Teasy

Hardly a reject, since Fergie is offering him an improved contract to stay. Obviously he's not really wanted though, otherwise he'd stay, he loves the club doesn't he?, been there for years.

I can't deny it does make me feel a bit better to read that, I'd love to know the specifics of when the manager started to actually get to grips with things. Obviously they must have gone on a excellent run late on to finish 11th if they were relegation candidates for a lot of the season.

Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? Villa went 16 games without a win at one point last season I remember reading somewhere. Villa finished 11th, that's 5 places above where they finished the season before O'Niel. Believe it or not, we still have every chance of finishing above where we finished last season, even in the top 10!! You think we have every chance of getting at least 50 points this season?? (because that's what its going to take to get top 10).

But it isn't just Wigan is it? And the result at Wigan certainly wasn't the worst thing about that game either. The worst things was seeing a Newcastle side hoofing the ball as far as they could up field every single time they got possesion for 45 minutes straight. I'd be interested to read that, I've definitely missed that post if he said all that.

Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? Villa went 16 games without a win at one point last season I remember reading somewhere. Villa finished 11th, that's 5 places above where they finished the season before O'Niel.

Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? He doesn't give many specifics though (unless its not the post I read). He says something about "the same situation", but he only seems to be referring to results not being great. What I'd like to hear from Villa and Everton fans is what they thought of there managers during those bad times, actual specific details. Did they see that the managers were doing things more or less the right way but results just weren't coming? Or that they got some things wrong but kept learning how best to use the players until things went right. Or did they look at there manager and say "What the f*** are you doing?, not this s*** again!, its the same every week, your decisions are unfathomable and its making it impossible for us to win!". Because that's what I think most weeks There have been a couple of blips where we've done half decent, but they're few and far between. We did well against the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal because the way Allardyce has us playing is the right way to play against those teams. The problem is he doesn't change the way we play no matter who we play. Its always about stopping the opposition playing us and getting the ball into the box at all costs, quantity over quality. That's not the right way to play Wigan or Derby.. we can outplay them, we've got better players!

I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, showing you're getting to grips with the players you have available and how to use them best, that's what a manager needs to do to get more time. Allardyce hasn't shown any of that, he just wants to cram the players we have into 'the bolton way' of playing Football, which as far as I can see is barely Football at all. See people always mention the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well.

Been reading the papers have you?..

We're not in a position to compete with them for non-rejects. We don't need to sign the worlds best, but we should still be able to attract top players. If City can sign quality players like Petrov and Elano, why can't we? They were both rejects. Just at Athletico Madrid and Shacktar not the top 4. Are you telling me Shacktar didn't actually want Elano?.. He was a sub most of the time and they sold him on the cheap. Abit like Wes Brown... No, he was a sub most of the time in his first season, in the second season he played almost every game, broke into the Brazil squad, and was sold for £8 million..

A better explanation is that Allardyce is an arrogant overrated clown and the final cockup of Fat Fred's time here, one final mistake left from the Fred era that needs to be removed so we can start a fresh properly

The reason the clubs that do well are usually the ones that keep there manager for a while is f****** obvious Nicky, because they're doing well! Why sack a manager who's doing well?.. Managers that show signs of improving things at a club get kept and they're the ones that tend to do well. Managers who are stuborn idiots who seem to be sabotaging there own team get the sack, before they f*** things up even more. The fat man has until the end of the season at most IMO.

We're not in a position to compete with them for non-rejects. We don't need to sign the worlds best, but we should still be able to attract top players. If City can sign quality players like Petrov and Elano, why can't we? They were both rejects. Just at Athletico Madrid and Shacktar not the top 4. Are you telling me Shacktar didn't actually want Elano?..

do you really think that fat t*** would fetch £80m at this point in his career? No my point is that Ronaldo is Ronaldo, and Cristiano Ronaldo is Cristiano Ronaldo. It's important to see that difference. Don't you mean one is Cristiano Ronaldo and the other is Ronaldo Luis Nazário de Lima Seriously though I agree, that little spotty puff doesn't deserve to be called just 'Ronaldo'.

Smith on the bench?, not a chance unfortunately. I'm beggining to wish he was African

No team has ever stayed in the Premiership with 32 points or less. The lowest total to keep a team in the Premiership was 34 points for West Brom in the 2004-2005 season (they scraped it by a single point in a record low season). The average (not counting the first three seasons due to the extra teams at the time) is just over 37*. But to aim for the average would be pretty dangerous, teams have been relegated on 38 points a couple of times, 40 points on a couple of occasions and on one occasion 42 points. Like I said we need 40 points to make sure (even then its not 100% sure). *When looking at the average points total for teams staying up I didn't use the teams final points total. Instead I used the third bottom teams total plus one point. Since this shows the lowest total a team could have stayed up on each season rather then what they did stay up on.

I don't mean he has one game literally, I mean if we get knocked out of the FA Cup, that'll be him gone whether it's after that or in May, there will be no turning back for him from that point on. I honestly believe his only way out of this would be to win the FA Cup. That's the only thing he could give the new owner, Chairman and fans as a peace offering to bide himself the time he clearly craves and needs. Not at all, that makes us sound just as bad as the idiotic press makes us out to be. Simply improving things on the pitch* and finishing in a respectable mid table position would be enough for most people to give him a chance. If he started improving against stoke and kept it up I'd be behind him, I just can't see it happening. *No more negative football against poor sides, sensible formation and tactics with players in the right positions (never play Smith in midfield again!) and actually play some football.

We'll need another 14 points from our remaining 17 games to guarantee survival. Five of those games are against Manure (a), Arsenal (a), Manure (h), Liverpool (a) and Chelsea (h). Lets be generous and say we get 2 points from those matches, we then need 12 points from the next 12 matches against: EDIT: Secret teams with special names people aren't allowed to write... which address do I send my £300 to before I can actually make a point on a forum for f*** sake!!

Yeh but he doesn't use it Where is this 'pace' that people keep talking about? Butt put him through in the first half at Chelsea, he had a metre on the defender and was caught with ease. It appears if has two options he'll choose the wrong (the selfish approach) one. Surely you realise that running fast on the ball requires more then just pace? It requires pace and close control, Martins doesn't have the control. Which means that in a situation where he needs to keep the ball reasonably close to him (with a defender in front of him, or in the case you mention a goal keeper) he has to slow right down to manage it.

Yes, lets stick with a manager who is not good enough, and get right behind him as he makes us the top of the bottom half of the Premier League. f****** pathetic - him and us, if we sit and lamely accept a manager like Allardyce. After. Twenty. Games. After twenty easy games, twenty occasions where Allardyce has picked a incredibly unbalanced team with many players being rendered useless because of being played out of position. He hasn't adapted or learnt from his mistakes despite having twenty chances to do so over the course of 7 months. Is he mentally retarded?, or just the wrong person for the job?

But we didn't pass the ball over the midfield last night. The midfield had plenty of the ball, but couldn't do a thing with it. Also passing to a team mate is not the same thing as being able to pass through a defence for a team mate to run on to, something none of the three you mentioned have been able to do. Still I agree with part of what your saying. Even if we bought someone like Elano he would be wasted in the massive majority of games with the way Allardyce wants his team to "play". However I think last night he would have made a world of difference.

Shepherd may have been an ignorant fat c*nt but why would Hitzfeld have ever even considered coming to us? He's nearly 60 years old, has spent all his career managing Geman or Swiss clubs and we are, lets face it, more than a gnats cock away from Champions League football. Of course Switzerland are just a whisker away from winning a major competition aren't they...

nothing other than conservative unambitious claptrap from start to finish We'll spend more in this window than we did in the last January transfer window under the previous board. Will we buy a player of the calibre of Woodgate, beating off our rivals and paying the money, and will we match those Champions League qualifications in the long run ? Since when did we buy Woodgate last January? We certainly didn't qualify for the Champions League either..

sure you were there as it wasn't a s*** performance (s*** result i'll grant ya),not agreat performance but better then derby and birmingham,pompey and liverpool. at times tonight we played attacking football with plan and passion. we didn't get the result we deserved (a draw against a team with 1 away win this season). Being a better performance then Derby doesn't make it a good performance, or even a decent one, and no I wouldn't agree in the slightest that it was better then Birmingham (which was still poor). The first half was a decent performance, the second a disgrace, averaged it was a very poor performance against a terrible away team. Yes we were unlucky, be that doesn't excuse the shit that we saw in the last 55+ minutes of the game.

Are you mental? Look at the remaining fixtures again and then tell me it can only get better.

This just shows that people outside of the club have no idea how bad this situation is, 11th?, we could only dream of finishing 11th.. Have you seen our remaining fixtures in comparison to the ones we've already played?