Mr Logic

Not to be too cynical about this but we are their customers now and it stands to reason they will want to create as large a 'feel-good' factor as possible. Make friends with the natives and have them tell all their friends about us too. Which, of course, is as cynical a view as it gets. Hopefully a lot of good will come of it and, at the end of the day, if success comes on the pitch everyone will have got what they wanted. Ashley will have a more valuable business producing greater amounts of money and the fans will be delirious with silver-ware.

me and Chez- Chez and I. Jammy git.

Well you have to know I could do that. Internet is a wonderful place for research. Unfortunatley I'm not sure where your desk is and at 1,000 words I might have to pad it a bit. -- Did the club ever try a Fans Liaison Officer, or some such title? I know they have press officers but as most of us don't believe what we read in the press it might be better if they were given a new brief.

Now that's something I would have appreciated an invite to. How quickly can I become part of the 'writers group'; someone give me the subject for an article, quick.

If he's sold to make room for a real off-mid/playmaker I won't have any complaints. ( Real: bit of a play on words there. )

Comments last night from Keane re Hearts keeper: Sunderland have already seen a £5million offer knocked back by Hearts, but reports have claimed that a £9million bid is in the offing. Gordon's agent is unaware of any increased offer for the Scotland international, who has been valued in the £10million category. Though Keane has admitted he would be prepared to spend that sum on a player, he says he is no longer looking to sign Gordon. "No," Keane told reporters after the friendly win at Darlington when asked if he would continue his interest in the keeper. "Anyway, we already have two very good goalkeepers at the club, so it is not an issue. "I will now be looking to strengthen other areas in the squad." The Sunderland manager also confirmed he is still hoping to add at least two more players to his squad after making five new signings to date. -- That statement in bold is sure to improve the morale of his current keepers considering he was interested in this guy but has apparently seen sense and decided he's too expensive.

No one would pay half what he's on apart from Chelsea. Original article claims Terry was on 68k. I think an awful lot of clubs would have paid 70, 75, 80k a week for John Terry.

Exactly what I'd have done, couldn't of got shot of the pair quick enough.

I Googled it after I said that, went to a Reg Vardy site selling used motors with up to date links. Someone appears to be operating under that name.

Car Retailers I think.

Bearing in mind he flashed his arse once already to supporters, (I never saw it, and assuming it was deliberate), what effect could the entire City support screaming abuse at him have, up his game or lose it completely ala Cantona?

Topic title should be changed now I think. And another one bites the dust... Cannavaro.

What channel is it on? mackems.gif

A concept is an idea about something, that concept may or may not be true, so a preconception is an idea already formed before all the information is available and which would most likely not make allowance for any new information, thereby becoming a prejudice. A preconception does not have to be fallacious, it may be accurate. A prejudice, at the very least, is never rational. Something that is made up is clearly fallacious. Neither accurate or rational. We are, all of us, forming preconceptions in our minds all the time. As we read a certain story in a newspaper for example we are forming opinions with limited data. Repeat the story often enough and a blatant lie can become the truth. So if someone comes to believe a lie I wouldn't really say they had 'made things up'. I hope this clears up what I was so clumsily trying to say, it was certainly not my intention to argue with you.

Madras, are you trying to tell me you have no preconceptions?

I've trimmed that right down to focus on that one bolded statement. I'm not so sure anyone makes anything up, at least not consciously. Earlier today ChezGiven pointed out something to me regarding business decisions that made me think... ..or more correctly made me realise something. None of us are privvy to all the facts and yet we are all constantly forming opinions and making judgements on them. In my case I had got caught up in all the rhetoric directed against Shepherd and somewhere along the line decided he was a scumbag. That was an emotional decision that I was barely conscious of.. no, I wasn't conscious of it for I cannot find in my memory when that decision would have been reached. That emotional decision, totally without basis in fact, led me to view someone in a constantly negative way. It is a rather easy step after that to believe anything you read, negatively, in connection with that person as you want to believe it. It supports your preconceptions. So, a bit like Chinese Whispers, a comment here, a comment there, repeated with a word missing, or from a different perception can quickly become a fallacious rumour that others repeat as fact. So for instance, I never made anything up, nor in all likliehood did anyone else, conciously. They just went along with their preconceptions. It may be true, in actual fact, that Shepherd is a scumbag. But I have no real basis for that opinion other than one I created myself. just as bad......................and i'm gonna hate myself for doing this,but...TBH Don't hate yourself for that, that was exactly my point. You don't consciously form a preconception it just happens. What is prejudice but a preconception? But in recognising them you can move past them and that is surely a step forward, just imagine that a nation and it's governments could recognise their prejudices.

I've trimmed that right down to focus on that one bolded statement. I'm not so sure anyone makes anything up, at least not consciously. Earlier today ChezGiven pointed out something to me regarding business decisions that made me think... ..or more correctly made me realise something. None of us are privvy to all the facts and yet we are all constantly forming opinions and making judgements on them. In my case I had got caught up in all the rhetoric directed against Shepherd and somewhere along the line decided he was a scumbag. That was an emotional decision that I was barely conscious of.. no, I wasn't conscious of it for I cannot find in my memory when that decision would have been reached. That emotional decision, totally without basis in fact, led me to view someone in a constantly negative way. It is a rather easy step after that to believe anything you read, negatively, in connection with that person as you want to believe it. It supports your preconceptions. So, a bit like Chinese Whispers, a comment here, a comment there, repeated with a word missing, or from a different perception can quickly become a fallacious rumour that others repeat as fact. So for instance, I never made anything up, nor in all likliehood did anyone else, consciously. They just went along with their preconceptions. It may be true, in actual fact, that Shepherd is a scumbag. But I have no real basis for that opinion other than one I created myself.

Funny if true, certainly possible in todays media crazy world.

I'm hoping Allardyce's "they don't quite understand yet" was a ballsy attempt to focus direction. He has my attention every time he talks. But you don't often hear managers openly criticise new owners in public like that. Might have to rename the club McNewcastle coz I'm lovin' it.

Babayao is not a lost cause yet, nor Carr. I know it seems doubtful he can turn them around but it is possible. Perhaps.

Yep, Allardyce even admits himself he understands the reasons from the new owner's point of view. We'll sign at the very minimum one quality centre-back and a quality left-back. At the same time saying they don't understand, hardly a resonant statement of unity. I'm not a pessimist by nature, indeed it's the opposite. I hope this is resolved quickly but that statement speaks volumes regarding a disharmony of objectives at the current time.

I felt the opposite, that too many people were not attaching enough significance to certain statements. “The difficulty for me is that we’ve had a complete change at the club and they [the new owners] don’t quite understand yet that if you don’t move quickly you can be lost. Does that sound to you like the sound of a well-oiled machine? I have high hopes the situation can be quickly resolved following these statements but todays events may have hindered that process. Or accelerated it. We will see.

I think it is entirely possible this police action has arisen from the review Mort is conducting into club affairs. Of course he would reveal information to the police that had the potential to damage the club if left uncovered. A new broom sweeps clean as they say.

Fairly damning public statement of new owners really. No wonder Allardyce looked tired, he's probably frustrated as fuck and todays events will hardly have helped matters. Or maybe they will polarise the urgency to put things right?