JH Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 There is nothing Harper could have done about that goal, so stop trying to find something to pin on him. If there is nothing Harper could of done for a shot from way out I think it is time to recall Shay, Shay Given would have done the same, as would Cech, Van Der Sar, Buffon......... At the end of the day, Harper did what he could. It was poor defending and shit attacking mixed with a good, hearty Derby performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 There is nothing Harper could have done about that goal, so stop trying to find something to pin on him. If there is nothing Harper could of done for a shot from way out I think it is time to recall Shay, Shay Given would have done the same, as would Cech, Van Der Sar, Buffon......... At the end of the day, Harper did what he could. It was poor defending and shit attacking mixed with a good, hearty Derby performance. Recall Roeder! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Harper did what he could I will have to watch it again but from he just seemed to stare at the ball. He was still on go-slow for all kicks even though we were chasing the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karjala Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Not too worried about the defensive side of things, a wonder/freak goal out of nothing, but seriously, that midfield creates and will continue to create nowt, especially if we leave our attack the same as tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Harper did what he could I will have to watch it again but from he just seemed to stare at the ball. He was still on go-slow for all kicks even though we were chasing the game. The ball dipped and didn't look like it was gonna hit the top corner. It was a flukey shot which hit the back of the net, it happens. I agree there but my comment was about the goal, not his performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fishman09 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 gutted and disapointed but there we are...what can you do except weep lol oh and this by bluegeordie a few posts up: ' 2) Smith is lost and ineffective in midfield, and having him run around doing an "American Psycho" impersonation is unlikely to open up opposition defences ' superb fish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Harper - 6 - OK performance Taylor - 5 - Solid defensively, very poor ball control on the touchline on numerous occassions, similar to Ramage and Huntington. Cacapa - 6 - Solid performance, plenty of interceptions, no defensive errors at all. Bit of a spectator today though. Rozenhal - 4 - Beaten too easily in the air and made a few glaring errors, eg getting caught in possession needlessly. N'Zogbia - 4 - Caught out of position several times, woeful free kicks and crosses, very poor passing. Smith - 3 - Typically anonymous performance, combined with typical over the top challenges. Absolute liability on top of being a mediocre midfielder. Butt - 3 - Woeful performance on the ball. This is why I hoped he wouldnt be captain this season. Really needs to be dropped Geremi - 5 - Decent, but plays the easy ball at every opportunity. More of a midfield poser than a general. But at least hes consistent when it comes to controlling the ball under pressure and finding a teamate. Milner - 4 - Tried hard, but thats about it. Lost out all day to the fullback, very poor and delayed crossing. Owen - 4 - Anonymous. Ameobi - 2 - Worst player on the pitch by a country mile. Did nothing except for: offsides, rapist first touches, and give away free kicks, particularly when defenders were under pressure and bound to give possession back to us. Shocking performance. Only thing stopping him from getting a 1 was a deliberate hand ball or similar retarded error that would lead to a goal being conceded. Cant believe Big Sam didnt take off Ameobi, Butt or Smith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 some points: i've changed my mind about smith, i used to think he was an average player and shit signing, now i think he's a shit player and an abysmal signing, about the level of a luque or marcelino so far. as a midfielder he's a poor man's scott parker so should never play anywhere else but upfront. taylor did 10 times more going forward and that is saying something considering he is a centre-half. people criticising Ameobi are maybe missing the point, the blame should go to Allardyce for his simplistic and ignorant "big man, small man" tactics. ameobi might be tall and strong but he is no target man, in fact, he's pretty woeful in this position. essentially, he is the same type of player as Owen, a good striker in the penalty area, can pop up with a few goals, crap general play and the further away from the box he is, the worse he becomes. yet Allardyce has been fooled by his physique and thought he could play as a support striker, he can't. perhaps if Allardyce had EVER seen Ameobi play as support striker, say alongside shearer or martins, he'd see that he looks awful. hopefully Allardyce has learned his lesson but i doubt it. Zoggy and Milner tried the hardest to create for us but both had poor games. Zoggy's final ball was terrible but he's coming from left-back so is often forced into a rash, early ball by the mass ranks in front of him. he should've been pushed up fairly early on, sticking milner on the right, but it never really happened. lack of pace is endemic in this side, milner and smith down the wings? jesus wept! as Baggio pointed out earlier, Owen thrives on pace, whether it comes from an attacking midfielder, a winger or a support striker, stretching teams, causing disorganisation and opening space. there was none of that tonight. anyone who has seen Derby play can see they are uncomfortable with pace yet Martins is left on the bench. Derby are vulnerable to quick attacks, either a forward pass played down the middle or a surging run, Jenas for spurs earlier in the season for instance. there was none of this from us, the central midfielders never pressed on and rarely if ever offered forward passes. of course owen and ameobi didn't offer much movement or peeling away from their markers. If Viduka is out for the next match then Martins should perhaps start with Owen, at least he can work the channels (as he is increasingly doing under allardyce) and pull sides apart with pace. as well as drive from midfield, we're also lacking vision and class on the ball. others have echoed how awful Butt was, not just in a defensive sense but his attempts at canny chips and through balls were embarrasing. the corner flag doesn't play for newcastle nicky! Geremi can move the ball about well but should never be relied upon to be our main creator of chances, he's a watercarrier, no more. Rozehnal struggled really, really badly tonight. perhaps some might be suprised but ive noticed little weaknesses in his game in the previous matches so tonight, against a pumped up, dirty, physical side, is no shock. also, people are saying that it is only a few games into Allardyce's reign and that it is obvious that not all problems will be solved and that we're in transition. true, but many of tonights problems have been caused by Allardyce's influence, for instance the two defensive midfielders, or smith down the right, would dyer or solano put in such a poor performance there? this game puts the other results into context, we've only played convincingly against bolton, cloggers who on early form are one of the most hopeless and uninspired sides in the league. Good post mate, I agree with all of that except the part about Rozenhal who I thought had a decent game. You're right about Allardyce being ignorant and insisting on playing the big man/little man combo, the only reason he does it is so he can continuously lump long balls up field like he done at Bolton for Kevin Davies, the worrying thing for me is I'm not sure Allardyce has it in him to move away from this and keep the ball moving across the floor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 If Allardyce ever starts Smith on the right of midfield again I'll be absolutely gobsmacked. Technically and tactically that was more Roeder/Souness football than I'd care to see. And I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more of it as BSA sets out to 'not lose' away from home. Didn't work though, and there's many more times it won't if he insists on this brand of 'tactics'. It's all very well setting out to create a strong defensive unit, though clearly it's not quite there yet, but you still need a spark of creativity, an attacking outlet. Persisting with the same set up into the second half suggests to me he is too hesitant, or lacking the imagination, to change things. Something we villified Roeder for. I can't help but think if Keegan had had that exact same squad to choose from we would have kept a clean sheet due to Derby being so damned busy defending - and picking the ball out of their own net a few times. I'm still pleased he's manager, for the moment, but I can't handle football like that. Woeful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 tmonkey: 'Geremi - 5 - Decent, but plays the easy ball at every opportunity. More of a midfield poser than a general. But at least hes consistent when it comes to controlling the ball under pressure and finding a teamate.' Spot on, imo. I remember someone posting stats on here about how Geremi made x more number of passes that found a teammate than anyone else. Except they were all sideways or backwards. People give Butt stick for his passing, but at least he attempts creative forward passes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I rate Allardyce but if he ever plays Smith in midfield and Ameobi upfront again, I'll seriously consider his ability to manage a football team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sodden Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Harper - 6 - OK performance Taylor - 5 - Solid defensively, very poor ball control on the touchline on numerous occassions, similar to Ramage and Huntington. Cacapa - 6 - Solid performance, plenty of interceptions, no defensive errors at all. Bit of a spectator today though. Rozenhal - 4 - Beaten too easily in the air and made a few glaring errors, eg getting caught in possession needlessly. N'Zogbia - 4 - Caught out of position several times, woeful free kicks and crosses, very poor passing. Smith - 3 - Typically anonymous performance, combined with typical over the top challenges. Absolute liability on top of being a mediocre midfielder. Butt - 3 - Woeful performance on the ball. This is why I hoped he wouldnt be captain this season. Really needs to be dropped Geremi - 5 - Decent, but plays the easy ball at every opportunity. More of a midfield poser than a general. But at least hes consistent when it comes to controlling the ball under pressure and finding a teamate. Milner - 4 - Tried hard, but thats about it. Lost out all day to the fullback, very poor and delayed crossing. Owen - 4 - Anonymous. Ameobi - 2 - Worst player on the pitch by a country mile. Did nothing except for: offsides, rapist first touches, and give away free kicks, particularly when defenders were under pressure and bound to give possession back to us. Shocking performance. Only thing stopping him from getting a 1 was a deliberate hand ball or similar retarded error that would lead to a goal being conceded. Cant believe Big Sam didnt take off Ameobi, Butt or Smith. Spot on, I couldnt disagree with any of those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 These are the types of games that make me miss Nobby. Milner has ideas going forward, but his crossing still needs a lot of work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I rate Allardyce but if he ever plays Smith in midfield and Ameobi upfront again, I'll seriously consider his ability to manage a football team. To be fair, I think we're being a tad too harsh on Smith. In a 4-3-3 system, I think hed do fine as a backup/alternative central midfielder who's job is merely to close down aggressively and kick lumps out of the opposition whilst getting away with it - but not alongside midfielders like Butt and Geremi who lack any creativity or attacking ambition whatsoever. A bit like Everton prior to this year so to speak, creativity from the likes of Arteta with the grit of Phil Neville. Only as an option for specific games though. Ameobi on the other hand is just a footballing retard - theres no hope for him. If its possible that some people are smart footballers on the pitch, then its also possible that some people are just plain stupid. Ameobi is one of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Tbf to Allardyce, who would you rather have played tonight ahead of Smith? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I'd have played Taylor LB, Beye RB, Zoggy LW, Milner RW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Can someone please tell Milner he doesn't have to do a step over everytime he gets the ball out wide. If you have a bit of room just cross the ball first time. Terrible habit he has at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Tbf to Allardyce, who would you rather have played tonight ahead of Smith? Milner down the right, Zog down the left, Enrique at left back, Smith on the bench with Martins up front (or vice versa). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Can someone please tell Milner he doesn't have to do a step over everytime he gets the ball out wide. If you have a bit of room just cross the ball first time. Terrible habit he has at the moment. I think it's because he's on his weaker foot, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shaun11177 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Said it before, will say it again. Give Allardyce 100 lines-Smith is not a midfielder-never has been never will be. Roeder and Souness got blasted for been tactically inept and this is no different. This business of i bought him for 6m so i have to play him is stupid, if Smith was promised a starting place then he shouldnt have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guinness Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Shocking performance. The midfield was extremely poor, Smith should not play for us in midfield again. We sorely lacked any sort of forward drive from midfield today, Geremi and Butt we're shite. Geremi's set pieces we're woeful, can't even clear the first man from corners. I thought Harper could have at least made an effort for their goal, time for Shay to return. No idea how Shola lasted the 90 minutes, or how he's a professional footballer for that matter. N'Zogbia was poor as was Milner, both looked to be having off days. Taylor at right back doesn't work, thought we were poor defensively as well, Derby should have scored more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 no balance in the team tonight at all, we've brought in good players but at the moment we're playing with NO full backs, NO wingers, NO midfielders that can drive on and NO target man. that doesnt leave us with much, i wont say anything about ameobi apart from he's not improved since he came into the team, owen never wastes a pass imo and is a different class to the rest of them, zoggy needs to put some studs in his boots, he was the ONLY one that kept falling over, have a word sam. apart from that i've no-one to single out really, just a generally shit performance, we need serious investment going forward, looking forward to barton coming back but ultimately thats still central. i'd love to see sam play given/harper beye roz cacapa enrique milner geremi faye n'zogbia owen martins against west ham, get the new boys in and shake things up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Abysmally brainless tactics etc etc etc Gutless gormless performance. The laughing stocks of the Prem leave us being laughed at even more by covering us in the footie equivalent of custard pie. Roeder was chased for this kind of performance. This is as bad as the Wigan debacles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hodgson09 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 problem has moved from defense to midfield. no creativity, whatsoever. Cannot wait until Barton is fit. Why didn't Enrique or Beye start, freeing up N'zogbia to move into midfield? Early days yet though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Something about the line up tells me Allardyce actively went for the 0-0. Anything more would have been a bonus. As of yet, I'm not complaining. We lost. Big f****** deal. Nothing we're not used to. How the manager and players react after this is very telling of how things will go this season. A tepid affair on our part, but you knew that from the line up. Patience patience patience. Some of you on here are unbelievable!!! Fickle muppets! Patience for f****** what exactly? If I have patience will an unbalanced mishmash of a team selection playing hopeless hit and hope Football suddenly become great? That game sent alarm bells ringing for me personally. I could forgive Allardyce starting with that team, but to continue with the same pathetic formulae right until the end worries the f*** out of me. There's no point in hoping he'll realise his mistake and change things for the next game either, not when his idea of fixing the problem 70 minutes into that shambles of a performance is to bring on a right back and defensive midfielder! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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