danny simpson looked good in benfica. True like I said its hard to make any judgement considering the games he's played. its what I was driving at in an oblique way.

danny simpson looked good in benfica.

by boards of canada.

incognito and mick

it's the same excuse whenever he plays poorly "oh it wasn't him, it was the others", you watch him that close, watch how often he gets his head up after he gets the ball, watch how often he lays off a simple ball then turns to get into space or stretch the opposition (a clue- he doesn't). when nhe'son fire he's fantastic, one of the few players worth paying to watch on his own, when he's not though, it seems the team is better off without him. anyone thought, given there is a lot by pardew about ben arfas personality and I think a little by the player himself, that when he's down it may not be best to play him ?

he could buy rangers for very little comparitively and be in the champs league within a couple of years and all the riches that brings. don't know if even with projected TV money rising down here if he'd make a profit on selling us. fairly sure he'd get out if he could break even on us though.

can't say he was awful against Liverpool like, got caught out appealing for offside (which many more experienced defenders do similar) but on the whole was very steady. what he had to do he done poorly against sunderland mind.

fletcher and altidore ?

You'd never know tbf... the old cliche "it's a game of opinions" regularly happens even among those I sit with when one can see a player as having been MotM while another screaming for him to be subbed.

Are you trying to say that we don't have a lack of movement from our players when Ben Arfa has the ball. for a long time we had a lack of movement whoever had the ball, it was only used as an excuse for ben arfa though, this season we've had much more movement, however i've noticed ben arfa still getting the benefit when he's had options but held on too it for too long, fwiw ben arfa is as bad if not worse than most for his movement off the ball. it was and is a team thing, not just when he gets the ball, thats a crap excuse to defend a favourite when he just isn't doing it.

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. there was like, personally I'd have brought colo on and tried to push the full backs on 10yds or so especially as they caught santon loads with the ball played inside him. really can't see any reason FOR bringing ben arfa on last weekend. When you have a team pushing forwards and leaving lots of space to exploit behind, I would think a player like ben Arfa would certainly be worth considering as part of the mix. they didn't really leave a load of space for a ben arfa type player to exploit, that would call for movement and someone to work along the line or at least someone to work off the ball. not ben arfas strong points If a team is pressing forward for an equaliser there is always space behind to exploit. Why would you need someone to work along the line to do that? You just put someone with some pace and ability to run at a stretched back four and an eye for goal. Get one of the other 11 to cover the lines. because if you just keep lobbing the ball over in the hope that that player will get to it first it will more often than not come straight back at you, far better try and play it for possession and in that scenario ben arfa isn't what you need. Why do you need to lob it in the first place? I can remember when we last finished in a CL place one of our best outlets was Solano who used to pick the ball up from deep defensive positions then thread the ball through to Dyer who broke forward at pace in loads of space to exploit against the opposition who were pressing forward. dyers (and solanos) movement was far superior to ben arfas, more of it and much more intelligent. ball at their feet, good as they were ben afa would murder them but doing the basics to get the ball in that situation I just don't think he'd be good enough at it. oh aye, and usually that was when we were chasing the game rather than the oppo chasing the game. at that time I was quite happy going in to the last 15 level or trailing by one as we had the legs to do anyone, as a team we don't now. The reason I mentioned Solano is because without someone who could keep his head and play the ball out from defensive positions, Dyer would have looked pretty much a passenger as well. That's where the problem lies, we don't do that strategically, because as has been mentioned by mrmojorisin, we aren't coached that way. Our set up is still most effective when we hit the ball long from the back, and in that scenario HBA isn't going to look good, and you can understand why Pardew prefers Obertan. i fear you are massively over simplifying things, we had a team who were comfortable on the ball and had numerous "get outs", as much as I like cabaye,anita and tiote has recovered some form, neither are what you'd call an escape ball which means the escapee has to do more than what ben arfa gives off the ball. also as I've said dyer gave himself better options to be passed to because of his pace and movement, ben arfa doesn't come alive UNTIL he has the ball which is too late in this situation. got to totally disagree with the idea that we are most effective when hitting long balls from the back, we've been at our best this season when dominating games and then being organised when out of possession. HBA has got his faults which I've brought up myself, namely holds the ball too long and doesn't track back very enthusiastically, but I wouldn't put lack of movement off the ball down as a weakness. He's one of the few who regularly shows for the ball, the problem is he doesn't give it back once he's got it. But on the break against a team pressing up the pitch I haven't noticed him being any less keen to get behind the defence than Obertan. I'm sure he'd far prefer to run at tiring defences when the games opened up than go up against two defenders as is usually the case when he starts. I don't think Ben Arfa holding onto the ball too long can entirely be blamed on him, if anything its the lack off movement off the ball from other players which often prevents him from releasing it. Put him back on the right and give him Remy or Gouffran to feed into in the centre and I think you'd see a different game from him. That is presuming he isn't told to keep the ball and show us a bit of "magic" strangely the movement has been there when he's been out, especially movement just to keep possession, to the point that i'm seeing the"nobody moves for him" argument to be little more than an excuse for him, also, showing for the ball is vastly different to good movement.

definite 8 for me.

they aren't but they do seem to be improving.

through the middle or swap with remy or gouffran. personally keep it as is, it could also allow gouffran more scope to get in the box.

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. there was like, personally I'd have brought colo on and tried to push the full backs on 10yds or so especially as they caught santon loads with the ball played inside him. really can't see any reason FOR bringing ben arfa on last weekend. When you have a team pushing forwards and leaving lots of space to exploit behind, I would think a player like ben Arfa would certainly be worth considering as part of the mix. they didn't really leave a load of space for a ben arfa type player to exploit, that would call for movement and someone to work along the line or at least someone to work off the ball. not ben arfas strong points If a team is pressing forward for an equaliser there is always space behind to exploit. Why would you need someone to work along the line to do that? You just put someone with some pace and ability to run at a stretched back four and an eye for goal. Get one of the other 11 to cover the lines. because if you just keep lobbing the ball over in the hope that that player will get to it first it will more often than not come straight back at you, far better try and play it for possession and in that scenario ben arfa isn't what you need. Why do you need to lob it in the first place? I can remember when we last finished in a CL place one of our best outlets was Solano who used to pick the ball up from deep defensive positions then thread the ball through to Dyer who broke forward at pace in loads of space to exploit against the opposition who were pressing forward. dyers (and solanos) movement was far superior to ben arfas, more of it and much more intelligent. ball at their feet, good as they were ben afa would murder them but doing the basics to get the ball in that situation I just don't think he'd be good enough at it. oh aye, and usually that was when we were chasing the game rather than the oppo chasing the game. at that time I was quite happy going in to the last 15 level or trailing by one as we had the legs to do anyone, as a team we don't now. The reason I mentioned Solano is because without someone who could keep his head and play the ball out from defensive positions, Dyer would have looked pretty much a passenger as well. That's where the problem lies, we don't do that strategically, because as has been mentioned by mrmojorisin, we aren't coached that way. Our set up is still most effective when we hit the ball long from the back, and in that scenario HBA isn't going to look good, and you can understand why Pardew prefers Obertan. i fear you are massively over simplifying things, we had a team who were comfortable on the ball and had numerous "get outs", as much as I like cabaye,anita and tiote has recovered some form, neither are what you'd call an escape ball which means the escapee has to do more than what ben arfa gives off the ball. also as I've said dyer gave himself better options to be passed to because of his pace and movement, ben arfa doesn't come alive UNTIL he has the ball which is too late in this situation. got to totally disagree with the idea that we are most effective when hitting long balls from the back, we've been at our best this season when dominating games and then being organised when out of possession.

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. there was like, personally I'd have brought colo on and tried to push the full backs on 10yds or so especially as they caught santon loads with the ball played inside him. really can't see any reason FOR bringing ben arfa on last weekend. When you have a team pushing forwards and leaving lots of space to exploit behind, I would think a player like ben Arfa would certainly be worth considering as part of the mix. they didn't really leave a load of space for a ben arfa type player to exploit, that would call for movement and someone to work along the line or at least someone to work off the ball. not ben arfas strong points If a team is pressing forward for an equaliser there is always space behind to exploit. Why would you need someone to work along the line to do that? You just put someone with some pace and ability to run at a stretched back four and an eye for goal. Get one of the other 11 to cover the lines. because if you just keep lobbing the ball over in the hope that that player will get to it first it will more often than not come straight back at you, far better try and play it for possession and in that scenario ben arfa isn't what you need. Why do you need to lob it in the first place? I can remember when we last finished in a CL place one of our best outlets was Solano who used to pick the ball up from deep defensive positions then thread the ball through to Dyer who broke forward at pace in loads of space to exploit against the opposition who were pressing forward. dyers (and solanos) movement was far superior to ben arfas, more of it and much more intelligent. ball at their feet, good as they were ben afa would murder them but doing the basics to get the ball in that situation I just don't think he'd be good enough at it. oh aye, and usually that was when we were chasing the game rather than the oppo chasing the game. at that time I was quite happy going in to the last 15 level or trailing by one as we had the legs to do anyone, as a team we don't now.

given the coincedence between jonas's undisclosed personal problems and similar with colo's wife, I can only assume that colo and jonas are indeed married.

any idea why "darlington" ?

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. there was like, personally I'd have brought colo on and tried to push the full backs on 10yds or so especially as they caught santon loads with the ball played inside him. really can't see any reason FOR bringing ben arfa on last weekend. When you have a team pushing forwards and leaving lots of space to exploit behind, I would think a player like ben Arfa would certainly be worth considering as part of the mix. they didn't really leave a load of space for a ben arfa type player to exploit, that would call for movement and someone to work along the line or at least someone to work off the ball. not ben arfas strong points If a team is pressing forward for an equaliser there is always space behind to exploit. Why would you need someone to work along the line to do that? You just put someone with some pace and ability to run at a stretched back four and an eye for goal. Get one of the other 11 to cover the lines. because if you just keep lobbing the ball over in the hope that that player will get to it first it will more often than not come straight back at you, far better try and play it for possession and in that scenario ben arfa isn't what you need.

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. there was like, personally I'd have brought colo on and tried to push the full backs on 10yds or so especially as they caught santon loads with the ball played inside him. really can't see any reason FOR bringing ben arfa on last weekend. When you have a team pushing forwards and leaving lots of space to exploit behind, I would think a player like ben Arfa would certainly be worth considering as part of the mix. they didn't really leave a load of space for a ben arfa type player to exploit, that would call for movement and someone to work along the line or at least someone to work off the ball. not ben arfas strong points