alpal78

Exactly, it's getting silly now and a lot seems to be based solely on the defence of one player. I like Ben Arfa a hell of a lot, he can be an absolute genius and has the natural ability far beyond a player we could (normally) realistically attract but it's also not difficult to see why he would cause a manager concern at times. It is a genuine shame that the issue is stopping some from enjoying a fantastic season. You can guarantee the same group will moan before every game that he won't start, moan if he doesn't start (usually with a comment like "well that's cost us the game!") or if he does start moan that others on the pitch didn't give him enough chances to show what he can do. He has the attention Barton could only dream of He has done brilliantly in the limited chances he has been given but there have also been clear signs why a manager who has based our eye opening success this season on team work has had to hold him back at times. Out of curiosity, what is his problem with team work? He is not a team player? you must have missed his assist and chances that he created? Or are his potential replacements better at "teamwork" whatever that means? I do agree though that he has to find the balance between dribbling and making simple passes. He does not need to go for the killer move all the time, football is also a game of patience and control

What's tired is the same old tedious straw man of arguing that anyone who'd criticize Ben Arfa in the slightest is somebody who'd like to see us start with Shola and Obertan every game. He's obviously a good player but he had abysmally bad games against Brighton and Blackburn that highlighted his weaknesses. I don't think that's an unreasonable statement to make. Well done, deal with an alleged strawman with a strawman of your own. Whose saying you can't criticize him? What's the point though if it's not in the context of how we should line up against Villa? I guess if you just like to moan, then by all means go ahead

I disagree. It depends what you mean by giving the ball away. If you mean only when a player tries to dribble then of course coz no other f***er except maybe Jonas and occasionally Best dribbles. Why should a long ball that is headed away by the opponent's center back not be considered as 'giving the ball away'? Not quite sure on your point of defensive support, of course in terms of positioning all attacking players by default should be staying high up the pitch when we have the ball so that they emm attack. The point is when we lose the ball, HBA is no different from other players in tracking his opposite number or moving down to help the defence Aside from the fact that it happens for frequently, there's an obvious qualitative difference here. For the former, everyone is in an attacking position and very vulnerable to counterattacks. For the latter, there is time and space to recover. The second point is just wrong imo. On average HBA always occupies more advanced position than his counterparts in similar areas of the pitch So by that logic unless we buy a Messi who won't lose the ball when he tries a dribble, we should just resort to hoofing the ball up because of this qualitative difference that you mentioned never mind that our long balls have rarely ever worked. On the positioning, can't agree with you. I don't see any difference with HBA, when we have the ball, he is generally in the right wing position, in fact sometimes he comes to the right middle of the field to get the ball and when we don't have the ball, he does his fair share of defending. Surely he does not have a great tackle, but same goes for Obertan, you're still not acknowledging the relative argument that unless we have someone better, it's just pointless arguing to drop him unless Obertan can replicate the form he showed in the last few minutes against Blackburn over a much longer period.

I disagree. It depends what you mean by giving the ball away. If you mean only when a player tries to dribble then of course coz no other fucker except maybe Jonas and occasionally Best dribbles. Why should a long ball that is headed away by the opponent's center back not be considered as 'giving the ball away'? Not quite sure on your point of defensive support, of course in terms of positioning all attacking players by default should be staying high up the pitch when we have the ball so that they emm attack. The point is when we lose the ball, HBA is no different from other players in tracking his opposite number or moving down to help the defence

Ben Arfa comes with significant disadvantages, i.e. his tendency to give away the ball, his lack of defensive support etc. What's supposed to cancel out these disadvantages is supposed to be his unparalleled flair and natural ability that can produce moments of brilliance. As such, his production needs to be held to a higher standard than others. He's the kind of player you'd expect to turn things around when the others aren't preforming well. If he is just expected to play well when the rest of the team does and is immune to criticism when he plays badly, (he was much worse than most of his teammates were against Blackburn mind,) what's the point? Obviously he's better than Obertan, but Obertan is f***ing terrible. This guy needs to be held to higher standards. Nice attempt but flaws in quite a few areas. This gives the ball away point has been debated to death, all our players do especially when we play long ball. The only attacking player who is an exception is Jonas. This lack of defensive support is a figment of your imagination no doubt aided by stereotype that flair players must be lazy. Sure he's no ace in performing sliding tackle or clearing the ball off the line BUT whenever HBA loses the ball, he works as hard as any player in getting the ball back. He tracks back well into the defensive half if the fullback overlaps. Observe his defensive game next time you watch. Finally all this talk is fine if we have a better alternative, we don't

Getting them both back is crazy especially after having to see Shola play. It's such a massive upgrade that I don't even know how to describe it! This could be the push we need, too bad we don't have Tiote and Cabaye. I do have concerns if they will get the supply they need, especially if as expected HBA is dropped to the bench.

Yup, there's political undertone rather then your usual football violence/hooliganism.

we'll get someone cheap or on loan but am confident no important player (Tiote, Ba, Colocini, HBA, Krul in no particular order) will be leaving

The part that really p*ssed me off was in the last few minutes when we got a corner. Ok the corner wasn't perfect but in that situation, you would have expected him to clamor for the ball and do all he can to make the most of it. Instead he didn't even bother a half hearted jump! He just stood fixed to the ground and then later look behind as if wondering why there was no other striker behind him. That to me sums up Shola, he rarely goes for the ball, all he does is just stand there and expect others to pass to him and even then it has to be a super pass, or else he won't bother!

what do you mean? He didn't mean to take his life??? Coroner, "the evidence does not sufficiently determine whether this was intentional or accidental". Thanks but how can it be an accident? Don't mean to be disrespectful but he was playing around with a rope and accidentally strangled himself???

what do you mean? He didn't mean to take his life???

What's more frustrating is when a bloke with the incredible talent that he has, can't take the game by the scruff of the neck against a very average championship team. It's games like that I want him to step up and show what he can do. Dunno, does football really work like that? Brighton aren't that bad a side, and any well-organised and motivated football team can make it difficult for better teams to play. And HBA was also handicapped by the presence of Shola and Best ahead of him. I know he didn't have a great game, but I'm not sure what you're expecting him to do. The whole team failed to overcome Brighton. Shut up man, he is supposed to dribble past 5-6 players then belt it in all the time!

What's behind this kind of ludicrous mentality? Sense of entitlement. Think Liverpool, multiply by a thousand. To understand Madrid you have to look at the history. It is the one and only true "superclub" -- ever. This is arguably the best period in Barca's history, at least on the European stage, whereas Madrid was winning the European Cup for jokes in the 1950s. They once were the blazing symbol for Spanish nationalism, the King's own personal team, as close to royalty as football teams can ever get, and they burned bright. And then they became something completely different, Franco's lackeys and also the face of Fascism, and they took all the lows that also come with being a Nationalist symbol. This club has always been more than a club, same as Barca has been. I have the utmost respect for the Catalans, but to say Madrid fans are fickle simple because they have a misguided sense of entitlement a la Liverpool is a gross simplification. I'm sure VI can extrapolate on the subject better when he takes a more objective stance to Real Madrid. Like that's ever gonna happen

And this is the guy who is going to be the next England manager? Seriously if true, then this alone should disqualify him from any role for England

Knowing our fucking luck, one of them if not both will get a serious injury in their last group game which means fuck all to Senegal anyway and we won't see the partnership till next season (that is assuming we don't sell Ba in the summer)!

You have a point. They could come back determined to prove themselves that they are really good or we could get a Rooney/Torres post world cup syndrome which would be a complete disaster!

Actually I'm with you. For me he lost his balance and there was no intention to stamp. We can all go on hypothesizing of where his foot should have landed but when you lose balance, there is really no control. Balotelli wasn't falling towards one direction, his momentum was combination of two directions. Plus with a stamping incident, it's usually as a pay back for an earlier tackle or in some cases aimed at the star player to injure him. There was no previous altercation between Parker and Balotelli and Parker is probably one of the least 'star player' in Spurs. I also agree that Rooney's lashing out at Colo was more dangerous and definitely more intentional because Colo was on the floor right in front of him and he lashed out not once but thrice. But Rooney get's away with it because he is our hope for the national team, hypocrisy from the FA .

and that's bad?

In hindsight, it might have helped more had he gone for the foul in the first half (the first pull at the half way line, not the offence he got booked for). We were still one up then. Anyway, it was a massive warning that Pardew didn't heed in spite of having half time to deal with it. Exactky, that incident showed what Fulham had in mind. Baird's substitution only served to solidify their midfield but the tactics of playing ball over the top for the likes of Johnson, Dempsey and Zamora to run on to started in the first half. We had a narrow miss and Pards didn't react. That's my gripe with Pards, he is unable to read the game fast enough and to react when the opposite manager changes things around

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap. my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us. And you want the defence to move up and to be caught with ball over the top over and over again....brilliantly Pardewisque. Basic rule of playing a high line, you need quick defenders who can chase the ball over the top. We should never play a high line coz none of our defenders are fast enough for this, especially Colo and Williamson. no, you try to read that and cover all fronts, it's called defending. thats why you don't man mark all over the pitch but take up positions to mark the man and cover other outcomes. Seriously Madras, you're not making any sense. No matter how well you cover or take up positions, when our defenders play high, all Fulham needed to do was hit the ball into the wide gaping space behind the defence which is really not difficult for most premiership players. The only way you can play a high defence is either to have fast defenders or outnumber them in midfield and hustle them so that their midfield can't put the ball over the top. We did neither i'm not saying we played a high line (something thats been all the rage on here since waddle went on and on about away at citeh the other year), we played where you'd expect given their dropping off when johnson came on, it wasn't a tactic just basic what most teams do in that situation, i'd also say if we hadn't been chasing the game those gaps wouldn't have been there. Ok I have no idea whether we deliberately played a high line because that was our tactics or whether we naturally played high to follow Johnson who was playing deeper as you claimed. Whatever the reason, we are not equipped to play a high line and should have our defenders sit deeper/stay back. I appreciate the point that this will mean that Johnson will likely get the ball but given that his skills are limited and that he will still have to beat our defenders who will be in front of him, it is far less damaging then having one of Dempsey, Zamora and Johnson only having Krul to beat once they get the ball over the top.

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap. my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us. And you want the defence to move up and to be caught with ball over the top over and over again....brilliantly Pardewisque. Basic rule of playing a high line, you need quick defenders who can chase the ball over the top. We should never play a high line coz none of our defenders are fast enough for this, especially Colo and Williamson. no, you try to read that and cover all fronts, it's called defending. thats why you don't man mark all over the pitch but take up positions to mark the man and cover other outcomes. Seriously Madras, you're not making any sense. No matter how well you cover or take up positions, when our defenders play high, all Fulham needed to do was hit the ball into the wide gaping space behind the defence which is really not difficult for most premiership players. The only way you can play a high defence is either to have fast defenders or outnumber them in midfield and hustle them so that their midfield can't put the ball over the top. We did neither

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap. my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us. Moving up when a pacey player comes on is suicidal. We were trying to catch them offside 5 yards in our own half. standing off them and giving them the ball inspace is suicidal also, what do you suggest ? i don't think the plan was to push up but do as most temas do and follow the opposition, if the push up you sit deeper, if they drop in you push up. Not as suicidal as moving up and then only to be beaten over the top. The crucial distinction is that if you stay back and give the strikers space, they still need to beat our defenders or have long range pops. Move up and get beaten by the ball over the top and the striker is already through with just the keeper to beat. Can't believe that I'm even arguing this, it's so fucking obvious and you are usually post sensible stuff.

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap. my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us. And you want the defence to move up and to be caught with ball over the top over and over again....brilliantly Pardewisque. Basic rule of playing a high line, you need quick defenders who can chase the ball over the top. We should never play a high line coz none of our defenders are fast enough for this, especially Colo and Williamson.

The thing is with players like Nani, when they dribble and do step-overs, it looks like they are trying very hard. But with HBA it just comes naturally in one fluid motion

Nani-iesque