Ronaldo

Not sure why you've quoted that post. Lampard wasn't our penalty taker in 2004. Barry Lennon Lampard Gerrard Cole Rooney

How many weren't pens? Why would they be pens?

He plays for Chelsea, the team is absolutely full of stars. Gerrard, fair point.

Typical elitist rubbish. He's bought very well with very limited funds.

can you quantify that Dave? Do you mean statistically? I can't be bothered to look it up to be perfectly honest, I just feel far more let down by Gerrard over the years considering what he has done for Liverpool in the same timeframe. Gerrard was worldclass against Germany 5-1. Apart from that neither Gerrard & Lampard have really done anything of note for me. Short memory. Lampard was easily the driving force behind WC 06 qualification. Not to mention his excellent performances in Euro 04. and when the major tournament games came around? Read it again, Shakespeare.

can you quantify that Dave? Do you mean statistically? I can't be bothered to look it up to be perfectly honest, I just feel far more let down by Gerrard over the years considering what he has done for Liverpool in the same timeframe. well i'm the same but the other way, FL has scored 20+ goals in the PL for 5 seasons running 5 seasons he couldn't hit a 10 yard pass against the states domestic and international football are 2 different things In what way?

can you quantify that Dave? Do you mean statistically? I can't be bothered to look it up to be perfectly honest, I just feel far more let down by Gerrard over the years considering what he has done for Liverpool in the same timeframe. Gerrard was worldclass against Germany 5-1. Apart from that neither Gerrard & Lampard have really done anything of note for me. Short memory. Lampard was easily the driving force behind WC 06 qualification. Not to mention his excellent performances in Euro 04.

I'll call shenanigans on Lampard then, probably Terry too. Cappello, who has won almost everything in the game of football, can't make Lampard work at International level neither could all of the other previous managers...so it's them is it? And not Frank. It's only Steve Mac and Capello who've failed. Lampard scored and created a lot under Sven. In which major tournaments? 1 out of 2. when did he perform? what games did he run and win for us? i know we've been here before but he doesn't have the right stuff for international football ( as an Englishman) no matter how much you try to say he does He doesn't have the right stuff for Algeria and USA but consistently gets more goals and assists than anyone from midfield in the world's best league? It's utter tripe, man. Give him the freedom to play higher up the park and he'll excel. gah! you've actually just said "the worlds best league", and meant it wow ok...so what excuses him then? seriously 'cause he can't pass or score or even be dangerous...it truly eludes me what he offers when not playing for chelsea, and that goes for Terry too. Now you're taking the piss. Show me a better English CB than Terry who isn't Rio Ferdinand.

:thup:

I'll call shenanigans on Lampard then, probably Terry too. Cappello, who has won almost everything in the game of football, can't make Lampard work at International level neither could all of the other previous managers...so it's them is it? And not Frank. It's only Steve Mac and Capello who've failed. Lampard scored and created a lot under Sven. In which major tournaments? 1 out of 2. when did he perform? what games did he run and win for us? i know we've been here before but he doesn't have the right stuff for international football ( as an Englishman) no matter how much you try to say he does He doesn't have the right stuff for Algeria and USA but consistently gets more goals and assists than anyone from midfield in the world's best league? It's utter tripe, man. Give him the freedom to play higher up the park and he'll excel.

I'll call shenanigans on Lampard then, probably Terry too. Cappello, who has won almost everything in the game of football, can't make Lampard work at International level neither could all of the other previous managers...so it's them is it? And not Frank. It's only Steve Mac and Capello who've failed. Lampard scored and created a lot under Sven. In which major tournaments? 1 out of 2.

I'll call shenanigans on Lampard then, probably Terry too. Cappello, who has won almost everything in the game of football, can't make Lampard work at International level neither could all of the other previous managers...so it's them is it? And not Frank. It's only Steve Mac and Capello who've failed. Lampard scored and created a lot under Sven.

A shit international defender who's let England down on the pitch how many times?

Anyone can surely see how good those players are. If Capello can't make a team out of them, he's failed and deserves the sack.

Yep. The commentary on our games with Ipswich and Sheff Wed (a) was worse than owt i'd ever heard before. Constantly praising Butt for losing the ball then chasing after it.

Nice backtrack. There was no backtrack, read the first post, I used the words 'just about'. Honestly, get a fucking life.

Nice edit. Drogba, Terry, Cole and Essien would be in your team, no?

When I said 'world Xl' I meant (just about) any existing team in the world, mate. Perhaps I should have just said that. For a 'fantasy Xl' - ie the best team I could dream up, i'd go with this: Julio Cesar Maicon Lucio Terry Cole Xavi Essien Lampard Ronaldo Drogba Messi Hope this eliminates confusion.

If we were talking about a world Xl, I'd personally pick Terry, Cole and Lampard without much hesitation and Rooney would certainly make the bench.

I would too, but that's a fantasy Xl. What I was trying to get at, was just about every club would be interested in signing and starting those 5. That's moved the goalposts a little tbh. Lampard & Gerrard > Xavi, Iniesta or Essien? Not sure what we're going for here. I didn't say that though, mate. In my original post I said "all but the very best teams." Madrid would take Lampard or Gerrard in an eyeblink, imo.

I would too, but that's a fantasy Xl. What I was trying to get at, was just about every club would be interested in signing and starting those 5.

Terry, Ashley Cole, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney would make all but the very best teams, imo.

Painters and decorators who made the QFs in the last 3 tournaments they qualified for. Not to mention the fact that 5 or 6 of them would get into just about any first Xl in world football. You don't get to be that good by looking for tea breaks.

Routledge is certainly more effective, but I don't think he would have been nearly as effective without Jonas in the side. Jonas ties up a big part of the opposition when he goes forward, and that gives Routledge the space he needs. Both are very important to the team, but it is hard to compare them using stats (assists, goals). I agree Jonas needs to be more effective if he is going to be an asset in the prem though. Especially when our other midfielders (bar Routledge) don't have goals in them. Thing is with Routledge, he'll beat his man and then whip a ball in without even thinking about it (or looking, half the time). It's very refreshing to see a winger of ours with that sort of confidence in his ability. Jonas on the other hand always wants that extra second, and you just can't afford it most of the time in this country. But I do appreciate what he gives us in a transitional sense.

Bobby didn't tell the senior players to f*** off when they approached him in 1990 and as a result they very nearly went all the way. If thing's aren't working, a touch of two-way communication is always positive. Thing is, true autocrats rarely work as football managers. Ferguson is an obvious exception but then even he seems to have respect for his senior players and i'd imagine will invite opinions from time to time.