Kid Icarus

Actually takes longer and more effort to piss standing up then wipe the drips, spray the floor, and wipe that

FWIW I make up for it in public by standing at the urinal with my trousers and my boxers all the way down to my ankles

Got to admit like, after a few years of getting told off by your lass for drips you didn't notice...it's a lot easier to just save your future self the hassle and sit down.

I'm not man, I'm just saying.

The point is that the drop off isn't necessarily as a result of the manager. We can say that no Europe and the drop off is an issue for us all we like, but that doesn't mean it's the manager's fault, that getting a new one would rectify the problem, or even that we're in any position to make such demands on any manager anyway.

3rd, but from 1st and a drop off of 20 points on their previous season. We're looking at about the same sort of drop off %-wise. The bit in bold is exactly my point! If it can happen to him...

Well as you say, it's Howe who had it and has shown he can do it, so let's hope he does it again. That 'Eddie Howe FC supporter' craic is the worst going like. Makes zero sense.

Honestly, part of it for me is remembering how shocking and hilarious it was that Man City were that bad last season when they were in transition and before they spent ungodly amounts of money to add to their already insane squad in January. Best manager in the world, but were absolute garbage and went some daft amount of time never being able to win a match without Rodri playing. Similarly Klopp in his second last Liverpool season. These transitions are painful and very difficult to navigate with immediate success imo.

Long haul is a funny choice of words like. It's one step away from a slog.

Nothing to apologise for! I wouldn't say it's that I'm optimistic I think the club has said things that make me believe he might not be here past the summer, and there are plenty in our fanbase with their knives out for him. It's more that I have faith in Howe and am confident that if he sees this through we'll see (again) how lucky we are to have him as our manager - and I don't think that's anywhere near blind faith in him either, it's predominantly based on the evidence.

I don't think it looks like him having hand-picked signings at all. It's been done to death but the summer window was needs must because we didn't have a DoF, prior to that we had a committee that he was part of. I envisage that committee being re-established with a fresh, data-lead (and I can say with a decent level of confidence based on limited ITK information that this data-lead approach is what Howe has been pushing for for a while and IS now the approach) where we're signing players we're just as confident about being sure-things, but aren't as well-known. What our style will be, I don't know, PL football in general feels like it's in the trenches at the moment and I'm not sure what comes next - but I think he's our best chance at navigating it largely because of how obsessive and dedicated he is, but mainly because his success speaks for itself.

Given what I've seen from much better managers than Howe (Pep and Klopp being the main two) struggling just as much in identical circumstances, I don't think the problem we're having is unique to Howe or that he uniquely is incapable of navigating it. Not least because the evidence that we have for Howe having to regroup and go again with new teams and get better and better is also there to see. His Bournemouth team went through 3 or 4 versions and styles going through League 2, League 1, and the Championship before they got to their peak in the Premier League.

That's a very easy presumption to make, but I don't think it's as much of an automatic natural consequence as you're laying out there like, not to the extent that we automatically reach the same heights that Howe has or higher anyway. I wasn't comparing to Ashley, I was comparing to Rafa's ability to not make us mugs but with a ceiling on the success that that brings. Our resources and ambition are still limited now remember, the only difference is that they're not self-imposed.

I think a lot of that holds true tbh, but I think it's again something in the plus column for a manager that you already know can produce the goods if they're given the opportunity to go again. Personally I do think we're in transition and I've been saying that all season, at the moment we're neither a new team, nor the one we've been. Hopefully next season we'll be fully Howe 2.0 and it'll be just as, if not more successful than Howe 1.0. This basically:

And if we tick all of those boxes, while finishing in lower positions in the league...? We were no pushovers under Rafa, for example.

All of the things you're describing there are contained within this one bad season. You can say the signs were there beforehand or whatever, but the reality is still that every season before this has been a successful one.

This whole 'managers have a shelf life at clubs' thing that I keep seeing doing the rounds is an odd one. It appears to just be something that a group of people have decided is a thing without there really being any clear evidence for it and imo could be much more accurately described as 'when things go to shit, no matter what the reason, the manager is usually the fall guy, so let's do that as well' I do agree that things do often come to a natural end, but it seems to me more like a self-fulfilling prophecy with Howe and a section of our fans at the moment like. If they backed him with faith, as they should be imo, I don't think the notion of things coming to a natural end would even factor into this. Everyone has the autonomy to step back and look at his full body of work and not indulge in thinking that one poor season, with a ton of mitigating and contributing circumstances, means that the thing that needs to change before everything else is the manager. Considering what he's given us, he should be one of the last things to change.

If par is 8th based on wages and we've finished: 4th, 7th, 5th, then let's say anything from 8th to 15th with loads of mitigating circumstances. Exactly what is the expectation of a new manager? That we get someone capable of punching even higher above our weight than that? But that also isn't either already at a top club or going to be snapped up by one? Honestly, the more you think about it, the more unhinged it all sounds.

IIRC Semenyo was a release clause.

Plenty that give a fuck about that.

Gordon has been given more rope than any other player I can remember, it was only this season that he started getting criticised despite being poor for 18 months up until then. He's improved in the last 6 months but the same problem with inconsistency is still there.

The idea that he's outgrown us is hilarious like. He got into the England setup off the back of an excellent 23/24 and has then been shite for the best part of 2 years, with a huge amount of slack given until recently. It was very much a case of him having his last chance to buck his ideas up next season or we'd need an upgrade. Definitely one that wouldn't sting to see leave.

Listening to the Athletic podcast and Ornstein seems to be saying that the club is committed to Howe and that the bigger thing to worry about is that the project at ownership level is looking directionless (surprise, surprise) and that we'll probably lose one or two of Gordon, Tonali, Livramento with little indication that we can replace them with as good or better players.

Well obviously, but they can sell us.

Wouldn't be surprised if this or something similar was the reason PIF pulled out like. It's always felt like some external geopolitical event like this is what would make that happen since it happened with Chelsea.