mrmojorisin75

22 years old and we'd have been relegated without him last season...has pace, strength and is direct, can shoot with both feet and seems to have very few fitness problems we've just taken on a new manager who is famed for improving players' games and his tactical awareness given all that where is the sense in selling martins, who should be more settled into his lifestyle, the area and the league to replace him with someone who might not be? furthermore there was a point last season when berbatov and martins were neck and neck in the goals chart and we were strongly disputing who was the better buy...martins tailed off badly towards the end of the season and berbatov excelled (let's not forget berbatov hardly started the season on fire!!) but you can't take out of the equation the gulf in quality bewteen the 2 teams how about not panic selling, giving the lad a full season with a better manager and what should be a better team? if his all round game is still found wanting and he's not looking good enough then great move him on, there's no sense in doing it now unless we're getting double the money

one point worth considering is this: pre-ashley the very thought of the existence of an owen clause and that it might be exercised would have been a borderline catastrophe for the club, financially and in terms of morale generally around the club (think back to the end of the season and how depressed everyone was about the future, and that was with owen STAYING!!) now, regardless of anything else we know one thing; that ashley can afford to take a 6m hit on the owen money and also splash out on an equivalent replacement should owen go with that in mind i say fuck owen, let him run back to his liverpool slums and sit on benitez's bench 'cause lets face it i'd think the only reason anyone would gamble on his fitness/form right now would be liverpool 'cause of the romance factor

He didnt do much with Liverpool who had better players and resources than weve got and hes already started to dismantle Lyon. I'd rather have Big Sam. jackpot - you win a fiver his liverpool team were a horrible disgrace who had one good season that ended a success largely due to the crazy goalscoring exploits of wee mickey owen when he was unstoppable the rest of the team were pish and played that way

Maybe Roeder didn't have that kind of money to spend. Maybe Newcastle would have fared much better this season isf he had been given that sort of money to spend. Of course, it may have been that Macbeth was right and there wasn't that sort of money available to spend in the first place. all good points, no arguments from me on that score you'd have to hope that as a man he had enough integrity to not be sitting there talking about signing players when he knew all along there was nothing to spend... there are some here who'd argue he didn't and i just don't know - i DO have the nagging feeling he was enough of a yes man for shepherd to perhaps do it, but who can be sure?

not if the new manager has ever watched us, or indeed any top flight football, ever. ha ha ha, agreed - stevie fucken wonder can see they're all shite

i'd still prefer that lad from sevilla like, total commitment to attacking football above anything else failing him then why not allardyce, aye

one thing that strikes me at this point is that his unwillingness to spend money when he wasn't sure it was for the best has proven to be a massive boost for the club we might never have recovered if he'd spent another 10-15m on tripe in january and then seen him sacked now as it is he's left us a legacy of martins (top class, young, valuable) and duff (who might have it in him to improve and if not we should get most/all of the fee back for him) his legacy is also to have made it apparent that the likes of shambles/moore/baba/carr/dyer perhaps must finally be run out of the club as they don't deserve any more chances he's also presided over the rehabilitation of michael owen that will hopefully see us in better stead next season

So you believe that we can bring in eight defenders in the summer or are you happy with Ramage? here we go again. right, i'll try again- the fact that Ramage is not good enough does NOT somehow make Shambles good enough. not in any way shape or form. shambles lack of ability is not caused by, linked to or mitigated by Ramage being rubbish as well. as a matter of urgency we need a left back and centre back. preferably two centres, and a right back as well. but don't tell me we should keep a player who is NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIS DIVISION , just because a backup player is also not good enough. cos thats the kind of pathetic w*** that keeps s*** like carr, baba, moore and ameobi here. one thing we DO need is a manager with the balls to actually do something about this situation eh? you're right that shambles, moore, ramage are not good enough and i'd add to that dyer, luque, ameobi (perhaps), sib, carr, baba i'd like, for once, someone to come in as a manager and just say "you're fucken out son, not good enough, i don't need anymore time to assess you as i've watched you play like s**** for the last 5 years"...get rid of the lot of them then start rebuilding enough of this piecemeal s*** You are completely and utterly missing the point ! I could write it in capitals maybe that will help ? WE HAVE NOT GOT ENOUGH PLAYERS TO COPE WITH THE LEVEL OF INJURIES WE ALWAYS GET. WE HAVE TO KEEP SOME OF THE NOT GOOD ENOUGH PLAYERS AS OUR SQUAD IS TOO SMALL AS IT IS. WE ARE NOT CHELSEA, WE HAVE TO HAVE BACK UP PLAYERS THAT AREN`T PREMIERSHIP STARS. WHAT PLANET ARE YOU LIVING ON THINKING WE CAN BRING IN ENOUGH NEW PLAYERS IN ONE TRANSFER WINDOW TO REPLACE AND ADD TOO THE PLAYERS PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT GITTING RID OF. My point is Bramble is the best of the worst that aren`t leaving anyway. Why keep Ramage if Bramble would be happy with a new squad player contract. Don`t come back with he is s**** as we all know this and that isn`t answering the question. Simple would you rather keep Ramage or Bramble ? One other question, do you think in one window we can replace and add to the following with better players Moore Bramble Carr Baba Gooch Luque Edgar - Loan Zoggy - If he goes like it seems Dyer - If he goes like people want Ameobi - People want out Sibierski - People want out Parker - Not good enough according to alot on here Emre - Supposedly going Even replacing the top 9 listed above and adding to our small squad is near impossible. are you supposed to be addressing me? to answer your question bramble or ramage, then bramble, agreed as for your list of players i'll do the following without too much forthought: Moore - get ben haim on a free Bramble - get Distin on a free Carr - sign replacement, lets say 5m max for a competent player Baba - sign replacement, lets say 5m max for a competent player Gooch - replaced by huntington in the squad Luque - doesn't exist anyway but let's say give lua lua/troisi a shout Edgar - don't fucken loan him out, man, new manager remember Zoggy - don't let him leave, new manager remember Dyer - we'd get some type of fee and a huge boost to the wage bill Ameobi - replace with carroll, although i wouldn't let him go Sibierski - meh, either way who cares, stay or go he's cheap Parker - would command 5m+ fee and replaced by sidwell free anyhow Emre - would command 5m+ fee to sign replacement so without much thought we've signed 2 good CB's for nothing other than wages and signing on fees and lost 2 that weren't good enough signed sidwell for nowt and raked in 5m+ for parker sold emre for 5m+ and used the money to sign a replacement spent 10m max on 2 good fullbacks then we've put some faith in youth about the squad net spend 5m - it's impossible is it? spend another 10m and you could add 2 good attacking players to that all total bollocks like but don't tell me anything is impossible

Won f*** all with England like. Not helped by the fact the players aren't very good. If that is the case then maybe this is not the job for him took the words out of my mouth

i just think it's more a general momentum thing rather than anyone believing they're gonna be challenging for europe the new chairman, quinn, has obviously looked at how murray lost the fans and has made every effort to win them over luckily for him keane, with no little cash, has promoted them beyond everyone's expectations and is making the right noises as a manager - if you listen to what he actually says post match he's a VERY astute guy and can play the media well, something i didn't see coming all combined tells me that off the pitch, at the very least they're gonna be more than a match for us in terms of PR etc... and anything they acheive with regards to getting a result against us or staying up will be painted as a david vs goliath victory despite the fact i think they'll spend fairly heavily this time too

The reserves play in the reserves for a reason We play like garbage as the majority of the team isn't good enough, we have about 6 players who if given the choice, would survive my cull of the team. hang on a minute - so one of two things is happening: either the players are ignoring roeders quality coaching and playing badly AGAINST his good advice, or roeder is not coaching them to STOP playing shite as he can't see a problem correct? on count one roeder knows they're ignoring him and should drop them and play the reserves - NONE of whom have disgraced themselves when called upon this season on count two roeder is an idiot who wouldn't know one players ability from the next therefore how can you tell me the reserves are reserves for a reason when they might be better than what's on the pitch each week, but the manager can't see it (when in fact they're actually youth team graduates mostly)? all theoretical bollocks anyhow - roeder ISN'T coaching the players and DOESN'T have the balls to drop the big names either way he's still culpable 100%

N'zogbia in midfield doesn't work. And who would play on the left then? 'cos if Emre was being dropped for his non effectivness and poor play then surley Duff would also? And if he done it your way, he would end up playing the reserves bingo my friend!! the penny has dropped the first team, or a lot of them, are shite and we know they are yet we persist in playing them in the vein hope that somehow they magically stop playing shite kieron dyer has been pointless and ineffectual for years now but he's still walking into the team to no obvious effect you talk like playing the reserves might have a detremental effect on results or quality of play!! we're garbage, play like crap and lose so what harm is gonna come, exactly, of dropping people who either won't listen to the coaches or are not good enough to stop making mistakes and improve their game?

How do you know he's not coaching these aspects out of there game but they aren't taking heed of his words? Yeah it is mainly down to Roeder to remove the poor aspects of a players game, but not everything is up to him like NUFC06 said, the players also have a responsibilty. If I can see that Milner beats his man too many times then surley as a professional he can too? And Bramble has been lambasted enough about his concentration so surley he should have done something about that himself? At the end of the day Roeder could have a team of world class coaches in who are trying to iron out these problems, but it isn't all up to the coach, it's up to the players as well to take it on board (might be a respect issue also, I know if I was being coached by Roeder I would take everything he told me coaching wise with a pinch of salt). And he plays them as they are all we have. If he didn't pick Emre for example then we would have Parker and Butt in midfield... there's always an alternative choice; emre playing shite play n'zogbia; bramble shite play edgar...and so on and so forth as i said if he's coaching them correctly and they ignore him then it's up to him as a manager to drop them until they start to do what he tells them, simple as that....the alternative is to see little shitbags like dyer refuse to play on the wing all bollocks anyhow, patently obvious we're coaching nobody nothing these days either way he's culpable

So what about the likes of Babayaro who play half assed? Or Bramble who doesn't concentrate for longer than a minute? Or Parker who likes to dance around with the ball? Or Emre who likes to give it away more than often enough, or his poor corners? Or Milners frequent need to beat his man 2/3 times before he delivers an often mediocre cross? Yeah Roeder is to blame for alot (you could put blame to him for a lot of the above too). But to say he is to blame for EVERYTHING is barbaric. sorry like but he can held responsible for all those things he's either not coaching them NOT to do the shite they're doing, in which case he should be sacked otherwise he is coaching them correctly and they're ignoring him when they get out on the pitch, in which case he continues to pick them regardless of this fact and thus, should be sacked if he wants to continue to pick players that continually play shite then so be it, he needs to be held accountable...there's always another option...

although i agree in principle strikers generally don't create that many chances for themselves do they? given that we have a midfield and defenders that can do nothing other than hump the ball upfield (exception milner & charlie, but he never plays) what does anyone think a new striker will do with the current level of service they'd get here? we need to get the midfield passing and moving, the wingers going past people and going to the byline, all of which creates space for strikers...a static midfield the likes of what we have now will ruin any striker we sign without doubt nothing is ever as cut and dry as "we need a left back" or "we need a striker" but one of the most important factors in our season has been how poor the midfield has been as a unit in any capacity - they neither offer much of an attacking threat nor provide much support to the defence, so there might well be argument to start looking at them at least next season we know that we should do better with strikers; owen fit, martins settled, ameobi fit, but if we continue aimlessly throwing balls up at them forget it, we could sign samuel etoo in the summer and i doubt things would change much

So you believe that we can bring in eight defenders in the summer or are you happy with Ramage? here we go again. right, i'll try again- the fact that Ramage is not good enough does NOT somehow make Shambles good enough. not in any way shape or form. shambles lack of ability is not caused by, linked to or mitigated by Ramage being rubbish as well. as a matter of urgency we need a left back and centre back. preferably two centres, and a right back as well. but don't tell me we should keep a player who is NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIS DIVISION , just because a backup player is also not good enough. cos thats the kind of pathetic w*** that keeps s*** like carr, baba, moore and ameobi here. one thing we DO need is a manager with the balls to actually do something about this situation eh? you're right that shambles, moore, ramage are not good enough and i'd add to that dyer, luque, ameobi (perhaps), sib, carr, baba i'd like, for once, someone to come in as a manager and just say "you're fucken out son, not good enough, i don't need anymore time to assess you as i've watched you play like shite for the last 5 years"...get rid of the lot of them then start rebuilding enough of this piecemeal shit

who, me? obviously not no but i'm willing to admit my mistake; suppose i wanted to like the guy as much as anything else & hoped he'd turn it around but he just ain't gonna do it plus i was, and still am to a degree, sick to fuck of our seemingly constant merry-go-round of managers and wasted money and wanted to see an end to that

nail on the head mate, spot on...

i'll hold my hands up and say i was in favour of giving him a bit of time but i'm converted, he's a fucken clown one of the things that i thought was in his favour was that he either didn't have cash to spend or didn't want to pish it away on more garbage...thought he was being hung out to dry to a degree by shepherd on transfers be that as it may (or may not be) nothing excuses the utter inability to get a team playing football - it's all too much like souness where the faults for every defeat were nothing to do with him, totally ignoring the fact that it's his job to get the best out of the players available, not piss and moan about the ones missing i mean were would reading/sheff utd etc.. be if all they did was complain about players they didn't have? not in the premier league that's where, and neither will we if this continues get him oooooooooooooooooooot So you've changed your mind in the last few days? last week or so, thought it through aye previously i'd been of the opinion that we'd be better keeping him unless someone top class came available but really, thinking about what i've watched when he's been in charge i just can't justify that any more not sure if he ever had the plot but if he did one things for sure, he's totally lost it...on the pitch, off the pitch, in his head, everywhere...

boils my blood to think a man like that suffers so much, yet a total tw@t like shepherd who humiliated such a gentleman sits happy, healthy and wealthy if there is a god he can fuck right off

i'll hold my hands up and say i was in favour of giving him a bit of time but i'm converted, he's a fucken clown one of the things that i thought was in his favour was that he either didn't have cash to spend or didn't want to pish it away on more garbage...thought he was being hung out to dry to a degree by shepherd on transfers be that as it may (or may not be) nothing excuses the utter inability to get a team playing football - it's all too much like souness where the faults for every defeat were nothing to do with him, totally ignoring the fact that it's his job to get the best out of the players available, not piss and moan about the ones missing i mean were would reading/sheff utd etc.. be if all they did was complain about players they didn't have? not in the premier league that's where, and neither will we if this continues get him oooooooooooooooooooot

i'm not trying to start an argument with you here pal but you're kind of missing the point i was asking a question about allardyce that you've ignored - in 10 years at a club he's not really brought any youngsters through has he? certainly not what you'd expect for that amount of time...is that what we want? i'm not saying all of the kids should automatically play but when they have played this season by and large they've held their own despite obviously having little in the way of coaching or help from senior professionals.... the fact is that whoever takes over the club will have a good group of bairns in and around the squad and i'm asking is allardyce the man to handle that? i'm not saying he is or isn't just asking for more than "With Allardyce, if a youngster is good enough, he'll get to play, but if he isn't good enough he's gone." what evidence do you have to back that up like? how do you know he never held up the development of a bairn to bring in one of his "foreign bargains" we hear so much about? maybe you know the ins and outs of his time at bolton, if so do tell... Hunt and Nolan? Two players who have come through and been significantly better than any player who has come through at newcastle in the past ten years. What players have left Bolton and gone onto greater things? - None, sure looks like Allardyce knows what he is doing. We must not also forget that we can afford to spend ten-fold more on our academy than Bolton have been able to. Please, don't be daft. I'm not saying that some of our current crop wont be better than Hunt in a few years time, but Hunt has made it, he is an important player in a club that has finished 5th this season. The following players have come through the ranks since 1997: Ameobi S Caldwell G Caldwell (although he has only featured at other clubs) Chopra Hughes N'Zogbia Ramage Taylor I'm only counting players that have regularly featured for two seasons of high level matches. Edgar, Huntington and Krul are too early to judge. Of the above, Taylor and Zoggy are potentially going to be better than Hunt, but Hunt is currently more established and performing more consistently. So I still stand by my claims that in ten years of Allardyce, he has done better with his young players than we have in that same period. where did you get the comparison with NUFC for the last 10 years??!! never been mentioned, we're a bag of s*** and mostly always have been...there was no comparison there from me i'm saying that there are players coming through NOW regardless of who is charge...and you still stand by hunt and nolan over a 10 year period do you? in that same 10 year period, seeing as you're making comparisons, newcastle have had 5-6 managers, hardly a recipe for long-term stability is it? furthermore nicky hunt is better than taylor!!! i'd stand and argue that with you all day mate We overrate our own youngsters, and then five years later, we realise how rubbish they were when we see them playing for Villa reserves in a team managed by a good manager. We do have 3-4 players who look like they might make it,but it is up to the manager to assess them. We cant play them just for the sake of seeing if they can fulfil potential. You got the ten year comparison because you asked what Allardyce has produced, and that is an unfair question to ask given our own record. I think i have made it clear that assuming our academy is up to scratch, Allardyce would be better at this than Keegan, Dalglish, Gullit, Robson and Souness were, and we are not in a position in which we can magically employ this fictional manager who can win trophies and play the kids at the same time. I can only name two recent examples for Allardyce, as I have not been minutely following Bolton over the last ten years. I can be certain though that now player has slipped the net. Nicky Hunt and Steven Taylor are at two different stages of their development, and given that Taylor remains very tactically inexperienced, especially at set-pieces, Hunt currently edges Taylor, although I'd like to see both in a Newcastle back four next season. I'm sure that if Allardyce had had Taylor over the past two seasons, Taylor would be in the England squad. If anyone can get performances out of our young defenders, Allardyce can, so given that Edgar, and Huntington have both had their chances, if Allardyce has seen potential in them, he'd be a very good choice of manager in order to get the best out of them. aha! i've found it, happens a lot on here when i'm talking at cross purposes with someone just takes a while for me to sniff it out you see the statement "employ this fictional manager who can win trophies and play the kids at the same time" tells me that we'll never agree 'cause i've reconciled myself with the fact that we will not be winning trophy's for a very, VERY long time for a variety of factors the idea that people are out there who still even mention it like it might be a possibility amazes me it's reason i harp on about the kids you see? we're broke, to all intents and purposes, & we have a poor team/coaching/medical setup yet as a club we have no realisation of the situation we're in and are still trying to behave like we're in with a shout of 4th place man reality bites dude and it bit me a while back...to me the best option we have as a club is to ship as much garbage as we can this summer, get someone like allardyce to spend what money we have wisely across the board and then give these bairns a shout...what's the alternative? by the way agreed about taylor and allardyce 100%

not sure of the decision making dynamics of the club but i would wonder what the other major shareholders have to say about things at this juncture....regardless of the power freddy wields he surely isn't allowed to act unilaterally in these situations?? if there is a meeting, and by christ you'd hope there was gonna be, then i'd hope freddy's stubborness over the allardyce slight would have to be countered by the rest of the board members this time!!

i'm not trying to start an argument with you here pal but you're kind of missing the point i was asking a question about allardyce that you've ignored - in 10 years at a club he's not really brought any youngsters through has he? certainly not what you'd expect for that amount of time...is that what we want? i'm not saying all of the kids should automatically play but when they have played this season by and large they've held their own despite obviously having little in the way of coaching or help from senior professionals.... the fact is that whoever takes over the club will have a good group of bairns in and around the squad and i'm asking is allardyce the man to handle that? i'm not saying he is or isn't just asking for more than "With Allardyce, if a youngster is good enough, he'll get to play, but if he isn't good enough he's gone." what evidence do you have to back that up like? how do you know he never held up the development of a bairn to bring in one of his "foreign bargains" we hear so much about? maybe you know the ins and outs of his time at bolton, if so do tell... Hunt and Nolan? Two players who have come through and been significantly better than any player who has come through at newcastle in the past ten years. What players have left Bolton and gone onto greater things? - None, sure looks like Allardyce knows what he is doing. We must not also forget that we can afford to spend ten-fold more on our academy than Bolton have been able to. Please, don't be daft. I'm not saying that some of our current crop wont be better than Hunt in a few years time, but Hunt has made it, he is an important player in a club that has finished 5th this season. The following players have come through the ranks since 1997: Ameobi S Caldwell G Caldwell (although he has only featured at other clubs) Chopra Hughes N'Zogbia Ramage Taylor I'm only counting players that have regularly featured for two seasons of high level matches. Edgar, Huntington and Krul are too early to judge. Of the above, Taylor and Zoggy are potentially going to be better than Hunt, but Hunt is currently more established and performing more consistently. So I still stand by my claims that in ten years of Allardyce, he has done better with his young players than we have in that same period. where did you get the comparison with NUFC for the last 10 years??!! never been mentioned, we're a bag of shit and mostly always have been...there was no comparison there from me i'm saying that there are players coming through NOW regardless of who is charge...and you still stand by hunt and nolan over a 10 year period do you? in that same 10 year period, seeing as you're making comparisons, newcastle have had 5-6 managers, hardly a recipe for long-term stability is it? furthermore nicky hunt is better than taylor!!! i'd stand and argue that with you all day mate

i never said a word about playing players either 'cause they're local or from the academy...i pointed out the ones who have ability and have looked like they can cut it in the premier league, that is all mourinho is a case in point as it happens, thanks for mentioning him; another results oriented manager who only seems to throw the likes of diarra in during an injury crisis but basically seems to stick with his older, more experienced players...(i refer here to his time at chel$ki rather than porto) and he gets a fair amount of stick for it...he let robert huth go last summer, sent all the kids out on loan then regretted it when he had no defenders!!!