St. Maximin

Just came across that way from your previous reaction mate. But anyway I know I’m being pedantic here and it’s wrong to say you prefer people of a certain gender (as with race, sexuality etc) doing something, but I think the intentions behind those kind of claims aren’t bad even if they shouldn’t be expressed like that.

You actually haven’t. Saying someone shouldn’t commentate or will automatically be inferior because she’s a women is without doubt misogynist, but nobody has said that. I don’t agree with Keegan or his supporters here, but some of the reactions haven’t been proportionate. It’s of course possible I’ve misinterpreted quotes, but no need to get angry mate.

Typical of here, you see something differently and get bluntly attacked for it.

No. Thanks for kindly explaining why I’m wrong though.

“Nothing misogynistic about preferring male commentators to female ones .” I don’t think that’s misogynistic at all if someone can’t help but prefer the male commentators that are available to the female commentators, assuming it’s based on their commentary.

I don’t agree with Keegan but as others have said it’s not helped by the way he’s said it and it’s likely a response to a question. He could probably have said the reverse for women’s football too if that helps. His opinions shouldn’t change our opinion of him or many other people for that matter. People who come from a different generation see the world differently, whether we like it or not, which won’t necessarily make them stupid or bad people. What’s all this about preferring male commentators to female commentators being misogynistic though? It’s one thing to say they shouldn’t be allowed to or will automatically be worse because they’re women, but I’d wager most people here would put few, if any, women as their favourite commentators? That’s not to say things might not change over time.

I think Southgate is very shortsighted and lacks a ruthless approach, on and off the pitch. He has plenty of time between tournaments to build for the next one, giving young and in-form players opportunities to embed into the team as well as manage regulars properly. It’s one thing if a player performs better for England than club, but it’s another if they don’t play at all for their club. Maguire’s most recent performances are no surprise here and this is where he should be giving the message you can’t be a long-term benchwarmer (or play in Saudi) if you want to keep your place. Sends a bad message to everyone really. His defence is players seem to never let him down, but maybe that’s not enough and we should be looking to win something? I’m glad the general narrative has shifted from us being proud of our brave losers. Watch us get to the next WC and he still doesn’t know how to fit Foden into the team in a position he supposedly doesn’t play for his club while picking players who never play anywhere for their club.

Great footballer, shame he can’t defend though.

Man of many talents. 0-19 off 3 overs and out second ball against me in 2018 mind.

I am joking - was just referring to the imaginary pressure some of the media had made up after a brief spell of disappointing results against strong sides! https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66760555 The man is and always has been a delight.

Good win today, hopefully takes the pressure off him a bit.

Tbh rightly or wrongly I think KSA’s growing prominence in football over the last 12 months has made me both more annoyed at them but also more accepting of our takeover, like we’re far less of an exception. It is of course frustrating seeing a lot of ‘whataboutery’ and KSA apologetics from small sections of our fanbase. But we shouldn’t forget the fact that every football club has complete and utter idiots supporting them, no matter how likeable the club is otherwise.

I kind of agree but it’s certainly far from a rule. France weren’t by and large amazing to watch in 2018 even if very good and Portugal were awful in 2016 - safe to say they relied a lot on luck then. However, I wouldn’t say Argentina were boring in 2022. I know France pulled it back to make a stunning final, but they absolutely destroyed the champions that first half through positive and attacking football. I think it’s fair to say ‘on paper’ they weren’t the best squad and didn’t try to make up for their deficiencies through caution. Italy in 2021 were also (surprisingly) great to watch if I recall correctly and again I don’t think they had the best squad, but were definitely the best team in the tournament. Pretty sure if we’d swapped managers we’d have dominated that match and won in normal time. Southgate tries to compensate for defensive weaknesses with fewer attackers and likes to rely on players he ‘trusts’. It’s such a negative and frustrating tactic. Playing your best players doesn’t mean you should be gung ho and neglect defensive responsibilities. He also has plenty of time between tournaments to embed young and exciting or in-form players. Instead he’ll get to the tournament too reluctant to use Foden because he hasn’t allowed the team to be built around him, for example.

Yeah, I agree there is definitely a lot of context needed, but I think it’s easily stated for a reason. He’s received a lot of praise, in particular in 2018 and 2021, much of which I agree with and I find it frustrating when some of his biggest critics are so polarised and can’t appreciate the nuances. Saying that on the other hand I think he really benefits from situations he’s in, being compared to the poor managers before him, and I would say a tendency from some to see England as brave losers, plucky underdogs etc. There was nothing particularly heroic about 2021 but England gave us a reason to be excited and feel united after the worst part of a pandemic and playing almost entirely in front of home fans. You can and should still thank him for what he did to put that team together, but it’s not wrong to say we didn’t have the hardest run and the final showed us his limitations and naturally patience for that will wear thin.

I’m by no means Southgate’s biggest defender, but I agreed with all of this until the end. Isn’t that right we always end up losing to good times, having beaten ‘on paper’ weaker sides? Colombia in Sweden in 2018 were nothing special, though I’d actually cut Southgate some slack for Croatia as they were a strong side with a terrific midfield, so he definitely deserved to continue the role. However, ‘2020’ we practically hosted and despite being ‘good’ sides, beating Germany and Denmark (perhaps with good fortune) at home are hardly incredible achievements. Then we lost to an Italy team on penalties, so very small margins, but it was still a failure to beat an arguably weaker side with a home crowd. Then for all the excitement of 2022, we were hardly challenged until the quarter-final, looked shocking against USA and the African champions missed their star man. France are a terrific side so again I’d cut him slack, but given injuries it still seemed a missed opportunity. Southgate has done brilliant things gelling the England squad and reconnecting them with the fans, so I’m annoyed this gets often overlooked. However, I’d say over time there’s only so much patience we can afford. We have world-class players and one of the best squads around, so expectations should naturally be higher than even a few years ago and we can’t keep seeing the team is plucky underdogs. For a lot of people he’s taken us as far as he can get and outstayed his welcome, rather than bizarrely seen as a failure that some would have it.

Agree that’s who the most genuine concern should be when it comes to ‘sportswashing’. The human rights issues are what KSA does to people and not how they’re trying to improve their reputation, not that that’s what it’s solely about anyway. It would be weird and inconsistent if this takeover was blocked on sportswashing grounds as the likes of AI wanted, as it’s not a legal issue, but can still understandably make people feel uncomfortable - someone who cheers the team on and the success their money might bring would typically feel more uneasy than others who gain no benefit from it. Regarding the success of sportswashing, I think it’s a bit different to whitewashing as it isn’t really covering up the acts, but giving more positive coverage in addition. There aren’t other similar words currently as you say, but isn’t trying to improve a reputation typical for all sorts of entities (including businesses, organisations etc) that have and can do harmful things? In fact some could say we did it over here in 2005 by winning the Olympics not long after invading Middle Eastern countries. Ultimately though I’m not sure it’s about being seen as more likeable, but more about relevant and intertwined with our culture and politics for economic benefit primarily. I don’t think all their investment in football has really made them seem more likeable or improved a reputation. It’s no doubt helped western tourism and bizarrely gained a small number of apologists within our fanbase, but for all the attention they’ve gained for sport, they’ve also gained it for human rights issues. And the Saudi league by and large seems to be another reason to be annoyed at the country right now. Appreciate maybe that will change in time though.

Well done Adam. Only thing more he could have done is disable the comments. Actually think as well as being thick a lot of our fans are really weird. Who said you had to like your owners? You can appreciate them taking over your club, but they’re ultimately here to make money in some way or another and you don’t owe them anything.

I don’t get why people say that’s not offside under the rules? The lines are not going to be parallel with the pitch lines due to the camera angle.

Ah fair, actually didn’t know that. That was kind of tongue in cheek about Newcastle but I prefer it in the corner - just think it’s better if your home fans are directly behind both goals.

Home teams putting their away fans right behind a goal. It’s way too close and looks ridiculous seeing them either cheer an away goal or stay quiet when the home team scores. Stuffing them right at the top is one thing Newcastle have always got right.

He persists with his favourites and that stops us from being as good as we should be come the start of a tournament, while he seems very inconsistent with his decisions. His reluctance to play Foden intitially in Qatar was disappointing and I understand it’s due to him not playing centrally for club, but he’s picking players who never play anywhere for club. He seems to like players he can ‘rely’ on too, but sometimes being reliable isn’t really enough.

Not sure class has much to do with it and that kind of prejudice works both ways. The majority of English footballers seem to come from working class backgrounds. I agree on his accent (more as it’s scouse) and looks though, which definitely unfairly create a more negative perception of someone.

Don’t buy the ‘fickle’ comments in general from football fans about others. Firstly who says it’s the same people and secondly why can’t you criticise people when they’re getting a lot wrong, just because they have been excellent? No one should be above criticism. I’m sure his critics still love him and so they should. He needs to find some form though and maybe he doesn’t go about things the right way. He’ll be back though.

Agree but I think very few people seem to be supporters of KSA. I think those that do feel the need to defend them are probably getting a bit defensive or trying to justify the takeover to themselves.

Surely the point is more to add context in response to all the criticism of Newcastle fans being comfortable with this? Does anyone else feel ever so more increasingly more comfortable the longer we’ve been owned by KSA and the better we’ve become? At first there was much needed relief and we were also fighting relegation. Now we’re in the CL, spending increasingly more money and constantly surrounded by positivity, I’m worrying a bit more perhaps out of guilt given all the abuses continuing to go on while we’re out celebrating the significant impacts of Saudi investment. Not that we ourselves have anything to apologise for.