Lotus

Remember watching France vs Brazil in the 2006 World Cup. Ronaldinho vs Zidane. Ronaldinho kept trying to dazzle with individual skillz. Zidane just bossed THE GAME. Zizou gave him a total lesson in how to raise a team to level above. Not that i think Ronaldinho noticed tbh. Was too self absorbed.

We really, really need a good, commanding CB. Someone like Shawcross.

There are 10 other players whose only job is to run without the ball and then give it to Messi when they eventually get it. Wow. What an incredibly dim view of modern football.

I don't know how anyone can defend what they saw yesterday. You're biased because of your opinions on him from his better performances. The wonderful performances he's given in the past show he can do it but, yesterday he offered next to nothing. Simple as. Shame because i wanted Argentina to win it and had tipped them before the tournament. There's no justification for his no show yesterday unless he was injured. And as he made 2 sprints i presume he wasn't. He may have been totally knackered. I'm sure quite a few players were.

And he's produced f*** all at the WC Guess they've got that in common then. Imagine Rooney's mindset if he reached a WC final. Even if he wasn't having the best of days with the ball, at least he'd try and help out his team mates. At least he'd try and make a contribution. Klose is what? 10 years older than Messi? Played like he wanted it though. Didn't get a chance to score but still made himself useful. Offered something.

CRonaldo ambles about while his team mates scramble and try to get the ball back and everyone calls him a lazy, self absorbed prima donna. Messi does it. Conserving energy. For what? He did f**k all! I love the bloke, awesome player. Never tried yesterday. Didn't even try. Imagine that.....WC final and didn't even try. Sad stuff imo.

Which 'normal'

Also, being a forward never stopped very talented players like Rooney actually putting the effort in.

Why? they play completely different roles. Mashcherano's effectiveness depends on him grafting and flying around the pitch. Effort = effectiveness. They wouldn't even have been there had it not been for Messi. He never bothered his arse. If he had, he might have made a difference. Once in a life time opportunity and he was less active than Shola.

Didn't look like he wanted to win the WC to me. Just ambled about the pitch. Never closed anyone down. Rarely showed for the ball. Just didn't contribute. Contrast that to the effort Mascherano put in.

Same old problems then.

We'll need commanding CB to have anything resembling a decent season.

Yesterday was the biggest game of his life. Might be his only chance to play in a WC final and he was a passenger for over 110 minutes of it. Never showed up.

If Feyenoord insist on wanting nearly £9M for him i can quite rightly see us looking elsewhere tbh.

Can't see them ever challenging with Giroud.

Thought Mascherano was absolutely class last night. Was Argentina's best player. Dunno if Messi was injured but he was a complete passenger. Walking about while his team mates closed Holland down. Wouldn't mind if he was saving his legs for something special but he just did nothing.

That's fine as far as speculation goes, all we can really judge him on though is how he uses the players he's got. Carr's signings aren't really suited to playing defensive football with one isolated forward, and Pardew prefers Obertan and Gosling to Marveaux and Ben Arfa. Ashley could always try backing Pardew's judgement and give him players he does trust, but then he'll be going head to head with Pulis and Hughes and they can probably do that job better. Just trying to bring something different to the thread. NPW

If we're honest, he's a professional so he must see and understand these points. It seems that he feels the risks of playing a more possession type football and pushing more midfielders into advanced positions outweighs the benefits. That might not mean he doesn't believe in them in principle, it might be that he just doesn't trust the players he has. I imagine if you sat down and watched a game of football with him he would have a fair few insightful POVs regarding tactics, strategies, players good and bad habits, etc. I think though that, if has a decent degree of perception (and i'm sure he must) it gets clouded prettily heavily when he's the one who is ultimately responsible for the decisions, i.e. the manager. He might make a good assistant manager. I just don't think he has the granite in him to manage a high level football team (by that i mean Prem division). Kind of like the guy who's full of good ideas when watching someone else play chess, can see the openings, see the potential threats, but when it's him in the chair he gets a bit clammy, then fixates on something ultimately not proving very relevant while losing the bigger picture.

I'll guess at Will Hughes.

"I'll never go hungry again!"

When you listen to the England players it's all about working hard, leave everything on the pitch, putting in a good shift, etc. We just don't out think teams. There doesn't seem to be much on the field intelligence. Working out how to pull a team around to create space in difficult areas. We're not a cerebral bunch when it comes to football

There has been really quite a few excellent Prem division forwards who never really did it at the Int'l tournaments. Rooney is in that catergory. Certainly NOT one of the 1st names on the England team sheet imo. Defence i agree with on the whole. Could see Jagielka's place under threat from a couple of CBs tbh.

Wouldn't get upset if the press links us with these players. It's as likely as there agents just trying to drum up some interest or hope for a better deal from their current club.

Odd thing to think seeing as it's been contrary to all evidence.