thomas

Take it you've never had heart problems, high blood pressure etc or known anyone close to you to have that sort of problem. Lucky bastard, if so. You can't ignore Joe's medical history either. I really do hope that the club seriously consider whether it's right to let him carry on as manager. He looks like he's about to burst a blood vessel sitting on the bench sometimes. Make him tough it out till the end of the season for whatever stability that might provide, amicably part ways due to concerns over health with someone class lined up already. Win - Win. Sorted.

Suffering is validation.

Oh, look at that, we didn't fall behind all game and no twat came along to bump this thread. edit: still a 2.

I can go vomit now. Jesus christ

Probably have to go back 3 years for the last time that was said

Jesus only 39 minutes gone. It's been so long I'd forgotten how time seems to crawl when we have a lead.

You really couldn't choreograph a routine as ridiculous as our defending.

God I cannot FUCKING STAND Nicky Butt.

ok please let that be all the jitters out of us. calm the fuck down, ping it around not like we're entire spastics and see this out.

Nothing compares to the moon pie with an afro that is Pat Dolan spouting complete nonsense.

I... er said ... you ... what? I've never come close to saying that but frankly I don't want to hear what misuse of logic you've used to arrive at the conclusion I had. Neither do you since you didn't address my main points of confidence and relevance. Instead You've chosen to rattle off some platitudes and wave your hands about and make noises over what an owner should or shouldn't do but you absolutely continue to refuse to confront the reality that Shepherd wasn't going to get things back on track. You've changed track and changed your tune and tried to lead the conversation down another route because you know you're wrong but you can't bear to admit it. I'm wrong for saying that Ashley hasn't and never will match the european qualifications of his predecessors ? I don't think so. Very well. You don't have confidence in Ashley. By 2005 I'd lost confidence in Shepherd. Can't say either opinion is that controversial.

I... er said ... you ... what? I've never come close to saying that but frankly I don't want to hear what misuse of logic you've used to arrive at the conclusion I had. Neither do you since you didn't address my main points of confidence and relevance. Instead You've chosen to rattle off some platitudes and wave your hands about and make noises over what an owner should or shouldn't do but you absolutely continue to refuse to confront the reality that Shepherd wasn't going to get things back on track. You've changed track and changed your tune and tried to lead the conversation down another route because you know you're wrong but you can't bear to admit it.

the quote is : "any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board" - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006 So, the obvious answer is that they haven't ? Which, using mandiarse's remarkable gift of hindsight, would appear to be the case, wouldn't you agree ? Unless of course, he is still happy that the new regime is moving the club towards matching the european qualifications, capacity gates and therefore the long term revenue [at least] of the board he was slating, which is down to the appointment of Dennis Wise and other factors which come together as part of the running of the club ? Cheers. I'd been unaware that quote was now the one under discussion. But actually yes, I have a major problem with your interpretation. You've taken the last part of that sentence "... than the current board" and tried to apply it as a criticism of the entire tenure of the board. When that quote was posted, Late October 2006, we were just in the middle of a 9 game winless streak, Roeder'd been found out as having completely lucked up that 7th place finish and there was still a lot of dissatisfaction floating around about the board, spending and Souness. When Ozzie said that I think it's very, very clear he was talking about what they'd done recently and not what they'd done as a whole. You are quite wrong. There was a lot of support for what Souness was doing, with mandiarse one of his main supporters. I think his statement is very clear, as clear as is possible, meaning that he thought pretty much anybody would come in and do better. Then the disagreement is the length of time to which he was speaking. You interpret it as "Do better than they've done since 1992", the entire rest of the world interprets it as "Do better since the sacking of SBR." so the first 12 years of when they ran the club is being conveniently ignored here ? It's not about convenience, it's about relevance and confidence. Those 12 years prior would have come into consideration if someone was thinking "well, we're certainly not moving in the right direction anymore. But they've gotten us there before" ... that would be the relevant part ... the confidence part would be the natural followup to that sentence in " but do they look like getting us there again?" and the only sane, lucid answer one can provide would be "no". So in this context, those prior 12 weren't applicable. I fail to see how you're not grasping this very simple, very easy concept. When someone in any walk of life, who has prior to now produced excellent results, loses the plot badly, you HAVE to ask "do they look like turning it around". You HAVE to. Because it doesn't matter at that point how well they did in the past if they only look like they're dragging you down in the future. At some point, yes, you have to say "OK. What you did in the past was excellent but you can no longer move us forward." I, and many others on here, were of the opinion that no, Shepherd et al could NOT. I will remind you it was with Glenn Roeder at the helm, a man who's managed to get pretty much every other team he's managed relegated. Does that mean his 7th place finish was the aberration or are all those relegations the odd ones out? It was a fluke, as his prior and post history bears out. Call it St. Glenn's Miracle Season, call it a vindication for Freddy Shepherd, call it whatever you want. I and the majority of others will call it as it rightly is: a fluke. By the same token, if JFK reeled off 14 straight wins and secured 7th, a position that was achieved only 8 times in over 40 years prior to Ashley taking over, I would not hail it as a success of Ashley's system or of JFK as a coach. I think it was poorly planned, poorly executed and that Keegan, Llambias and Wise were all bad appointments. I think if MA wants to stick with a DOF/Academy/Manager-As-Coach idea it would be worth his time and money to go searching in continental Europe for such qualified individuals than within a country that has historically rejected such measures. I think such a setup could work in England but that it would take more time and definitely more investment than he's shown so far.

the quote is : "any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board" - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006 So, the obvious answer is that they haven't ? Which, using mandiarse's remarkable gift of hindsight, would appear to be the case, wouldn't you agree ? Unless of course, he is still happy that the new regime is moving the club towards matching the european qualifications, capacity gates and therefore the long term revenue [at least] of the board he was slating, which is down to the appointment of Dennis Wise and other factors which come together as part of the running of the club ? Cheers. I'd been unaware that quote was now the one under discussion. But actually yes, I have a major problem with your interpretation. You've taken the last part of that sentence "... than the current board" and tried to apply it as a criticism of the entire tenure of the board. When that quote was posted, Late October 2006, we were just in the middle of a 9 game winless streak, Roeder'd been found out as having completely lucked up that 7th place finish and there was still a lot of dissatisfaction floating around about the board, spending and Souness. When Ozzie said that I think it's very, very clear he was talking about what they'd done recently and not what they'd done as a whole. You are quite wrong. There was a lot of support for what Souness was doing, with mandiarse one of his main supporters. I think his statement is very clear, as clear as is possible, meaning that he thought pretty much anybody would come in and do better. Then the disagreement is the length of time to which he was speaking. You interpret it as "Do better than they've done since 1992", the entire rest of the world interprets it as "Do better since the sacking of SBR." edit: also he said "likely" never "certainly" so attributing an absolute statement to him is also incorrect.

the quote is : "any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board" - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006 So, the obvious answer is that they haven't ? Which, using mandiarse's remarkable gift of hindsight, would appear to be the case, wouldn't you agree ? Unless of course, he is still happy that the new regime is moving the club towards matching the european qualifications, capacity gates and therefore the long term revenue [at least] of the board he was slating, which is down to the appointment of Dennis Wise and other factors which come together as part of the running of the club ? Cheers. I'd been unaware that quote was now the one under discussion. But actually yes, I have a major problem with your interpretation. You've taken the last part of that sentence "... than the current board" and tried to apply it as a criticism of the entire tenure of the board. When that quote was posted, Late October 2006, we were just in the middle of a 9 game winless streak, Roeder'd been found out as having completely lucked up that 7th place finish and there was still a lot of dissatisfaction floating around about the board, spending and Souness. When Ozzie said that I think it's very, very clear he was talking about what they'd done recently and not what they'd done as a whole.

I'd really like a timeline of how Ozzies single quote, paraphrased as " so long as the new owners were chasing success I don't see what's wrong with a change at the top", has morphed into "I don't care who the new owners are. Anyone can do a better job than Shepherd." Oh wait, this was a thread about Wise. Was.

Lack of ambition -- although this is also down to the fans as well. If the fans are happy with league 2 mid table mediocrity then this isn't a negative, it's just the realization of as far as their ambition goes.

:smitten: ME + MA BFF 4EVA. :smitten:

"STOP RUNNING, WE JUST WANT TO THANK YOU!"

Money is a red herring tbh. He earned every bit of it while he was here with his performances through thick and thin, using it now as a stick to beat him with for not being loyal enough is just wrong.

Could a man BE more in love with the word 'whilst' ?

THANK FUCK

Nobody forced Ashley to do anything he didnt want to do If the protester knew that Ashley wouldnt listen to them then whats the point of the NUSC and whats the point of protesting? If the sun is going to burn out then what's the point in this planet? Maybe there is no point, or purpose. All matter will decay and the universe will die a heat death. Everything and everyone we love, everything we think that matters will be gone and there will be no trace of it and no one to know of it even if there was. And for all a bleak eternity there will just be still silence.

good grief.

There's a lot of important questions but probably few he could answer and even fewer being asked in a non-loaded manner, e.g. "Why do you think it's a good idea to murder orphans?"