HawK

In their managerial careers, if their teams ever come up against each other, we just know it's going to be all great on paper yet actually devolve into an inexplicably ineffective spectacle of a football match.

Classic N-O mong response. My fault for thinking spending that time posting a detailed argument wasn't going to be responded with a comically irrelevant shitpost.

As stated, it's a fairly common opinion on here that Mitrovic was poor/shit in his first season (go back a few hundred pages to see that), just as it was a common opinion on here that he was OK/decent for a young player in a new country thrown into a mediocre team. So logically you'd be accusing me of revising the past if you think Mitrovic was good/decent. That's a given. I'm not discounting that possibility. The point I made is that from my perspective, because I am in the "Mitro in first season was poor" camp, others seem to be revising the past based on their bias towards the player. You've not really covered that. Another point which I hadn't raised but which you've failed to acknowledge in your factually incorrect statement above is that an additional method of revisionism is retrospectively extrapolating performances from stats and then saying "oh he must have been decent, look at this number on paper, see?", as you've done in your next sentence. Anyway, "nothing but your own opinion" is a tad nonsensical. Everything on here is opinions, including your opinion on interpretation of stats when judging a player (which I'm sure won't be consistent when it comes to universally accepted mediocre/crap players who have good stats on paper occasionally, e.g. Shola in 05/06). Plus, it's not just my own opinion, I've already made the point that noone went near Mitro after relegation, and since his "good debut PL season" he's only played in the Championship, which if anything is far more a concrete argument that supports my view. Already explained, in some depth too, re: expectations. The stats are decent on paper certainly, but that why I specifically said I went by what I've seen. The poor performances far outweighed the positive stats, and the failure to do the basics as the season wore on is what has led to the opinion I and others have that he had a poor first season in spite of the OK'ish stats. Again, seeing that he's spent 2 years in the Championship since that supposed (according to you) good quality breakthrough first PL season, at a club with an owner who sells at every opportunity and under a world class manager who doesn't rate him, potentially backs that up. Just as another example, according to WhoScored.com Mitrovic had an average rating of 6.67 in 2015/16 for us in the PL. Shola Ameobi had an average rating of 6.72 in 2010/11 (21(7) appearances, 6 PL goals, 3 assists). I've said plenty of times that Rafa and Mitro are mutually exclusive and I'd rather have Rafa, and also elsewhere I think Mitrovic will go on to have a good career. Just admit it you've been overly critical - his first season was not 'gash' , it was at least decent and quite promising.

Don't understand the agenda behind this sort of opinion being peddled out all the time. By any measure, he had a good debut season in the PL, all circumstances considered. A different opinion to yours doesn't necessarily have an agenda. I've gone entirely by what I've seen and remembered, nothing else, and listed exactly what I thought he showed in his first season with us. If anything, I'd argue the agenda is more on the side of Mitrovic admirers (i.e. they like him as a person, reputation/image/attitude, celebrations, "madness", whatever) - imo it's borderline revisionism to claim he had a good debut season when for large parts the lad struggled to control a football and looked like he had two left feet when on the end of chances. But then that's my opinion of his performance standards, which is obviously subjective. I'm sure if we go back far enough in this thread to the middle/end of the first season there'll be plenty of posts about how shit he was and plenty of other posts saying he was decent and that he's young/learning. Revisionism is saying he was gash based on nothing but your own opinion. As a 21 year old newcomer to the Premier League he score 9 goals in 22 starts and 12 sub appearances and contributed 4 assists, while following the guidelines laid out by tactical mastermind Steve McClaren. What more do you expect from a 21 year old new to the PL?

Paul Ince?

Don't understand the agenda behind this sort of opinion being peddled out all the time. By any measure, he had a good debut season in the PL, all circumstances considered.

Don't be silly, no way he could hold it that long.

Wrap the stats in [ code] tags

Just the way it was at the time. https://www.newcastle-online.org/forum/index.php?topic=48631.0 Some belting quotes for McClaren in there If only we knew what lay a decade ahead and we'd give him 80mil That list. It was super-close to being Redknapp until he decided his dogs would get too homesick. Redknapp laid the foundations for Poch, when Harry met Levy was the sliding doors moment for Newcastle and Tottenham.

If anything I just think he came into the picture a bit late. I watched the press conference and the answer he gave suggests that he won't fit into the 'group'.

Glad someone mentioned Big Sam first Yeah, I was one of the few who was a bit gutted when Ashley sacked him. Was happy when he came in from Bolton and - ok we lost to Derby - but we weren't in particularly bad form. Let's start a support group, #MeToo

The one silver lining of Rafa leaving would be the parting shots. But deep down I know Rafa is just too goddamn professional and considered to actually do it. But if he did.. oh those parting shots. He could destroy Ashley, he really could. Opinion - Would anyone accept Rafa leaving with the guarentee of also removing Ashley?

I don't mind Fat Sam as a manager and was disappointed when he got himself sacked off the England job. I view England as the Stoke of world football and I think we need an appropriate manager. I was even a bit disappointed when he got sacked at Newcastle, but obviously over the moon when we got Keegan in. Looking forward to being proved wrong this summer but how a former England central defender doesn't even look at one of the two highest rated centre backs by Opta for the whole season is not only criminal, it's vindictive. Does he have that much of his stint in Boro ingrained into him that he actively disuades himself from considering our players?

Which is why we haven't heard about Shelvey, he's not going to get any type of phone call. He's not been in the squad for ages so doubt he'd get a call just to tell him he's still not in. Thanks for simplifying my point ?

Which is why we haven't heard about Shelvey, he's not going to get any type of phone call.

All the more farcical if he doesn't go

Kenedy's first vs Southampton needs more love.

We are not spending anything over £25m net this summer. Not a chance. That's including Dubravka.

We lost by 3 or more goals only twice all season, with teams like Liverpool and Manchester City scoring for fun that's simply astonishing. The grit and determination instilled in this squad by Rafa was almost immeasurable, now it isn't. Incredible.

Nope :/ It's like you've managed to pull a 9/10 stunner who's also smart and well educated and for some reason she agreed to move in with you at some point even though you're probably a 5 or 6 at best and you work in the local Aldi as a shelf stacker. You take her to meet your parents and they're making fart jokes over the dinner table and the sofa smells of wee. They promise they'll do better but it's the same every time she meets them. You enjoy it while you can, but you know deep down in the back of your mind that it can't last because of factors you just can't control, your parents are fuckwits and you just don't have the money or allure to keep her long term. You sing her name every time you see her which makes her smile, but you just know she's just one step away from moving in with Grant, the annoyingly good looking lawyer with the flashy car that you just know won't treat her right.

Dubravka

See that's where it's all going wrong, Rafa's all trains and carriages and Ashley is still on about horses and carts. No wonder we're still all fucked up.

Would love him as our No.10 next season.

Riviere or Joselu