merlin

You mean like Maric, Marcelino, Dyer, Goma etc etc...?? These all proved to be GREAT club servants, didn't they?......NOT!! And what about his alienation of Rob Lee and Shearer ? What about the fact that he was so arrogant that our best midfielder, Hamman, fell out with him and demanded a transfer..??

Really bad behaviour from Given if this is true - he has had a really good run in the side in past years, and just because he's currently out of the side, he's spitting the dummy out ; DEPLORABLE ! What gives him the right to dictate team selection ? We have now got a selection problem of the best sort in defence - presumably, Beye, Faye, Capaca , Enrique & Rozy didn't sign for Sam with the proviso that they 'MUST' be in the team.. I would recall Krul asap, and put Given on the list if he makes waves about this - really selfish attitude when we are building a good squad/team spirit.

About 20 years ago, the French decided to concentrate on developing the skills of young players and set up an Academy to do so - this was supposedly tried in England when Lilleshall was running, but it has now been closed down. The French, however, have won the WC and produced some really good players since... There are several reasons why English youngsters don't come through now, and first among them is the fact that many School playing fields have been sold off. Also, attitudes are poor in schools, ranging from over Politically-Correct views frowning on 'Winners' to lack of interest by so-called PE teachers. Many kids nowadays are unfit, preferring to sit in front of computers instead of playing games outside, and in some cases, their parents think its unsafe to allow them to.... When some child happens to show promise, they often get into the hands of 'Coaches' who want then to concentrate of the physical aspects of the game instead of developing their ball-skills, and so their talent is often coached out of them - Gazza was hauled in front of Jack Charlton once back in 84, because Colin Suggett(coach of juniors) complained that he wasn't obeying instructions and was overweight - Big Jack asked Gazza what he was doing, and Gazza burst into tears and told JC that Suggett was bollocking him for not passing the ball when he was, of course, beating defenders easily with his skill . Charlton told him he had to get his weight down in 2 weeks, BUT - he COULD keep beating defenders with skill as long as he passed the ball when he was under too much pressure. Suggett was told to lay off him a bit, and the rest is history..... I reckon there are many similar things in English football, but we never hear about them as the youngsters give up or fade into obscurity. Its no accident that most talented players come from areas of relative poverty - Brazil & Argentina spring to mind, and most decent French players are former immigrants(Rugby is the preferred game in France anyway).In Britain, there is no REAL hardship anymore, and areas like the North East & Scotland, once hot beds of talented kids, no longer produce them in any quantity.

Don't think that is true - Local Hero was being played long before Shearer signed OR Shepherd became Chairman.

Agree with most of that Mick - Man U have disappointed so far , Chelsea have looked off the pace by their standards, Arsenal are not as convincing but Liverpool look greatly-improved - Torres' signing was a bit of a gamble as to whether he would settle quickly, but he has been a revelation, and despite those who rubbished him when we failed to sign him, I wish we had Kuyt now - what an asset to a side he is with his attitiude.Those 2 will get goals and I will be surprised if Liverpool are not in the Top 3 at the end. Villa and ourselves are on a par(we probably have a bit more defensive cover, whereas they have youth & pace up front), Everton are rivals for a top 6 place as are Blackburn - Hughes has done a good job. Spurs are, as you said, more like Newcastle than we are now - up & down and giving goals away although the Fulham equaliser was lucky. Suspect all is not well there and, as we know to our cost, if there are problems OFF the field, they tend to encroach on to it as well...they may do better with a new manager... If we had a bit more in the midfield brains dept., and more pace up front, we would be knocking on the Top 4 door by the end, but I reckon 7th is probably where we'll end up.

I think like last season, we badly need a pacy midfield player or front runner. When the club sold Dyer and Nobby, they should have brought in a different player to either Faye or Merde. Apart from that, we needed more steel, more character, more leadership, and he's bought the right type of players in that respect. From this point on, more quality needed in the front players to break into the top elite again. I think we should get into the top 6 or 7. A front player would have made 4th place a possibility. That's a fair comment - reflects most of my own views.

Shepherd's gone - HISTORY. Just drop this thread immediately, because its irrelevant - we all know(or MOST of us !) that Shepherd left the club in a worse position than when he took over ; end of story. The new board face a big job in restoring our credibility ,but have made a great start as has Allardyce - and before anyone mentions that Shepherd appointed him, look back to the time he fired Robson and could have had Big Sam then - except that Shepherd had Shearer on the interviewing board according to Allardyce - now THAT'S real Chairmanship, isn't it !!?? For heaven's sake lets stop fighting the battles of the last war and concentrate on the future - it looks a good deal better than the past right now...

I think Sam acted hastily when he gave the captaincy to Geremi - it looks to me as if having that thrust on him has affected his game ; he hasn't been half as effective since. The deed is done now, but I wish it had been given to Capaca - the guy was captain of Lyon in 5 title-winning seasons and looks an inspiring player who would have led by example. To me, he is the natural choice.

I have a feeling that you might have to start eating those words - Chelsea might take a different view after yesterday, and in case you start accusing me of 'knee-jerk', I said last year that O'Neill WOULD make his detractors eat their words ; it may have escaped your attention that O'Neill wanted to sign Milner DESPITE having 2 quick young players like Young & Agbonhalor.....

I agree KK - back in 99, I thought Given went through a really bad spell and at that time, Harper should have been in the side. We have been very lucky to have 2 good keepers over the past 9 years - Given is probably better at reaction saves when the ball is hit close in, but I think Harper has the edge on commanding the area - the defenders know he will come out for a cross, whereas sometimes Shay is hesitant. Harper always looks less flustered and the only time he has really made a bad mistake was at Anfield - even then, it was a flukey bounce of the ball that wrong-footed him.. They are BOTH decent keepers and I reckon Sam will not drop Harper until he makes some bad errors - as with the defence, we need competition for places to keep players on their toes.

This game turned out just as I thought it might(a winner late on), but it shouldn't have done - the blame for this lies with the officials. The Asst flagged(presumably)Viduka offside after Owen scored early on, and the guys in the Fox studio proved he was onside and the goal should have stood. Also, a blatant handball by our sadly(NOT!)departed former CB should have been a cast-iron pen. Had either of those decisions been correctly handled, we would have won easily - Owen could have had a Hat-trick as he would probably have taken the pen. The main plus from this game is the way we plugged away despite everything going against us - something we haven't always done in past years - and we got the rewards in the end - what a relief ! The defence looked rock-solid, but will have far tougher tests than this - wait & see if we can keep the likes of Torres quiet for 90 mins - but the pairing of Capaca and Roz looks formidable and Taylor did well at RB, and almost put us ahead. The only slight questionmark remains over Zog at LB, and we need Enrique match fit ASAP. Once that happens, we should have one of the best defences in the Prem. The only real worry is keeping Owen fit - he is by far our best hope for goals, and I thought the guy was excellent today, he's starting to look sharp again. If anything happens to him we WILL struggle to score as both Martins & Viduka will not get more than 15 each - wherever they play . Altogether, I'm well-pleased with the progress being made - we WILL have bad results , inevitably, but we are definitely going in the right direction - with some luck and a good signing in Jan, we could even start thinking about trying to make top 5, but 6-8th is well within our reach.

Yes, but look who was in charge...!! Also, with Gazza gone, we had lost the 'meat' in the sandwich of the team - we signed people at the back & the front, but didn't address the loss of the 'brains'... Also, would YOU have signed Robertson..!!

As with the Villa game, they will attempt to frustrate us, and I would be very happy if we sneak it 1-0. We all know that until Barton is fit, we are short of creativity in midfield, although even he is more of a box-to-box player than a shrewd passer of the ball, which is where we really are short.. I expect plenty of possession from us, but anticipate a tight game - if they score first, we will face an uphill battle, whereas if WE score first, I expect us to win - even if its only by one.... Its going to be a learning curve for both team AND fans over the next couple of months, and patience will be required ; give the new players time to get to know each other & don't expect too much too soon - If we happen to get a decent win, take it as a bonus until the team really beds in. A last minute scrambled goal will do if that's what it takes - we need the 3 points before the International break.

Agreed, and DON'T forget how the team was sold short in 2003 as he wanted his dividends...that and his nepotism etc etc added to the points made already, are why he was a bad Chairman.

As I said on another thread, the signings of these 2 guys complete the best defensive line-up the club has had for many years - certainly the best since the Fairs Cup side, and even better than them in footballing skills, although Davie Craig was a very skillful full back. I was too young to see the 50s side play live, so cannot really compare but I believe we now have the best collection of class defenders since those days. We all should agree that whatever the shortcomings of the side(and there aren't many now), Sam, Chris Mort and Mike Ashley have done a great job in their own fields - Sam has used his undoubted knowledge of the modern game to get us some cracking players at a ridiculously-low total outlay, Mort has backed him - QUIETLY - and Ashley has put foundations in that we all wanted by getting rid of the previous regime and paying off a large slice of the Club's debt.... Fantastic job, guys - Very Well Done !!

The signings of Beye and Faye would complete an excellent transformation of our defence in the space of a few months - as I said yesterday about Rozy, the players Sam has brought in represent a complete turnround in the Club's buying policies ; we used to get stung for huge fees to sign basically ordinary(and in some cases, actually bad)players. With Rozy, Capaca, Beye, Faye and Enrique, we have got a defence which is full of both experience and quality - yes, most of them are around 30, but all have at least 3 years in them, and both Enrique & Rozy will give us at least 5 - all this in return for around 10.5m quid in fees, absolutely magic buying.. And how much did we get for Dyer & Parker...!! All we really need now is a decent playmaker to get the forwards moving properly and we will really be in business ; in mt opinion, Sam is doing it the right way, and building from the back. Many NUFC fans don't like this approach, but history tells you that its the only way to long-term success. It may not be pretty to watch at first and we will all grumble about scrappy football, but as long as we start winning and maybe even getting a trophy on board, we will gradually get better players in he creative positions. Its all great stuff - lets hope that, in true NUFC style, something doesn't come along to drag defeat out of the jaws of victory....!!

I reckon Rozenhal is, on the evidence so far,one of the best value-for-money buys of the summer. As has been pointed out, he does sometimes have a tendency to be caught upfield, but this doesn't happen often. He is a very mobile CB, and that is what modern Central defending is all about - mobility and comfort on the ball as well as being able to tackle.If Capaca turns out to be similar(and he looked good in his short appearance on Sunday)then Sam has made 2 really excellent signings - the sort that none of our recent managers - an I include SBR in that assessment - have seemed able to pull off. They have all spent huge amounts on players, but very few have come close to being as good value as these 2 seem to be, bearing in mind the financial outlay.

Only if you have a taste for pernicious, scare-mongering bullshit. Yet more Left wing garbage I see - or did you fail to witness the 'Death to British Police'posters held by Muslim women on full jilbabs when the Police in London were protecting them from OTHER demonstrators?? Or was that pernicious, scaremongering photography...? You only see what you want to see don't you ?

We've lacked proper team spirit for ages - even in SBRs time, there were fall-outs with Shearer & Bellamy and the constant undercurrent of dissatisfaction expressed by the senior pros like Speed & Shearer regarding the attitudes of Dyer & his ilk. KK generally had a good Dressing room, but I reckon the 92/93 promotion side had a better spirit than any of its successors . Its very difficult to keep a decent squad of players happy in the Prem, but it looks as if BSA has bought players who will pull together - add that to a more professional control from the top and you have the basics for building a good CLUB in every sense of the word - I bet none of the players view the new Board with the same lack of respect they had for the previous one, and no wonder - these guys look as if they mean it....

I can actually sympathise with that view, and its probably sensible at this time.

And wanting Sharia law in Britain is idiotic in my opinion (Or religion being a basis of law anywhere else for that matter - I'm not to keen on what's happening in Turkey at the moment for a start), but you fail to mention that the same ICM poll had 99% saying the suicide attacks on London were wrong and 91% saying they felt loyalty to Britain. Anyway, the epic Mido chants thread is that way Don't believe that figure about 91% of Muslims feeling 'loyalty to Britain' - if that is true, how does that stack up with the 40% that want Sharia Law(stoning women for adultery, mutilation , women's faces covered up etc. etc)? You should read 'Londonistan' by Melanie Phillips - that tells you how a significant proportion of Muslims in Britain are actively working to destroy the country they are supposed to call 'home'..... In any case, to get to the point, there is NO PLACE for racial OR religious abuse in Football or anywhere else, so I am NOT in favour of that - but we DO need to weed out the rotten apples in our society who mean us harm - and that applies whether they are white, black, or pink with purple spots. Everyone should receive the same punishment for violent crimes, regardless of their race or religion,and we should be FREE TO DEPORT criminals where they have a different country of birth. In Australia, they recently deported a British paedophile back to the UK, even though he had lived in WA for 30 years - he did the crime so he was out, and that is how it should be - NO EXCEPTIONS.

Yeah that was a special game, probably only time I ever thought Jinky Smith was really effective. He only got a game as Terry Hibbitt went off injured I believe. The game Yorkie-Geordie is thinking about was the Bolton cup game in 76. personal fave must have been the semi final against Burnley at Hillsborough but many stood out in those days as the atmosphere was much better than now as you had most folk standing. And well packed together too. Yes, remember all these well - the atmosphere at Hillsborough for the 74 semi with Burnley was incredible. Also, the 4-3 win against Derby Co(who were chasing the title that year)end/Jan 76 was amazing - we were on the way to Wembley after beating Spurs 3-1 at SJP in LC semi and the team had started scoring for fun - we got into a 3-1 lead through a Tommy Craig Pen, then they came back & equalised with about 5 mins to go.We thought it was over, but no - we got a corner in the last minute, and Supermac beat their offside attempt to score with a header. There was nearly 50,000 in and we all went berserk(no seats exec West Stand in those days) .We were still jumping like dervishes when the ref blew for time. Charlie George(formerly Arsenal)was playing for Derby, and I'll never forget the look on his face at the end!

Micah Richards did. I'll reiterate. Taylor is decent. Not the top class centre half people seem intent on assuming he will be. The likes of Woodgate and Ferdinand were way better at his age, as is Richards. I have no problem with the lad. I think he will do well if he gets his head sorted out and realises he needs to concentrate on himself rather than try to be captain courageous. He's fine, just not as good as those mentioned here at comparable ages. Richards doesnt seem to have been affected too greatly by life with mediocre centre halfs and a revolving managers door either. Micah Richards has broken in at right back, where England are particularly weak, and moved inside during a friendly. He's a long way off ever being a first choice centre back for England. In recent years it's been the hardest position in the England team to break into, when a top class defender like Carragher has no hope of being a regular then you can hardly blame Taylor. I do agree Richards is better than Taylor, but I think Micah Richards will go on to be a world class player. I would also add that not all players progress at the same time, Drogba was still playing for Guingamp at the age of 25, and central defence is generally a position suited to older players. I don't think Taylor will be world class but I think he's growing into a very good Premiership defender. I also think it's important to have some home grown players in your side, all of the most successful sides in Europe have home grown players, Man Utd throughout the 90s, Maldini at Milan, Casillas and Raul at Real Madrid, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi at Barcelona, Carragher and Gerrard at Liverpool, Terry at Chelsea, and so on. If we put Taylor on the market I think we'd have no shortage of takers, but it'd be a big mistake. There's a good chance he'll hit his peak around 2015, think about that. I have seen very little to suggest he is growing into a very good Premiership defender. I would suggest that he has done enough to suggest he could be a good Premiership defender. Of course there are players who develop late: Waddle, Beardsley, Wright and even John Robertson. However, generally International players have a steady rise. For every Waddle I'll give you a Roy Keane, Ryan Giggs, Wayne Rooney or Michael Owen. It's tenuous at best. I wouldn't be upset if he went, however, I'd prefer he stayed. One things certain, Richards is a country mile better. He is also younger, played with average players and different managers. The point being that we do tend to cling to hope rather know for certain that we have a player on our hands. With the likes of Richards, there is no doubt. I tend to agree with this view - Taylor is at an age when he should be at least 75% of the finished article - the other 25% comes with experience, esp in a central defender. I was quite shocked at how easily Taylor was caught by Mido on Sunday and he doesn't have the necessary turn of speed(demonstrated by Capaca when he came on), OR the comfort on the ball that Rozenhal has - these are things that should already be there at his age. We are not in a postion to sell him, though, because of the injury situation AND unless/until there is a better player younger than the ones we already have, to take his place. People using his age as a defence are probably the ones who use the same arguments to defend Martins, and the same issues apply to Martins as they do to Taylor, i.e. the basics should already be there. Beardsley was 22 when he came to Newcastle, and his talent was there for all to see ; he did get a bit more cunning as he got older, but he was a great player at 22 - you cannot say this about either Taylor or Martins, and many fans also make excuses for Taylor because he is a Geordie - that cannot be allowed to enter the equation, as much as we'd like it to.

Everyone on here going on about 'Racism' should remember one thing - Islam is NOT a race ; its a religion. Did anyone at the game hear our fans chanting that Mido was black etc.? If not, then racism doesn't come into it at all.. Also, that idiotic airhead who claims to be a 'Sports reporter' for the most bigoted newspaper in the Western World should remember that not all terrorists are Islamic, but 40% of the British Islamic population want SHARIA LAW brought into the UK..its no wonder people become suspicious about these things. Anything to rubbish the West, despite it giving reporters the freedom to say what they like - something which would NOT happen in Saudi or Iran etc...

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,2156856,00.html What a load of balls They were the only players he had. Guardian is a s**** paper like. Spot on - its a rubbish paper, read by would-be Commies who are really Champagne Socialists. The Mido thing is right up their street - they were probably secretly clapping their hands when the 9/11 atrocity happened.