Shadow Puppets

Who’s clueless?

Arsenal or Spurs? ??? He’s a million miles away from the quality required to play for either of those teams. He’s done really well for the last three or four months, but let’s not forget that his default performance level is “weak as piss but a decent finisher”. Still don’t think he’s good enough for where we should be aiming, personally. He wouldn’t start for an Everton or Leicester for example.

makes no fucking sense, that brush moved it to his hip that moved to to the goal etc. same rules should apply as to defenders, there's nowt else to it (granted it appears the stupid fucking rules make no sense) Highly debatable that it changed the flight of the ball at all. Maybe by millimetres.

Would have been insanely harsh to disallow it for brushing his arm like. It’s literally a brush. His arm made no movement towards it. His arms not in an unnatural position. As far as I know those are the two criteria?

I’m sorry like, that’s a foul! Every day of the week.

Young David Guest...

Dare I say, from a bit of YouTube scouting, there’s a bit of Ben Arfa about this lad. Exciting!

There, right there. THAT’S the reason I still go to the games. That feeling man! Makes you fall in love all over again!

That’s exactly the point. I, along with thousands others, are happy to get at him in every way we can other than stopping going. Why should we allow one man to stop us doing our hobby. Surely he wins. Maybe not financially, but his agenda wins if he makes it unbearable for us to be there. As long as Rafa is there or there’s something worth supporting I will be there. Happy to boycott a single match, sure, but not give it up. Surely you can see that you've just invented that bit in bold to vindicate yourself? It makes no sense, why would his agenda be to make it unbearable for you to keep going? His agenda is to make money and you're giving him money, it's really no more complicated than that. Yeah, I agree in hindsight my point there doesn't make much sense. What I was trying to get across was that giving into my hatred of Ashley and stopping going to the games affects my enjoyment, my kid's enjoyment etc. That feels to me as he has won in some way because his presence has made me stop doing something I love.

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion. Sadly it's the only thing that will cause change and that's why it needs to be pushed. There's no concrete value in getting people behind some group or movement if those people arent willing to make the personal sacrifice to push him out. You think that's the only thing that'll work? Despite clear evidence that the big push on social media against Sports Direct and his brands was getting a reaction out of him? Had on a second here, didn't you say before that the Spurs boycott and protest had no effect on Ashley going on Sky and then allowing the club to spend £80m? But now there's clear evidence that the social media campaigns have worked? I think there's clear evidence that they were working and that he was reacting to them, yes. Because it was happening over a prolonged period of time. Sports Direct had to stop tweeting for 2 weeks for christ sake. That kind of thing is major to a business like his. The Spurs boycott was a one-off of people not showing up who had already paid, so yes, I don't necessarily think that had any correlation whatsoever with him happening to spend a bit of money several months later. Just listen to yourself. Making out that them not tweeting for TWO WEEKS is major and boycotting a game doesnt have an effect. For christ sake indeed. The lenghts people go to justify their actions is unreal. OK go on then, I'll bite...tell me how exactly 10,000 people not going to 1 game they'd already paid for had any effect on Mike Ashley? As someone who works in marketing, yes, for a company the size of Sports Direct the inability to tweet for 2 weeks (plus all the other negativity surrounding his brand... the bad reviews on Trustpilot, the bombardment of his other brands etc) is a major issue. The fact remains that if you want people to get on board with a boycott, you're going to have to convince 95% of NUFC fanbase to give up something that they love doing (regardless of the quality on the pitch). If it really is to be pursued, the only way to do it is through a steady stream of information being given out prior to games (leaflets with facts about Ashley's reign etc), and a lot of good and positive cooperation with fans. Mud slinging at people who don't want to do it just makes you look aggressive, and if there's one thing that people don't like, it's being told what to do. My personal feeling is I would be absolutely willing to boycott one game (though I don't believe it would have much effect), but I will never stop going entirely unless I thought there was nothing worth supporting any more. I'm not at that stage... yet.

And I would wish people would stop getting on their soapbox's and pretending to be a better fan than another just because their opinion differs.

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion. Sadly it's the only thing that will cause change and that's why it needs to be pushed. There's no concrete value in getting people behind some group or movement if those people arent willing to make the personal sacrifice to push him out. You think that's the only thing that'll work? Despite clear evidence that the big push on social media against Sports Direct and his brands was getting a reaction out of him? Had on a second here, didn't you say before that the Spurs boycott and protest had no effect on Ashley going on Sky and then allowing the club to spend £80m? But now there's clear evidence that the social media campaigns have worked? I think there's clear evidence that they were working and that he was reacting to them, yes. Because it was happening over a prolonged period of time. Sports Direct had to stop tweeting for 2 weeks for christ sake. That kind of thing is major to a business like his. The Spurs boycott was a one-off of people not showing up who had already paid, so yes, I don't necessarily think that had any correlation whatsoever with him happening to spend a bit of money several months later. That second boggles my mind given he came out on TV directly after it. Then that followed. I’m not saying it 100% did but it was bad far the most effective protest done and then that happens. Yet you can dismiss it entirely. Agree with first part although the only true way anything will work is if you take up so much bandwidth that it’s more hassle than it’s worth and that means considering matches as one of them. ?

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion. Sadly it's the only thing that will cause change and that's why it needs to be pushed. There's no concrete value in getting people behind some group or movement if those people arent willing to make the personal sacrifice to push him out. You think that's the only thing that'll work? Despite clear evidence that the big push on social media against Sports Direct and his brands was getting a reaction out of him? Had on a second here, didn't you say before that the Spurs boycott and protest had no effect on Ashley going on Sky and then allowing the club to spend £80m? But now there's clear evidence that the social media campaigns have worked? I think there's clear evidence that they were working and that he was reacting to them, yes. Because it was happening over a prolonged period of time. Sports Direct had to stop tweeting for 2 weeks for christ sake. That kind of thing is major to a business like his. The Spurs boycott was a one-off of people not showing up who had already paid, so yes, I don't necessarily think that had any correlation whatsoever with him happening to spend a bit of money several months later.

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion. Sadly it's the only thing that will cause change and that's why it needs to be pushed. There's no concrete value in getting people behind some group or movement if those people arent willing to make the personal sacrifice to push him out. You think that's the only thing that'll work? Despite clear evidence that the big push on social media against Sports Direct and his brands was getting a reaction out of him?

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion.

Yeah, there's loads of things that we do together, but I want him to fall in love with it the same way that I did (we weren't very good when I started going too).

This ffs. My parents didn't get tickets and didn't have sky - I think I went to one game between the ages of 4-12 - and I was still a massive Newcastle fan despite barely seeing them play live or even on tv. Used to watch them in the pub whenever I could with my dad and when I did get a season ticket at the age of 15 it was brilliant. I wasn't being denied a 'right' to attend the match though - if you're taking your kids for that reason you're doing so because you want to - over and above your grievances with the owner. Just admit that, don't pretend you're doing so because Ashley would otherwise take away some sacred childhood bond you'd get with your kids What's the difference? I want to take my kid, yes. And I'm not going to let my dislike for the owner get in the way of building those bonds with my kid. And that's absolutely fine - but don't pretend that its something you have to do in order to raise your kid properly rather than something you want to do. Plenty of other ways to watch us that don't involve propping up the owner. And what if I believe that? My dad took me to games semi regularly from the age of 4. Those bonds I built with my dad through those years mean the world to me and were a huge part of my childhood. I want to have the same with my lad. So respectfully, Jonny, wind your fucking neck in and stop telling me (and others) what I should be doing. I'm not telling you what you should be doing. Feel free to go to the games. Just accept that you're going to come across as a hypocrite in the future when commenting on all things Ashley. I'm very aware of the hypocrisy. But as others on here will attest... I'm an active member of various protest groups, have been involved in the recent protests, and will continue to do so. I just happen to believe there are ways to get at Mike Ashley (as was proved by the very effective online protests against his business interests) that don't affect the enjoyment levels of the average match going fan. Like it or not, people still enjoy going to support their club, Ashley or not, so things should be focused online in my honest opinion. That was working for TMG in the summer, but was abandoned for matchday action, which clearly fell on deaf ears. Since then, everything has gone to shit.

This ffs. My parents didn't get tickets and didn't have sky - I think I went to one game between the ages of 4-12 - and I was still a massive Newcastle fan despite barely seeing them play live or even on tv. Used to watch them in the pub whenever I could with my dad and when I did get a season ticket at the age of 15 it was brilliant. I wasn't being denied a 'right' to attend the match though - if you're taking your kids for that reason you're doing so because you want to - over and above your grievances with the owner. Just admit that, don't pretend you're doing so because Ashley would otherwise take away some sacred childhood bond you'd get with your kids What's the difference? I want to take my kid, yes. And I'm not going to let my dislike for the owner get in the way of building those bonds with my kid. And that's absolutely fine - but don't pretend that its something you have to do in order to raise your kid properly rather than something you want to do. Plenty of other ways to watch us that don't involve propping up the owner. And what if I believe that? My dad took me to games semi regularly from the age of 4. Those bonds I built with my dad through those years mean the world to me and were a huge part of my childhood. I want to have the same with my lad. So respectfully, Jonny, wind your fucking neck in and stop telling me (and others) what I should be doing.

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about.

This ffs. My parents didn't get tickets and didn't have sky - I think I went to one game between the ages of 4-12 - and I was still a massive Newcastle fan despite barely seeing them play live or even on tv. Used to watch them in the pub whenever I could with my dad and when I did get a season ticket at the age of 15 it was brilliant. I wasn't being denied a 'right' to attend the match though - if you're taking your kids for that reason you're doing so because you want to - over and above your grievances with the owner. Just admit that, don't pretend you're doing so because Ashley would otherwise take away some sacred childhood bond you'd get with your kids What's the difference? I want to take my kid, yes. And I'm not going to let my dislike for the owner get in the way of building those bonds with my kid.

This is exactly what I was talking about last week and was called up on it. If you don’t do things you want to do just because of Ashley, then ultimately he wins. Just take her. I’ve taken my 3 year old twice this season. He’s loved it, even though we lost both times. I want to have that bond with my son, and I want him to fall in love with it. Ashley won’t be here forever, and life’s too short not to make memories with my lad. Ultimately he won’t remember whether we won or lost or whether some fat bastard was ruining the club. He’ll remember the buzz and the noise in the stadium when we score, and the day he’s spent with his dad. Ashley isn’t taking that away from me or him. Not specifically aimed at you, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the attitude on hear that you can be a better fan by not going to the games. Get over yourselves. Accept that ultimately it’s an emotional decision for a lot of people. Sure, if you take all emotion out of it, the correct thing to do is to stop going. But like it or not the emotional connection is huge for a lot of people. They are not mugs or thick or Ashley sympathisers or whatever. Everyone’s different.

Or...everything you read in the press is speculation and no one really knows.

That’s exactly the point. I, along with thousands others, are happy to get at him in every way we can other than stopping going. Why should we allow one man to stop us doing our hobby. Surely he wins. Maybe not financially, but his agenda wins if he makes it unbearable for us to be there. As long as Rafa is there or there’s something worth supporting I will be there. Happy to boycott a single match, sure, but not give it up. You've said yourself all he cares about is money. How does he win if you stop giving it to him? Your position is that you are thwarting him by giving him £500+ a year unconditionally and indefinitely. This position, to any impartial observer, is completely fucking mental. Btw there isn't anything worth supporting there. Hasn't been for years. Firstly I never said “unconditionally and indefinitely”. There are limits for everyone, but as I say, I’ve supported through much worse. It will get better. I guess I just don’t believe people not showing up will make the slightest bit of difference. Sports Direct and it’s branding is all he cares about, hence the PR machine going into full force when they were under attack. Focus on that.