mrmojorisin75

I don't think anyone's said it was an extra £40m have they? Of course you have to filter in the increased wages of the expensive new players your bringing in too. The table just shows that there is a lot more money floating about, but we seem to be decreasing the amount we spend in transfers and wages. I like how you picked a promoted team - the only one to stay up - who finished only 4 points below us as an example of a team which spent money poorly. You could just as easily take the spending of Man City, Pompey, Everton or Spurs over the last few years to show what spending a bit of cash can do for you (almost immediately in City's case - did no-one tell them they've got to take 4-5 years?). I'll get a "LOL Spuds only finished 2 places above us!!!!" in before anyone else, but they'll be a lot more than 2 places above us next season if we go into the season with anything like the midfield & attack we have now, I'll put money on that. It's not a case of spend big one season and hey presto instant success (although it can happen), but if you let the spending drop below other's over a number of seasons, unless you have a Wenger type figure finding new talent, your squad is inevitably going to drop further and further behind the other clubs in quality, and it's going to become harder and harder to compete no matter who the manager is. It seems to me like some are happy to believe that Wise & Veterre will be a match for Wenger, and that constitutes a great leap forward in how the club is being run. Maybe they will be, but personally I'd like us to continue to compete in the transfer market and hence hopefully on the pitch until the fruits of their labour are ready to prove themselves.

In 06-07 only two clubs spent more than us and we finished 13th. It's good this game. see my next post dave and try to take it in - it's not about whether we spend MORE than these clubs, it's about whether we spend what we need to spend to at least keep up with them, in fact lets change that to CATCH them first then we'll have to start thinking about keeping up with them the period you refer to is universally accepted as one of turmoil and shit managers so the point is moot in my eyes anyway if you think, what, 12m net spend so far under ashley is OK then so be it I honestly don't care what we spend as long as we get the players we require. Simple as that. So the facts and figures don't really bother me. Sure the elite players cost megabucks but right now we just can't attract them anyway. We need to show that we're going in the right direction to do that, and after the latter years you refer to I'm afraid we simply don't. I'm sounding like a broken record here but last year no-one gave a shite that the net spend was only £8m. They were pretty much universally pleased that the positions we needed covering were, with generally good players. I also still think a manager better than Allardyce (ie Keegan) would have had us top half relatively comfortably with that spend and that squad. The likes of Villa, Everton and Blackburn have got above us through diligent building of their club and squad over time rather than just firing money here there and everywhere. I admire them for it. seconded on all points; our views don't have to be mutually exclusive i guess...i just don't see how if everyone accepts players are overpriced these days we'll progress without meeting these prices! as for everton & villa they're paying big fees when they need to as pointed out earlier but building slowly as well...when we're doing the two together i doubt you'll hear many detractors forgot about your 8m bet spend under allardyce point and you're right i was happy enough too, that was before months of dirge, depression and the return of a good manager for the first time since robson - if we're not gonna give KK spends what was it all for? that's what i don't get

B-I-N-G-O slugsy

In 06-07 only two clubs spent more than us and we finished 13th. It's good this game. see my next post dave and try to take it in - it's not about whether we spend MORE than these clubs, it's about whether we spend what we need to spend to at least keep up with them, in fact lets change that to CATCH them first then we'll have to start thinking about keeping up with them the period you refer to is universally accepted as one of turmoil and shit managers so the point is moot in my eyes anyway if you think, what, 12m net spend so far under ashley is OK then so be it

but we have went out to spend big, and look where that got us, a player injured for 2 seasons and another that didn't play fuck me fuck me fuck me fuck me fuck me fuck meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee READ posts please - we're just talking about the club spending an amount that is in line with a one of our size & stature and an amount that will see us at least attempt to significantly improve a depleted, talent starved squad i don't get why it's all or nothing with you guys, i just don't...i'm criticising ashleys investment to date therefore i must be demanding we sign another cripple for 17m? not at all, i applaud the spiderman deal and have said in the past if we could secure 4 more of them then i'd be delighted but that's a virtual impossibility isn't it? so if we want more players to IMPROVE the team we're gonna have to pay for them, like the clubs named in the table from UV are doing

interesting how you read that table dave 'cause i see man city, pompey, spurs, liverpool, manu, everton as all having invested more in their squads last year and they all have better teams and higher league finishes (of course you can't judge everything on one seasons spend but it's not coincidental) villa are the exceptions there spend wise but then i'm not sure what they're doing these days, and blackburn of course built their team over time but i expect them to go to shit this season all of the aforementioned clubs (not villa/blackburn) presently look like outspending us and started with better & bigger squads seeing it yet?

dave do you really need this explaining? a club our size has much bigger income from ST sales, shirt sales, corporates & sponsorships etc... than the fulhams of this world therefore the 30-50m they receive needs to be used to mask the defecit, with us it does not - we've got the 5th biggest turnover in the league haven't we? are we 5th biggest spenders in the last year? are we fuck as other people say the club doesn't need to be 100% debt free, it just doesn't have to be riddled with it to the point of being totally fucked again i'll ask for a straight answer from you or anyone else; lets say TV money is 40m a season - that means "ashley" will get 80m for last season and this one coming regardless of when it's paid... why are you accepting this money not being reinvested in the playing squad? or if not that money then the ST money, or sponsorship money? or any money? are you saying to me the club has to be self sufficient from the moment ashley bought it? why? why couldn't he invest some of the money based on future guaranteed income (the TV deal is over a fixed period so they know what they're getting and for how long)? we're not talking 100m here dave but what's been invested in the last year is a fucking joke and you know it is I've no idea why that money isn't going straight back into transfers. Perhaps it's gone directly towards our monstrously huge wage bill (which WAS fifth highest in the league from what I remember the last reports saying). It's a fair question, but if it's that simple, why hasn't every other Premier League club spent £80m on transfers in that last two years? What are they doing with it? There must be a reason why hardly anyone has used this amazing new 'free' revenue directly on transfers. As I keep pointing out though, NOBODY was complaining at the net spend on September 1st 2007. Nobody. Personally I'm glad they didn't give that useless twat Allardyce any more money than they did. If only we'd bought Gutierrez the normal way. as i said dave, presumably clubs like fulham or middlesbrough (examples only) have to pay high wages as well but they don't have anything like the external or internal income we have to back this up think about it: liverpool HAVE spent a fortune, so have man u, forget chelski, arsenal have still spent while having their stadium debt to deal with NE5's point stands - these are the clubs you need to be comparing us with in a sense, but lets drop down a tier and compare our signings with those of man city, pompey, everton, spurs...they're all spending to the level i'm talking about here dave (11m on crouch, 9m defoe, 11m yakubu, 16m moutinho?, and you know all about spurs) it doesn't add up unless you're suggesting we're smaller than these clubs and should be down with the likes of the mackems (who look like they're gonna outspend) and hull or whoever as for your spiderman point why can it only be one way? noones saying that's not a good deal but if it turns out to be the ONLY deal of any significance then it's not good enough is it?

Aye, boring every fucker to death with relentless moaning will definitely help us to get the players we need. nothing of worth to contribute to a discussion on discussion forum i see... what's your other favourite passtime, going to a brothel with chronic impotence?

check the article in the independent, some bloke called Dave from NO (!) spitting his chips out - not going back til bartons gone after having a season ticket since the dawn of time! cracked me up - Dave it's not you is it?

a real defence is the midfield and defence both functioning well tbh. During Keegan's 2nd spell here we has a cracking midfield, didn't do the defence much good. We need 2 defenders, 2 midfielders and a striker you're right, we ain't getting them though are we?! well, i can certainly see us bringing in 2 defenders before sep 1st, the rest we'll have to pray for. But if we leave our midfield and attack the way it is, we're in for a long, hard season filled with 'injury crisis' excuses yup, hard to disagree with that

a real defence is the midfield and defence both functioning well tbh. During Keegan's 2nd spell here we has a cracking midfield, didn't do the defence much good. We need 2 defenders, 2 midfielders and a striker you're right, we ain't getting them though are we?!

so which is it then 'cause i'm confused now: there is money but deals are hard & players are overpriced or there is no money?

interesting take on things there - would any NUFC fan honestly keep this guy if we could get our fee back and him off the wage? can't see it myself so i'm not sure how we've shown faith in him

bit ott like but agree about the midfield

dave do you really need this explaining? a club our size has much bigger income from ST sales, shirt sales, corporates & sponsorships etc... than the fulhams of this world therefore the 30-50m they receive needs to be used to mask the defecit, with us it does not - we've got the 5th biggest turnover in the league haven't we? are we 5th biggest spenders in the last year? are we fuck as other people say the club doesn't need to be 100% debt free, it just doesn't have to be riddled with it to the point of being totally fucked again i'll ask for a straight answer from you or anyone else; lets say TV money is 40m a season - that means "ashley" will get 80m for last season and this one coming regardless of when it's paid... why are you accepting this money not being reinvested in the playing squad? or if not that money then the ST money, or sponsorship money? or any money? are you saying to me the club has to be self sufficient from the moment ashley bought it? why? why couldn't he invest some of the money based on future guaranteed income (the TV deal is over a fixed period so they know what they're getting and for how long)? we're not talking 100m here dave but what's been invested in the last year is a fucking joke and you know it is

despite my "pessimists are never disappointed" attitude to this transfer window i guess secretly i've been holding out subconscious hope ashley will stick two fingers up to everyone and bring in the players we NEED KK's comments the other day about making up for quality & quantity in the squad by being the fittest team in the league was like a sucker punch to the kidneys to be honest suggests to me if we are signing anyone it'll be limited, i.e. a coloccini & a warnock and that'll be it...i now hold out virtually no hope of seeing a good midfielder or new striker arrive at the club, long season coming boys and girls

irritable as f*** the day it would seem! (me) anyway back to topic; we're both looking at the same situation and reading it different ways...i refuse to believe that we haven't identified an available player we want in the 6-7 months since kk & wise etc... arrived at the club assuming we have we're either not willing to pay the fees/wages being quoted or are in the middle of a giant transfer logjam that once one deal goes through they'll all start (seems to be convential wisdom at the moment that one) the former is the more likely to me personally, that's it really There is another possibility - the involvement of Wise, Jimenez and Vetere in the club's transfer structure isn't working. well, yeah, guess so...but then as yorkie says i know nothing about that so i can't comment apparently (kidding yorkie)

could not agree more imo liverpool simply need another good striker, which it looks like they'll get, but also some genuine quality/pace/goals from out wide benayoun/kuyt and whatever other shite they stick out there should be nowhere near a challenging team...but then benitez plays a narrow game i suppose

irritable as fuck the day it would seem! (me) anyway back to topic; we're both looking at the same situation and reading it different ways...i refuse to believe that we haven't identified an available player we want in the 6-7 months since kk & wise etc... arrived at the club assuming we have we're either not willing to pay the fees/wages being quoted or are in the middle of a giant transfer logjam that once one deal goes through they'll all start (seems to be convential wisdom at the moment that one) the former is the more likely to me personally, that's it really

sand in my vagina to be honest

oh for fucks sake

haven't read past this yet but i have to clarify that you're saying the time to ask questions and point fingers is when nothing whatsoever can be done about it? is that what you're saying? that if we start the season with another severly depleted squad in terms of personnel & talent - THAT is the time to ask questions? you can see that makes no sense right i'm not saying that people like me offering opinions on this website could influence events or anything but people like you weren't willing to ask questions prior to the euros, now it's prior to the close of the window...how much grace does this guy get for buying "evil freddie" out? do we wait january out too if he still doesn't fancy paying the asking price for good players? [i'm convinced this is what is going on by the way, behind the scenes, and no i have no 'evidence'] happy i'm not on death row and you lot were representing me, you'd wait til the lethal injection kicked in before opening the file to see if i was guilty Well there you go, then. We haven't got the first clue what's going on, and me making an 'asking questions' thread isn't going to make a blind bit of difference as to whether or not they change their (unknown) policies. If you've got your mind made up, purely through the agenda of certain newspapers and a generally slow transfer window, then you go for it. That's where you and i differ, and that's why our thought processes about it are different. You might think you're in a position to judge, but you're bloody well not; which is why i say wait and see what's gone wrong (if anything) at a more appropriate date than this. rant time: what the fuck are you doing on a football discussion forum? what do they exist for if having an opinion about something is considered bad? please help me out on that one...what are we supposed to do? according to the high and mighty crowd you're in we can't believe a word the papers say (nothing to discuss there then), we can't criticise the club for a lack of transfer activity (nothing to discuss) & we cant have a view about ashley after one year in charge (nothing to discuss) what's this leave us? the next upcoming friendly? design of the shirt? other clubs shirts? what? get a fucking grip - if you've ever actually read any of my posts you'll know i don't have a fixed view on the club at the moment but anyone with common sense should be worried right now; i'm more than willing to worship at the church of ashley but he's got some convincing to do nothing, i repeat nothing, would give me greater pleasure than to see us sign collocini, then follow that up with another three quality players so i could shut the fuck up, but until that happens i'll continue with my criticisms as i would of FS someone said it in another thread the bullshit being spouted on here is the same bullshit spouted every year and no-one ever learns - you say i believe i'm in a position to judge but i say you're equally as gullible to the press/media drivel that's spouted...i trust you're a "deals aren't that easy" merchant? why not? why do you believe they're hard? because quotes in the papers tell you they are unless you have some inside knowledge? do fill me in... from my position as football fan i see that deals where the buying club is going to match the price/wage become very easy, deals where someone is looking for a bargain appear very hard...i was no rocket scientist so you do the math we've got money (TV if nothing else), we need players more than most clubs...what's the big deal? asked the question before but 30-40m TV money we get from sky, you think it's that hard to spend it on players do you? reeeeeeeeeeally?

talent ? nah we've bought so called talent before and its fallen flat on its arse, lets go for novelty spiderpig, this hairy fella, maybe we can get that mexican keeper from the 90's with the luminous strips to come out of retirement?

haven't read past this yet but i have to clarify that you're saying the time to ask questions and point fingers is when nothing whatsoever can be done about it? is that what you're saying? that if we start the season with another severly depleted squad in terms of personnel & talent - THAT is the time to ask questions? you can see that makes no sense right i'm not saying that people like me offering opinions on this website could influence events or anything but people like you weren't willing to ask questions prior to the euros, now it's prior to the close of the window...how much grace does this guy get for buying "evil freddie" out? do we wait january out too if he still doesn't fancy paying the asking price for good players? [i'm convinced this is what is going on by the way, behind the scenes, and no i have no 'evidence'] happy i'm not on death row and you lot were representing me, you'd wait til the lethal injection kicked in before opening the file to see if i was guilty

without a shadow of doubt the best analysis so far with the addendum that we're headed towards taking the place of the aforementioned clubs and punching below our weight, we'd better be careful 'cause look how long it took them to drag themselves back Spurs, Everton and Villa ? ALL THREE of those clubs have had genuine real trophy winning success in the last 40 years since we did anything at all, and ALL THREE of those clubs were above us for the vast majority of this time. Its only recent history which has seen us get above those clubs for most of the time. I like some of your posts mate, but you have this the wrong way round I'm afraid. i presume the OP is referring to our time in the EPL NE5, and not the preceding 40 years as during that time we were puching well below our weight obviously so looking at the EPL time period i tend to agree with Opt Nuts analysis - we were puching our weight when we challenged for the title, got to the FA cup/Champs League etc... but not above it during that time the clubs you mention were puching well below their weight, all three being involved in relegation battles at some point more than once...now they're puching their weight in the EPL which ONpt Nut even refers to in his post i'm not sure what you're disagreeing with here mate, under the hall/shepherd tenures we dragged ourselves up to where we should rightfully be and then it started to slip away...it continues to do so under the new owner whilst around us clubs who could claim an equally if not better history than us are finally dragging themselves from the doldrums they were in... The point I'm making, is that we got above those clubs by our own efforts, and we are now below them - again - for the same reason, this is relative to the title "punching our weight". If that explains it differently, I think this is better phrased. I don't accept those 3 clubs are bigger than us, because they are not. still not really sure what you're trying to say dude, of course they're not bigger than us nor did i say they were...they all are, however, bigger clubs than their performance during the EPL period suggests when they were indeed puching below their weight the title was about puching ABOVE our weight not just puching our weight, which i said we haven't been think this is a case of two people saying the same thing different ways