Kid Icarus

Apologies, but the whole virtue signalling, snowflake, IDpol bollocks pisses me off as well and I don't think it's fair to apply it to anyone on here, particularly when we're talking about war criminals and not about being triggered over language or whatever. I think everyone, pretty much to a man, has been respectful of everyone else's individual decision tbh.

No. They could have done something and they didn't. And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football? People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything. I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here. Theres tonnes of virtue signalling going on, not just from people in here. Is it bollocks. Not a single person on here has chastised anyone else for not making the same personal decision that they have. The Saudis are human rights abusers and we shouldn't want them owning the club, any arguement to the contrary is either wrong, irrelevant or "whataboutery". Its condescending to anyone who also has a brain, has also weighed up the pros and cons, who had also heard of sports washing before this thing. Bullshit. The argument isn't that you 'shouldn't want them owning the club' at all and I challenge you to find anyone saying that. The argument was that whataboutery is being used to deflect from the fact that the Saudis are human rights abusers. Nothing more, nothing less. As has been said countless times, it's possible to make a decision that each person's conscience is comfortable with, without feeling the need put any and every argument in front of reckoning with the facts about who these people are.

Without wanting to get into talking about a wider political point or whatever, I agree and I think Covid has massively exposed all of the grim, blood-sucking failings of capitalism overall.

No. They could have done something and they didn't. And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football? People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything. I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here. Theres tonnes of virtue signalling going on, not just from people in here. Is it bollocks. Not a single person on here has chastised anyone else for not making the same personal decision that they have.

No. They could have done something and they didn't. And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football? People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything. I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here.

He didn't do that though? He just said it was something to think about then Loki told him to walk away.

He's making a completely fair point.

How many people do you think read the Guardian or Independent to read the views of respected journalists? Most get their news from the Sun or the Daily Mail, so people like Richard Keys and Talksport tossers are the ones getting their point across, at least for the average punter. Where have you plucked that point from? The Guardian has a monthly readership of 55 million, The Independent 50 million. The Daily Mail's is only 5 million more, The Sun's 20 million more. (Source - https://www.newsworks.org.uk/) How far are people going to go to continue making these points? Can you not just admit that the issue has come into your own focus because it's something you pay attention to? Are those online figures? Because I am pretty sure that the Guardian and Independent would have a lot of international readers which would contribute to those figures, whereas the tabloids will generally get only the British readers, and those are the ones who matter in relation to this deal. No one in Korea will give a crap about Richard Keys for example, but people over here will. All of them are combined online and publishing figures, but even then the idea that national press is somehow what matters over international press is backwards. No idea why you'd pursue this line of argument like. Because I live here, and the general consensus of opinion in this country impacts me a lot more than what happens around the world. The takeover is being discussed furiously in this country, but I am guessing in other countries they would probably not even give it a second glance. Isn't that the exact point me and others are trying to make? That it's not Newcastle's being singled out, it's just that your own awareness of this s*** has increased because it's come into your world and that outside of that world there's already a very high level of awareness of MBS and what the Saudis are responsible for? Both worlds have collided and now Newcastle and its fans will be inextricably linked with him and the things he's done, whether we like it or not. The rest of the world won't be that bothered about Newcastle Utd, at least not in my opinion. They might read the article and then shrug their shoulders. More than likely they'll be far more preoccupied with what's going on in their own neck of the woods. FWIW, I've never said we are being singled out, my gripe has never been with Amnesty or political journalists who write for the broadsheets. It's always been about the Paul Mersons, Richard Keys and Martin Samuels. Yes I know they are massive bell-ends, but these are the people with the loudest voices which affect me as a Newcastle supporter. Whether they reach the ears of someone sitting in the Congo is irrelevant to me. I'm not sure why you'd let that bouquet of dicks get to you tbh, but going back to your first point, the rest of the world are bothered about SBM, it doesn't matter if they're aware of Newcastle or not. The rest of the world are bothered about SBM, but not bothered enough to let it get in the way of making money. That's not a criticism btw, just pointing out the reality of how the world works. Are they aware you're speaking on their behalf?

I want to hear Stifler's thoughts on that analogy and to see if he can top it.

How many people do you think read the Guardian or Independent to read the views of respected journalists? Most get their news from the Sun or the Daily Mail, so people like Richard Keys and Talksport tossers are the ones getting their point across, at least for the average punter. Where have you plucked that point from? The Guardian has a monthly readership of 55 million, The Independent 50 million. The Daily Mail's is only 5 million more, The Sun's 20 million more. (Source - https://www.newsworks.org.uk/) How far are people going to go to continue making these points? Can you not just admit that the issue has come into your own focus because it's something you pay attention to? Are those online figures? Because I am pretty sure that the Guardian and Independent would have a lot of international readers which would contribute to those figures, whereas the tabloids will generally get only the British readers, and those are the ones who matter in relation to this deal. No one in Korea will give a crap about Richard Keys for example, but people over here will. All of them are combined online and publishing figures, but even then the idea that national press is somehow what matters over international press is backwards. No idea why you'd pursue this line of argument like. Because I live here, and the general consensus of opinion in this country impacts me a lot more than what happens around the world. The takeover is being discussed furiously in this country, but I am guessing in other countries they would probably not even give it a second glance. Isn't that the exact point me and others are trying to make? That it's not Newcastle's being singled out, it's just that your own awareness of this s*** has increased because it's come into your world and that outside of that world there's already a very high level of awareness of MBS and what the Saudis are responsible for? Both worlds have collided and now Newcastle and its fans will be inextricably linked with him and the things he's done, whether we like it or not. The rest of the world won't be that bothered about Newcastle Utd, at least not in my opinion. They might read the article and then shrug their shoulders. More than likely they'll be far more preoccupied with what's going on in their own neck of the woods. FWIW, I've never said we are being singled out, my gripe has never been with Amnesty or political journalists who write for the broadsheets. It's always been about the Paul Mersons, Richard Keys and Martin Samuels. Yes I know they are massive bell-ends, but these are the people with the loudest voices which affect me as a Newcastle supporter. Whether they reach the ears of someone sitting in the Congo is irrelevant to me. I'm not sure why you'd let that bouquet of dicks get to you tbh, but going back to your first point, the rest of the world are bothered about SBM, it doesn't matter if they're aware of Newcastle or not.

I think many people feel that Independent journalists are a bit hypocritical, when a Saudi investor part owns the company. I thought that journalists' work not being dictated by the owners of their outlets would be seen as a good thing but you live and learn. He could try and get a job at another newspaper, since hes so principled. Or do something like write articles about it? There's a weird dynamic at play here where a lot of the people who wouldn't walk away from watching football matches despite hating their club's owner are now expecting people to walk away from their jobs instead of kicking up a fuss.

How many people do you think read the Guardian or Independent to read the views of respected journalists? Most get their news from the Sun or the Daily Mail, so people like Richard Keys and Talksport tossers are the ones getting their point across, at least for the average punter. Where have you plucked that point from? The Guardian has a monthly readership of 55 million, The Independent 50 million. The Daily Mail's is only 5 million more, The Sun's 20 million more. (Source - https://www.newsworks.org.uk/) How far are people going to go to continue making these points? Can you not just admit that the issue has come into your own focus because it's something you pay attention to? Are those online figures? Because I am pretty sure that the Guardian and Independent would have a lot of international readers which would contribute to those figures, whereas the tabloids will generally get only the British readers, and those are the ones who matter in relation to this deal. No one in Korea will give a crap about Richard Keys for example, but people over here will. All of them are combined online and publishing figures, but even then the idea that national press is somehow what matters over international press is backwards. No idea why you'd pursue this line of argument like. Because I live here, and the general consensus of opinion in this country impacts me a lot more than what happens around the world. The takeover is being discussed furiously in this country, but I am guessing in other countries they would probably not even give it a second glance. Isn't that the exact point me and others are trying to make? That it's not Newcastle's being singled out, it's just that your own awareness of this shit has increased because it's come into your world and that outside of that world there's already a very high level of awareness of MBS and what the Saudis are responsible for? Both worlds have collided and now Newcastle and its fans will be inextricably linked with him and the things he's done, whether we like it or not.

How many people do you think read the Guardian or Independent to read the views of respected journalists? Most get their news from the Sun or the Daily Mail, so people like Richard Keys and Talksport tossers are the ones getting their point across, at least for the average punter. Where have you plucked that point from? The Guardian has a monthly readership of 55 million, The Independent 50 million. The Daily Mail's is only 5 million more, The Sun's 20 million more. (Source - https://www.newsworks.org.uk/) How far are people going to go to continue making these points? Can you not just admit that the issue has come into your own focus because it's something you pay attention to? Are those online figures? Because I am pretty sure that the Guardian and Independent would have a lot of international readers which would contribute to those figures, whereas the tabloids will generally get only the British readers, and those are the ones who matter in relation to this deal. No one in Korea will give a crap about Richard Keys for example, but people over here will. All of them are combined online and publishing figures, but even then the idea that national press is somehow what matters over international press is backwards. No idea why you'd pursue this line of argument like.

How many people do you think read the Guardian or Independent to read the views of respected journalists? Most get their news from the Sun or the Daily Mail, so people like Richard Keys and Talksport tossers are the ones getting their point across, at least for the average punter. Where have you plucked that point from? The Guardian has a monthly readership of 55 million, The Independent 50 million. The Daily Mail's is only 5 million more, The Sun's 20 million more. (Source - https://www.newsworks.org.uk/) How far are people going to go to continue making these points? Can you not just admit that the issue has come into your own focus because it's something you pay attention to?

He's not winding me up, it's simply an example of someone who has a high profile platform to spout a load of rubbish when it comes to Newcastle. The fact that the Premier League already has Saudi owners who were allowed in without any hint of a fuss is another example. Do you know this for a fact or is it not just that the issue's now come into your world so you're more aware of it? He's not winding me up, it's simply an example of someone who has a high profile platform to spout a load of rubbish when it comes to Newcastle. The fact that the Premier League already has Saudi owners who were allowed in without any hint of a fuss is another example. once again to make it clear private saudi owner (who yes is a member of the royal family but theres a lot of them) is not the state of saudi arabia which whats buying nufc through their public investment fund thats the difference and why theres not a fuss about Sheffield Uniteds owner. Does it matter? They're still from Saudi Arabia, the place with the rotten human rights records, and the place that is pirating games from beIN Sport. The same outrage should apply, but it didn't. I don't recall seeing Sheff Utd's takeover dominating the football headlines and loads of people having their say on it, or trying everything they could to block the deal. If that did happen to the level we're getting rocks thrown at us then I'll gladly hold my hands up and say I'm wrong, but again I don't recall that happening. Of course it matters, putting it all under the Saudi umbrella would be the same as putting The Queen or The Tories under the same umbrella as Saatchi & Saatchi and The Green Party and trying to say they're all the same.

He's not winding me up, it's simply an example of someone who has a high profile platform to spout a load of rubbish when it comes to Newcastle. The fact that the Premier League already has Saudi owners who were allowed in without any hint of a fuss is another example. Do you know this for a fact or is it not just that the issue's now come into your world so you're more aware of it?

Sticking this in here because I don't want to piss on everyone's bonfire in the main thread, but I'm at the point where I don't want this to happen now tbh. I've tried to view it as Ashley leaving, but I'd actually rather keep Ashley and wait for someone else to come along, fully in the knowledge of how shit and hopeless that situation is. I never thought I'd pass up the opportunity to get rid of Ashley, but fair play to him, he's managed to find an owner even more toxic than he is, and for me whatever money and success that will come along just isn't worth it. I'm not gonna lie, I've had pangs of excitement thinking about this or that player or manager and it'll happen again, and I've tried to believe that there'll be Saudi social reform and all that, but I don't believe it and I know deep down I'm just trying to talk myself into it. Once the excitement fades, there's no illusion about who's funding it. I'll very likely be a hypocrite and still watch us on telly, just as I do now despite having more or less given up on the club in its current state, but I'm not going to kid myself about what I think's happening and although I hope I'm wrong, I think we're about to watch the selling out of our club's entire history to one of the worst people in existence. It had already been largely sold out to a cheap sports shop with awful business practices, but this is such a giant leap into sadistic, pathological evil that I don't think I could feel happiness and pride towards NUFC in the way alluded to in SBR's famous 'what is a club in any case...' quote while they're at the helm. I get that I'm just one person and that my opinion doesn't mean anything, and I'm not in any way chastising anyone else for whatever personal decision they come to. Anyone saying that Newcastle fans should just do X or Y over this don't seem to understand the emotional ties to the club, that I'm sure they have with their own. I just wanted to vent I guess.

We really were in for him weren't we, or was it just Douglas Hall saying who he'd like. Can't remember. We were, it's in Keegan's book and in others. I think it was Freddy Shepherd and Douglas Hall that went over to Turin to talk to Juve about it and basically just got told to fuck off.

Fabianski Lahm Godin Van Dijk Maldini Socrates De Bruyne Gascoigne C. Ronaldo Messi Mbappe

I think it would be more that it would be a complete waste of time. Ashley's universally despised by our fans and we still couldn't convince people to do what it would take to get rid of him. It took Rafa being replaced with Bruce for a significant amount to finally walk away.

I had no problem with him having a journalist dismembered while he was still alive, or when he bombed a childrens hospital in Yemen, or when he has gay people thrown off buildings, but he really crossed the line when he affected Bein Sports' profit margin.

You and your pals in a few months.

Motherfucker. Well at least it's the worst player in my XI. Back to the drawing board. I'll have to do it after work though, it'll probably take like 3 hours

Yes, the people who don't fancy their club being owned by a war criminal are the ones with Stockholm Syndrome. You're on a slippery slope towards driving yourself insane if you're just going to pretend all criticism isn't genuine, even among fellow fans. At the very least, you already look ridiculous while doing it. I haven’t once said that SA human rights was acceptable. I took offence at all the bandwagon jumpers, yourself included who didn’t give two f***s about what was going on over there until now. NIMBYism at its worst. Are you not the bloke who reopened discussion with being past caring and wished us well, only to spent the next few days posting relentlessly about how bad our new owners were? That’s more ridiculous. You see, this is why you look ridiculous. How would you know if I or anyone on here cared about SA human rights abuses before all this? You're just guessing and I know you are because I've been on this forum for the best part of 15 years, have discussed this stuff at length for years (amongst other forum members) and there's been an active thread dedicated to Saudi human rights abuses since 2015. https://www.newcastle-online.org/forum/index.php?topic=97318.0 I'm the bloke who wished you all well before I knew who we were welcoming into our city with open arms, yes. Does me quickly changing my mind once I realised our owner is going to be a war criminal also disqualify me from prefering the club to not be owned by a war criminal? The mental gymnastics to actually avoid dealing with the substance is astounding. If it's not journalists' hypocrisy and the supposed bias against Newcastle, it's the heel turns of Newcastle fans on a football forum. Don’t think many would care, unfortunately. Looks like Deuce was right. P.S I didn't say you said it was acceptable either btw, just that those not wanting a war criminal for a football owner aren't the ones with Stockholm Syndrome. I apologise for directing at you as this has been yours (and any one else’s stance from the offset) But f*** the bandwagon jumpers! Fair enough, fair play for being big enough to apologise and I accept. Everyone has their own exposure point to this stuff and I would think that for many of our fans this'll be that moment. Not everyone will be jumping on the bandwagon for whatever other reason. Like I sort of alluded to earlier as well, hypocrisy, double standards, bandwagon jumping, and all that that stuff is also kind of irrelevant. None of it stops the points being made from being largely true.