Guest VegasToon Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Liverpool fan on the radio tonight saying that Aston Villa to Liverpool was too big a step up in class for Martin O'Neill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 It's all very well moaning about not having money to spend, but I find it hard to be sympathetic when, in supposedly tight financial circumstances, he goes and spunks 20m on an injured, moody European show pony and almost as much again on a full back who can't actually defend. And the club is 400m in debt, not the owners, as they've loaded it onto the club. If the club then defaults on the interest payments, it isn't G&H personally who go tits up over it, it is the club. Even Doug Ellis managed to see through that utter shyster Gillette. God knows why Moores didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Benitez is a good manager I reckon. It's hard to hide from his failings in the transfer market though. As far as I can tell he spent about £40m this summer (I know he re-couped £30m of it) and that money spent has been horrifically underwhelming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Benitez is a good manager I reckon. It's hard to hide from his failings in the transfer market though. As far as I can tell he spent about £40m this summer (I know he re-couped £30m of it) and that money spent has been horrifically underwhelming. Yep. Taking them from 2nd to 7th whilst spending £10m in the process is always going to cause a few ripples of discontent like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Benitez is a good manager I reckon. It's hard to hide from his failings in the transfer market though. As far as I can tell he spent about £40m this summer (I know he re-couped £30m of it) and that money spent has been horrifically underwhelming. Yep. Taking them from 2nd to 7th whilst spending £10m in the process is always going to cause a few ripples of discontent like. He fucked up last season without a doubt. But the season before the one just finished is the only one in my living memory where they've challenged for the title. I think expectations have maybe been distorted for Liverpool - it's a fucking long time since they've won the league and being in the race until about two games to is the best I can remember them ever doing. Before last year his record in Europe was obscenely good too. They could easily get in someone a lot worse. Having said all that mind his transfer record is shocking...regardless of what has been recouped he hasn't got enough value for the team for what he's spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 He had half as much to spend as Fergie/Chelsea's managers, and twice as much to do. In absolute terms, no his signings weren't good enough, but in value-for-money terms, he didn't do badly. He spent £60m more gross than Fergie from 04/05-08/09. And £60m less than Chelsea in the same period. If you count in 09/10 as well the figures are £90m more gross than Fergie and £38m less than Chelsea. It's not like he hasn't had money to spend is it? So what? Apples and oranges. In summer 04, Fergie already had a fantastic squad that had won the league the previous season. Rafa had a s*** squad full of dross like Diouf and Diao that Houllier had bought. Spurs have spent a similar amount to Liverpool over that period, yet it took us to drop the ball for them to catch us. The thing with Rafa though is that he has continued to buy s*** in some cases. And to be fair Spurs have spent more than you over those seasons, but they are on their 4th manager during this period. So, their board has apparently realised that their managers has bought players who weren't up to it. Much the same as what Rafa has done in some cases. I'm sure you understand this. It's the same with Chelsea really, they're on to their 5th manager in the same space of time. If you don't get the adequate results at a big club, you're out. You can bet your bottom dollar that Wenger would've been out on his arse as well if he had a net spend of over £100m with the same results they've had. At Spurs it's clearly the board that is their problem. Levy doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah, I do agree that Rafa has bought a lot of players who weren't good enough. Yet at the same time, he wasn't given the money to buy enough players who were good enough, anyway. You can talk all day about how much more he's spent than Fergie since Rafa arrived at LFC, or how many players he's bought and sold. The bottom line is, the £85m net he was given to spend was simply not enough money to build a squad that can compete with Chelsea's or Man Utd when you're starting with a squad like Rafa had in 2004. Levy doesn't know what he's doing??? Can't let that one slide. If you mean that he doesn't know what he's doing when appointing managers then, well, sort of, but for Ramos there was Redknapp, for Hoddle there was Jol. If you mean he doesn't know what he's doing running a football club, well that's a bit silly. The figures really do speak for themselves. Why did he fire Jol and hire Ramos in the first place? The money Spurs have spent under Levy, they should have done better than having to wait for us to drop the ball to break into the top 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Here's an article in the Mirror that sums up well what I, and many other Liverpool fans, think. Rafa is a very special manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 He had half as much to spend as Fergie/Chelsea's managers, and twice as much to do. In absolute terms, no his signings weren't good enough, but in value-for-money terms, he didn't do badly. He spent £60m more gross than Fergie from 04/05-08/09. And £60m less than Chelsea in the same period. If you count in 09/10 as well the figures are £90m more gross than Fergie and £38m less than Chelsea. It's not like he hasn't had money to spend is it? So what? Apples and oranges. In summer 04, Fergie already had a fantastic squad that had won the league the previous season. Rafa had a s*** squad full of dross like Diouf and Diao that Houllier had bought. Spurs have spent a similar amount to Liverpool over that period, yet it took us to drop the ball for them to catch us. The thing with Rafa though is that he has continued to buy s*** in some cases. And to be fair Spurs have spent more than you over those seasons, but they are on their 4th manager during this period. So, their board has apparently realised that their managers has bought players who weren't up to it. Much the same as what Rafa has done in some cases. I'm sure you understand this. It's the same with Chelsea really, they're on to their 5th manager in the same space of time. If you don't get the adequate results at a big club, you're out. You can bet your bottom dollar that Wenger would've been out on his arse as well if he had a net spend of over £100m with the same results they've had. At Spurs it's clearly the board that is their problem. Levy doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah, I do agree that Rafa has bought a lot of players who weren't good enough. Yet at the same time, he wasn't given the money to buy enough players who were good enough, anyway. You can talk all day about how much more he's spent than Fergie since Rafa arrived at LFC, or how many players he's bought and sold. The bottom line is, the £85m net he was given to spend was simply not enough money to build a squad that can compete with Chelsea's or Man Utd when you're starting with a squad like Rafa had in 2004. Levy doesn't know what he's doing??? Can't let that one slide. If you mean that he doesn't know what he's doing when appointing managers then, well, sort of, but for Ramos there was Redknapp, for Hoddle there was Jol. If you mean he doesn't know what he's doing running a football club, well that's a bit silly. The figures really do speak for themselves. Why did he fire Jol and hire Ramos in the first place? The money Spurs have spent under Levy, they should have done better than having to wait for us to drop the ball to break into the top 4. Possibly, though when Jol and Arnesen came in our squad was rather worse than yours under Houllier and needed far more money thrown at it, but that's not the point. It's not up to him to decide which players to buy, but to generate the money to buy them. With a relatively small stadium and a team that was struggling to get into Europe at all (let alone get CL money every year) he has managed to supply his managers with plenty of funding and got a great deal back in selling those players on. At the same time, he's kept the wage bill under control - more so than at any club except Arsenal and Man U. He knows what he's doing. It looks like he wanted Ramos in because he and his advisors felt Jol had taken us as far as he could. That might still be the case, and at time getting Ramos seemed like a bit of a coup. Personally, I think he fucked up, but even people who know what they're doing fuck up occasionally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 He had half as much to spend as Fergie/Chelsea's managers, and twice as much to do. In absolute terms, no his signings weren't good enough, but in value-for-money terms, he didn't do badly. He spent £60m more gross than Fergie from 04/05-08/09. And £60m less than Chelsea in the same period. If you count in 09/10 as well the figures are £90m more gross than Fergie and £38m less than Chelsea. It's not like he hasn't had money to spend is it? So what? Apples and oranges. In summer 04, Fergie already had a fantastic squad that had won the league the previous season. Rafa had a s*** squad full of dross like Diouf and Diao that Houllier had bought. Spurs have spent a similar amount to Liverpool over that period, yet it took us to drop the ball for them to catch us. The thing with Rafa though is that he has continued to buy s*** in some cases. And to be fair Spurs have spent more than you over those seasons, but they are on their 4th manager during this period. So, their board has apparently realised that their managers has bought players who weren't up to it. Much the same as what Rafa has done in some cases. I'm sure you understand this. It's the same with Chelsea really, they're on to their 5th manager in the same space of time. If you don't get the adequate results at a big club, you're out. You can bet your bottom dollar that Wenger would've been out on his arse as well if he had a net spend of over £100m with the same results they've had. At Spurs it's clearly the board that is their problem. Levy doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah, I do agree that Rafa has bought a lot of players who weren't good enough. Yet at the same time, he wasn't given the money to buy enough players who were good enough, anyway. You can talk all day about how much more he's spent than Fergie since Rafa arrived at LFC, or how many players he's bought and sold. The bottom line is, the £85m net he was given to spend was simply not enough money to build a squad that can compete with Chelsea's or Man Utd when you're starting with a squad like Rafa had in 2004. Levy doesn't know what he's doing??? Can't let that one slide. If you mean that he doesn't know what he's doing when appointing managers then, well, sort of, but for Ramos there was Redknapp, for Hoddle there was Jol. If you mean he doesn't know what he's doing running a football club, well that's a bit silly. The figures really do speak for themselves. Why did he fire Jol and hire Ramos in the first place? The money Spurs have spent under Levy, they should have done better than having to wait for us to drop the ball to break into the top 4. Possibly, though when Jol and Arnesen came in our squad was rather worse than yours under Houllier and needed far more money thrown at it, but that's not the point. It's not up to him to decide which players to buy, but to generate the money to buy them. With a relatively small stadium and a team that was struggling to get into Europe at all (let alone get CL money every year) he has managed to supply his managers with plenty of funding and got a great deal back in selling those players on. At the same time, he's kept the wage bill under control - more so than at any club except Arsenal and Man U. He knows what he's doing. It looks like he wanted Ramos in because he and his advisors felt Jol had taken us as far as he could. That might still be the case, and at time getting Ramos seemed like a bit of a coup. Personally, I think he fucked up, but even people who know what they're doing fuck up occasionally. There's no question he's done a great job on the financial side of things, none at all. It's just his football-side decisions that are iffy. It's just my opinion that most missteps Spurs have taken over the last 5-6 years have been ultimately attributable to Levy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Benitez has failed in the sense that he didn't win the League. However, that is now an extremely difficult task, as you have to finish above all three of Chelsea, Man United and Arsenal, so I don't see him as a bad manager. A lot this year was going to depend on Aquilani's ability to replace Alonso, and that's been Rafa's most costly misjudgement. Aquilani looks to have struggled, mentally and physically, with the English game. The other major question mark is this insistence on zonal marking at set pieces. Not many believe in that system, and I think it's cost them a few vital goals. That can make the difference between success and failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Sven Göran Eriksson says he's been a Liverpool fan all his life and it would be a dream come true to manage them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Athol Still just whores Svenny around these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Sven Göran Eriksson says he's been a Liverpool fan all his life and it would be a dream come true to manage them. Sounds like he's been taking PR tips from Robbie Keane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/gallery/liverpool-protest-usa/pa-photos_t_liverpool-fans-protest-anfield-hicks-gillett-photos-0406h.jpg http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/gallery/liverpool-protest-usa/pa-photos_t_liverpool-fans-protest-anfield-hicks-gillett-photos-0406c.jpg http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/gallery/liverpool-protest-usa/pa-photos_t_liverpool-fans-protest-anfield-hicks-gillett-photos-0406j.jpg http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/gallery/liverpool-protest-usa/pa-photos_t_liverpool-fans-protest-anfield-hicks-gillett-photos-0406g.jpg How the hell did this not get much media coverage..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Wow a whole 9 people, what a gathering. I'm disappointed tbh, where's the candle light vigil? Justice for the RAFA!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Hiddink not keen. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8723840.stm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Redknapp in the frame, lol @ spuds. Liverpool are planning a shock move for Tottenham manager Harry Redknapp, Sky Sports sources understand. The Anfield outfit are searching for a new man at the helm after Rafa Benitez's six-year reign was brought to an end by mutual consent on Thursday. And Spurs boss Redknapp has emerged as a leading contender for the Reds hierarchy as they aim to bring stability back to Merseyside. Liverpool legend Kenny Dalglish and managing director Christian Purslow have been charged with the task of identifying and selecting a replacement. Dalglish knows Redknapp well having brought his son Jamie to Anfield in January 1991 when he was at the helm of the five-time European champions and the two families have been close ever since. Reputation Redknapp's reputation as a transfer market wheeler-dealer has made him an attractive option for Liverpool, who are heavily in debt and could have only £5million to invest in new players if they do not trim their squad this summer. The former Bournemouth, West Ham, Southampton and Portsmouth manager has transformed the fortunes of the White Hart Lane club since replacing Juande Ramos in October 2008. Redknapp his since guided the club into the top four of the Premier League - ironically at the expense of Liverpool - and they have the prospect of UEFA Champions League football to look forward to next season. Spurs would be loath to lose the services of Redknapp, who has been granted an impressive transfer budget during his time in North London, and are sure to fight hard to keep the 63-year-old. Redknapp has only one year remaining on his current contract at White Hart Lane and talks over a new deal are yet to take place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandamninator Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Are these the same Sky Sports Sources linking Redknapp to some club in Dubai? Scousers should've appointed the Special One when he was campaigning in the media for the job after he won the CL with Porto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Redknapp would be mental to go to Liverpool not that he will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Redknapp at Liverpool? Ho'way. He'll take one look at the balance sheet, see they're already in the red: "O'rite me wor'k 'ere dun, 'am goin' home" --- Decided to have a quick comparison between Houllier and Rafa's success at Liverpool The Houllier Era 1999-00 Premier League: 4th FA Cup: 4th Round League Cup: Third Round 2000-01 Premier League: 3rd FA Cup: Winners League Cup: Winners UEFA Cup: Winners 2001-02 Premier League: 2nd FA Cup: 4th Round League Cup: 3rd Round UEFA Cup: Quarter Finals 2002-03 Premier League: 5th FA Cup: 4th Round League Cup: Winners Champions League: Group Stage 2003-04 Premier League: 4th FA Cup: 5th Round League Cup: 4th Round UEFA Cup: 4th Round Averages: Premier League Position: 3.6 FA Cups Won: 1 League Cups Won: 2 UEFA Cups Won: 1 Champions Leagues Won: 0 Rafa Era 2004-05 Premier League: 3rd FA Cup: Winners League Cup: 2005-06 Premier League: 3rd FA Cup: Winners League Cup: 3rd Round Champions League: 1st Knock Out Round 2006-07 Premier League: 3rd FA Cup: 3rd Round League Cup: Quarter Finals Champions League: Runners Up 2007-08 Premier League: 4th FA Cup: Quarter Finals League Cup: Quarter Finals Champions League: Semi Finals 2008-09 Premier League: 2nd FA Cup: 4th Round League Cup: 4th Round Champions League: Quarter Finals 2009-10 Premier League: 7th FA Cup: 3rd Round League Cup: 4th Round Champions League: Group Stage Europa League: Semi Final Averages Premier League: 3.8 FA Cups Won: 1 League Cups Won: 0 Champions Leagues Won: 1 UEFA/Europa Cups Won: 0 Houllier won more and only 'just' finished higher on average in the league (also the earlier seasons he was in charge we had one less league Champion's League spot). So the 1 cup and Champions League Rafa has achieved is a greater success in Scouser eyes? I guess the signing of Torres sways things too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Hiddink not keen. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8723840.stm Of course he's not keen. He could have had the Chelsea job long term if he wanted it- working with his mate Roman as his boss, shitloads of money to spend, the best squad in the country to work with, already settled in, liked by the players & fans etc etc He wanted a new challenge with a national team though. Of course, the arrogance and delusion of Liverpool fans meant loads of them seriously thought they could get Hiddink regardless. Europa League football, wantaway stars, average squad, financial problems and more underhand politics than Whitehall... how could he resist the mighty reds? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 How the hell did this not get much media coverage..? From the streets of Teheran errr... Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 My god Liverpool fans are deluded - there I said it. This is their fall back article to prove all doubters wrong: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brian-reade/Why-Rafa-Benitez-leaves-Liverpool-as-a-legend-not-the-failure-his-history-rewriting-critics-insist-The-Brian-Reade-Column-article448527.html I was posting about Liverpool on another forum and a Scouser said this: You would do well to read this - please do its an awesome article Awesome because its written by a Scouser (Brian Reade) with his own damage control agenda, abusing his public platform to do so. But to paint his six-year reign as an unmitigated disaster, sustained only by the over-sentimentalising of Istanbul, is analysis at its most skewed and cringeful. By 2004 Liverpool had been relegated to the status of European also-rans. Benitez made the club a genuine world force again. Really? A world force again? Please, the extra Champions League slot allocated to the Premier League gave Liverpool their exposure in Europe again. They averaged 3rd position throughout their Premier League history, so it was hardly Rafas doing. He inherited a team already capable of getting into Europe. And he did so despite having the 5th highest wage bill in the league, the 5th costliest squad, the 5th biggest stadium capacity and a net annual transfer spend of £15million. How is doing all he achieved classed as 'despite' having the 5th highest wage bill? That's hardly a curse. Surely that shows that he's spent a lot of money to try and achieve the success? If it had been done with say the 18th or even 10th highest wage bill - that would have been a miracle. Which should have made experts ask why Liverpool were ever considered a nailed-on top four side under Benitez, especially when the boardroom was mired in anarchy. No, experts would have said anything below 5th would have been terrible in relation to wages spent. Ah, they say, but he’d long lost the players and the board. So why have Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Daniel Agger, Dirk Kuyt and Pepe Reina signed new long-term contracts within the past year? Why last August did managing director Christian Purslow do interviews purring over Benitez and how he was integral to the club’s future? They thought they were going to win the league, and no doubt renegotiated to have high bonus structure, and secure value to their name to be transferred at a later date - rather than allow key players to have 1/2 years left on their contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Really? A world force again? Please, the extra Champions League slot allocated to the Premier League gave Liverpool their exposure in Europe again. They averaged 3rd position throughout their Premier League history, so it was hardly Rafas doing. He inherited a team already capable of getting into Europe. Lol. Talk about a straw man. Since when have being capable of getting into Europe and being capable of regularly reaching the semis of the CL been even vaguely the same thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Really? A world force again? Please, the extra Champions League slot allocated to the Premier League gave Liverpool their exposure in Europe again. They averaged 3rd position throughout their Premier League history, so it was hardly Rafas doing. He inherited a team already capable of getting into Europe. Lol. Talk about a straw man. Since when have being capable of getting into Europe and being capable of regularly reaching the semis of the CL been even vaguely the same thing? EDIT: 3 Semi's out of 6 - so you got their half of the time, not regular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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