Isn't it about time we had an argument about THE BOARD?!?!?!?!?!

[Skirge]

When a club has a history if paying out big fee's for players then other clubs tend to hold out a bit longer hoping we will up our offer, rightly or wrongly Mort has decided not to let clubs hold us to ransom over players.

It is however easier to get players to come if you are an attractive club that can offer glory and not just big wages, a club can then end up being sort of  forced into agreeing a fee once their player makes it clear they want to leave. I do not see to many players jumping to come here so most clubs we try to do  business with will be able to hold out if they want. we will be fighting with much bigger clubs from around Europe for players if you believe the "big business in the summer" hype its not going to be so easy to fight off the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Chelski, Liverpool, Barca, Real, AC, Juve, Inter (just to mention a few) unless we are willing to pay out stupid wages to mercenary players.

I am not trying to be negative but its not going to be as easy as some seem to think it will be..

[Slugsy]

Completely agree about Barnes - if we thought he was a good player who would improve the team, why did we not buy him instead of bartering over what really is loose change in the premiership.

[Shearergol]

When a club has a history if paying out big fee's for players then other clubs tend to hold out a bit longer hoping we will up our offer, rightly or wrongly Mort has decided not to let clubs hold us to ransom over players.

It is however easier to get players to come if you are an attractive club that can offer glory and not just big wages, a club can then end up being sort of  forced into agreeing a fee once their player makes it clear they want to leave. I do not see to many players jumping to come here so most clubs we try to do  business with will be able to hold out if they want. we will be fighting with much bigger clubs from around Europe for players if you believe the "big business in the summer" hype its not going to be so easy to fight off the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Chelski, Liverpool, Barca, Real, AC, Juve, Inter (just to mention a few) unless we are willing to pay out stupid wages to mercenary players.

I am not trying to be negative but its not going to be as easy as some seem to think it will be..

 

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

[Dave]

The Barnes 'bid' was indeed bizarre. I'd like to hear Keegan's take on that, because it doesn't stack up.

[Dave]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

[Shearergol]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

[Dave]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

 

Probably. And the better they are, the harder they are to prize away from their current clubs. Especially in the last two weeks of January.

[WhatTheFunk]

Are you suggesting we never had a single disappointing transfer window/summer under the old lot?

 

not suggesting anything Dave. I find the hypocrisy of standards - which boils down completely to personalities - quite amazing.

 

Simple fact is that I've seen this before. Unambitious board who aren't prepared to compete with the winning clubs but attempt to pacify fans with talk of "youth systems", "the future plans"....blah blah, other such bollocks.

 

Simple fact also is that you need players the top teams want if you want to challenge them, never mind beat them. Particularly incredible is the fact that Keegan showed everybody this the first time round. I don't think Mort has the slightest clue about football and how it works. They / he [interesting one this, will it be Ashleys fault as major shareholder or Morts as chairman if Keegan fucks off or fails] will have to catch on quickly or Keegan will put them under pressure or bugger off. Quite right too if he does under those circumstances.

 

I simply don't buy the people who are now supporting this deluded "kids policy" instead of spending money, when all we heard every other week under the old board was "splash the cash you greedy fat b******"

 

Amazing.

 

The sooner we are back in europe the better. And if Ashley and Mort don't realise this, for me they can both bugger off.

 

 

 

Right. I think it's now plainly obvious that your agenda is merely to attack the new board regardless. When you say things like "people are supporting the kids policy INSTEAD of buying big players" etc....

 

That's a load of bollocks LM and you know it. People are saying that it will do us no harm to try and uncover a few gems in the process, until we are able to attract the Berbatovs of this world!! No one is saying the board to should aim to produce an entire first team from youth talent!!! But if one or two turn out to be useful, then why not?

 

Amazing

 

Shame, but I think for a long time the agenda of numerous people was simply to attack the old board whatever they did regardless. And still is, in fact.

 

Buying up the best kids and ignoring the present is nothing other than taking a punt at gaining success on the cheap, and doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

 

I've tried to tell you it doesn't work, because it hasn't in the past at pretty much any other club plus common sense tells you it isn't so simple as this - so if you think differently, then of course thats your opinion. I look forward to seeing your u-turn.

 

 

 

Do you mean when we tried it with Bassedas, Cort, Bramble etc...?

 

You could look at Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert if you like, but it wouldn't suit your "opinion" would it.

 

As you are unable to distinguish the difference between the board backing their managers, and where it becomes the managers responsibility to make good judgements rather than poor ones [bobby Robson too] there is really no point in attempting to explain this to you.

 

 

 

You've got me all wrong, and you are still seemingly reluctant to read my posts properly, and answer to "facts" you pointed out.

 

Bellamy and Robert are EXACTLY the type of signings we should be making. As we did with Ferdinand, Ginola and Batty. Quality players, in their prime, that would have walked into the top clubs at the time. I am in no way disputing that whatsoever.

 

What I'm saying is that for some reason, we haven't gone out and bought these players in the summer (for somewhat obvious reasons being the takeover and big sam's uncertainty over his own future and the assessment the new owners felt they needed to make). We couldn't sign this type of player in January due to the arrival of a new manager, and little time left in the window. Now...would it have been better not to have signed anyone at all? I'm in no way arguing that we shouldn't go after the top players. But what I'm saying is that if for whatever reason we didn't or couldn't, then there is no harm in bringing in some youth, and taking a chance that one or two might turn out better than average. They could either be integrated into the first team, or sold at a profit. WHAT'S THE HARM IN THAT? (question in caps so you don't miss it).

 

As for your argument, which you continue to avoid answering to.....i listed the players you said were youth players we bought the last time we went down the "kids policy" route. I responded by saying that those were NOT youth team signings, and that some were even above 20 at the time and established internationals/first team players.

 

Please read the post carefully so you don't misinterpret what I'm saying, and give a fair response, as I'm trying to have a debate. If you choose not to, then don't waste my time or yours. I'm hoping....but I'm not holding my breath.

 

EDIT: Oh and by the way, you conveniently ignore the FACT that we made a bid for Jonathan Woodgate this window. A big player in his prime.

[madras]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

[Shearergol]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

[madras]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

[Shearergol]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

 

Ok, I'll put it another way. He's better than all of those.

[NE5]

The attractive thing is a load of bollocks. Players come for the money, and that's pretty much it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that Keegan obviously couldn't get the level of upgrades he wanted, for whatever reason.

 

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Obviously money is a massive factor, but if a player sees a struggling club heading the wrong way in the division, they're more than likely going to turn the move down.

 

Players want to play in Europe, or get first team football. Our best bet is to find the players from the top clubs who can't get games. However; Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa, Man City and Everton are all better prospects than us at the moment, despite the wages we're able to offer. (having said that, the low bid for Barnes shows me that we're more likely to keep a closer check on the budget now, so we might not be offering big wages anymore either).

 

How did Boro attract Alves? Or any of their players for that matter.

 

Those clubs are in better shape than us because of Allardyce (and their respective managers), not the board IMO.

 

Did we even try for Alves?

 

My personal opinion (which I made clear the day we appointed Keegan) is that we've signed nobody because of the timing of his appointment. Whoever is to blame (this board, the old board, Keegan, Allardyce) I really think we've made a huge huge mistake by not signing some quality (especially to play in midfield). I know people laugh when relegation is mentioned, but it really looks a bit ominous on current form.

 

I've said similar before myself; I agree with you about the timing of the managerial change. And I agree it's a mistake not to improve the midfield, just not the degree of linking it to a relegation battle. Or in NE5's case, linking it to some overall lack of ambition by the board and as an excuse to slate them. The recovery mission was always going to be difficult for Keegan, but I think we'll be reasonably comfortable this season.

 

Ashley has to show me what he's all about in the summer.

 

Dave. I think lack of ambition is the biggest reason to slate a board possible. So I'm slagging a perceived lack of ambition. This is their role in the football club. And NUFC boards should back their managers like the boards at the likes of Liverpool, at least. What is difficult about this, and why do you think its wrong of me to "slate" them for it.

 

There's no differing standards here between the current board and the new board from me, although there quite clearly is with numerous other people, including yourself.

 

My view is pretty straightforward. They show ambition for the club,  or they get deserved criticism. We needed some ambitiion in this window. We aren't in a good position. The merits of improving our position now and making us more attractive in the summer has been laid out too. Its undeniable. Those who can't see it, simply don't want to as they have some reason for not criticising Ashley and Mort is how I see it, when they were quick to slate the old board.

 

There's only one agenda here mate.

 

 

[WhatTheFunk]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

 

Ok, I'll put it another way. He's better than all of those.

 

No disrespect Gol...but that's bullshit.

 

Saying that he MAY turn out to be better is probably a fairer statement. All the players mentioned above (bar Smith) are full internationals (or have been) in that position on the field. Barnes is still a relative unknown in top flight football.

[Baggio]

NE5 - Would you prefer Keegan to sign players now that he doesn't really want for the sake of it or would you prefer him to wait until the Summer to get the players he wants when they will be available? 10 bonus points if you can answer it without mentioning Shepherd or the old boards.

 

Can you answer this please, NE5?

 

This is the 3rd time I've asked you.

[NE5]

Are you suggesting we never had a single disappointing transfer window/summer under the old lot?

 

not suggesting anything Dave. I find the hypocrisy of standards - which boils down completely to personalities - quite amazing.

 

Simple fact is that I've seen this before. Unambitious board who aren't prepared to compete with the winning clubs but attempt to pacify fans with talk of "youth systems", "the future plans"....blah blah, other such bollocks.

 

Simple fact also is that you need players the top teams want if you want to challenge them, never mind beat them. Particularly incredible is the fact that Keegan showed everybody this the first time round. I don't think Mort has the slightest clue about football and how it works. They / he [interesting one this, will it be Ashleys fault as major shareholder or Morts as chairman if Keegan fucks off or fails] will have to catch on quickly or Keegan will put them under pressure or bugger off. Quite right too if he does under those circumstances.

 

I simply don't buy the people who are now supporting this deluded "kids policy" instead of spending money, when all we heard every other week under the old board was "splash the cash you greedy fat b******"

 

Amazing.

 

The sooner we are back in europe the better. And if Ashley and Mort don't realise this, for me they can both bugger off.

 

 

 

Right. I think it's now plainly obvious that your agenda is merely to attack the new board regardless. When you say things like "people are supporting the kids policy INSTEAD of buying big players" etc....

 

That's a load of bollocks LM and you know it. People are saying that it will do us no harm to try and uncover a few gems in the process, until we are able to attract the Berbatovs of this world!! No one is saying the board to should aim to produce an entire first team from youth talent!!! But if one or two turn out to be useful, then why not?

 

Amazing

 

Shame, but I think for a long time the agenda of numerous people was simply to attack the old board whatever they did regardless. And still is, in fact.

 

Buying up the best kids and ignoring the present is nothing other than taking a punt at gaining success on the cheap, and doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

 

I've tried to tell you it doesn't work, because it hasn't in the past at pretty much any other club plus common sense tells you it isn't so simple as this - so if you think differently, then of course thats your opinion. I look forward to seeing your u-turn.

 

 

 

Do you mean when we tried it with Bassedas, Cort, Bramble etc...?

 

You could look at Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert if you like, but it wouldn't suit your "opinion" would it.

 

As you are unable to distinguish the difference between the board backing their managers, and where it becomes the managers responsibility to make good judgements rather than poor ones [bobby Robson too] there is really no point in attempting to explain this to you.

 

 

 

You've got me all wrong, and you are still seemingly reluctant to read my posts properly, and answer to "facts" you pointed out.

 

Bellamy and Robert are EXACTLY the type of signings we should be making. As we did with Ferdinand, Ginola and Batty. Quality players, in their prime, that would have walked into the top clubs at the time. I am in no way disputing that whatsoever.

 

What I'm saying is that for some reason, we haven't gone out and bought these players in the summer (for somewhat obvious reasons being the takeover and big sam's uncertainty over his own future and the assessment the new owners felt they needed to make). We couldn't sign this type of player in January due to the arrival of a new manager, and little time left in the window. Now...would it have been better not to have signed anyone at all? I'm in no way arguing that we shouldn't go after the top players. But what I'm saying is that if for whatever reason we didn't or couldn't, then there is no harm in bringing in some youth, and taking a chance that one or two might turn out better than average. They could either be integrated into the first team, or sold at a profit. WHAT'S THE HARM IN THAT? (question in caps so you don't miss it).

 

As for your argument, which you continue to avoid answering to.....i listed the players you said were youth players we bought the last time we went down the "kids policy" route. I responded by saying that those were NOT youth team signings, and that some were even above 20 at the time and established internationals/first team players.

 

Please read the post carefully so you don't misinterpret what I'm saying, and give a fair response, as I'm trying to have a debate. If you choose not to, then don't waste my time or yours. I'm hoping....but I'm not holding my breath.

 

EDIT: Oh and by the way, you conveniently ignore the FACT that we made a bid for Jonathan Woodgate this window. A big player in his prime.

 

I've answered your post. I would also point out that we didn't buy Woodgate, unlike last time, also in the January window.

 

Perhaps, as has been pointed out, Woodgate saw Spurs as a more progressive club than us ? How does that grab you, because they certainly weren't when we were run by the halls and Shepherd. And strangely too, they were more progressive than we were before the halls and Shepherd.

 

Work it out for yourself, but don't let personalities or the facts I've just told you, affect your "opinion"

 

 

[Shearergol]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

 

Ok, I'll put it another way. He's better than all of those.

 

No disrespect Gol...but that's bullshit.

 

Saying that he MAY turn out to be better is probably a fairer statement. All the players mentioned above (bar Smith) are full internationals (or have been) in that position on the field. Barnes is still a relative unknown in top flight football.

 

Which of them do you currently rate as better players than Barnes? It doesn't matter how good they used to be (Geremi for one used to be fantastic in Spain), if they're shite now, they're shite now, simple as.

 

Butt is useless - I struggle to see what he actually does. Emre needs shipping off ASAP, as he's done nothing for us since signing, other than a couple of wonder goals (sounds a bit like Martins).

 

The only one who I'd keep is Barton, and I'm yet to see any football ability from him since signing (which is strange as he was so good at City).

 

Barnes would get in the team in front of all of those players at the moment.

[madras]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

 

Ok, I'll put it another way. He's better than all of those.

 

No disrespect Gol...but that's bullshit.

 

Saying that he MAY turn out to be better is probably a fairer statement. All the players mentioned above (bar Smith) are full internationals (or have been) in that position on the field. Barnes is still a relative unknown in top flight football.

 

Which of them do you currently rate as better players than Barnes? It doesn't matter how good they used to be (Geremi for one used to be fantastic in Spain), if they're s**** now, they're s**** now, simple as.

 

Butt is useless - I struggle to see what he actually does. Emre needs shipping off ASAP, as he's done nothing for us since signing, other than a couple of wonder goals (sounds a bit like Martins).

 

The only one who I'd keep is Barton, and I'm yet to see any football ability from him since signing (which is strange as he was so good at City).

 

Barnes would get in the team in front of all of those players at the moment.

butt,emre, n'zogbia would all be in centre mid before barnes right now.

[Baggio]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

 

Ok, I'll put it another way. He's better than all of those.

 

No disrespect Gol...but that's bullshit.

 

Saying that he MAY turn out to be better is probably a fairer statement. All the players mentioned above (bar Smith) are full internationals (or have been) in that position on the field. Barnes is still a relative unknown in top flight football.

 

Which of them do you currently rate as better players than Barnes? It doesn't matter how good they used to be (Geremi for one used to be fantastic in Spain), if they're shite now, they're shite now, simple as.

 

Butt is useless - I struggle to see what he actually does. Emre needs shipping off ASAP, as he's done nothing for us since signing, other than a couple of wonder goals (sounds a bit like Martins).

 

The only one who I'd keep is Barton, and I'm yet to see any football ability from him since signing (which is strange as he was so good at City).

 

Barnes would get in the team in front of all of those players at the moment.

 

Emre and Barton will offer us more now than Barnes will, the lad can't even get a regular start at Derby although he clearly has the potential to be a good player in the future.

[Shearergol]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

 

Ok, I'll put it another way. He's better than all of those.

 

No disrespect Gol...but that's bullshit.

 

Saying that he MAY turn out to be better is probably a fairer statement. All the players mentioned above (bar Smith) are full internationals (or have been) in that position on the field. Barnes is still a relative unknown in top flight football.

 

Which of them do you currently rate as better players than Barnes? It doesn't matter how good they used to be (Geremi for one used to be fantastic in Spain), if they're shite now, they're shite now, simple as.

 

Butt is useless - I struggle to see what he actually does. Emre needs shipping off ASAP, as he's done nothing for us since signing, other than a couple of wonder goals (sounds a bit like Martins).

 

The only one who I'd keep is Barton, and I'm yet to see any football ability from him since signing (which is strange as he was so good at City).

 

Barnes would get in the team in front of all of those players at the moment.

 

Emre and Barton will offer us more now than Barnes will, the lad can't even get a regular start at Derby although he clearly has the potential to be a good player in the future.

 

The same thing is said about Emre every single time he comes back from injury or suspension.

 

The sad thing is, it's saying much more about how poor our midfield really is than how good Barnes is. Personally I think we should be looking at much better players than him, but if we signed him he'd certainly (in my opinion) be playing.

[Parky]

Which is essentially my point when people spout on about "we'll spend big in summer". I'm afraid it won't be any different.

 

Spend big =/= spend well.

 

You HAVE to spend big to attract the players who will be good enough to improve us. Again, the Barnes deal has proved that.

would barnes have improved us ? i wouldn't have put him inour starting 11 and derby fans don't reckon he's kicked on since looking good last season in an easier league. i don't even think he has been an auto first choice for them this season so it just maybe that the powers that be didn't judge £3mill a decent price for his potential.

 

as for spending etc and attracting players. man city seemed to do it at the start of this season.

 

Man City had the advantage that although Sven seemed to be hated by England fans, he was still a manager players wanted to play for. Hopefully Keegan will have that still too.

 

Barnes would certainly improve our midfield. Taking Emre, Butt, Barton, Geremi and Smith out of central midfield would improve any team.

aye righto

 

Ok, I'll put it another way. He's better than all of those.

 

No disrespect Gol...but that's bullshit.

 

Saying that he MAY turn out to be better is probably a fairer statement. All the players mentioned above (bar Smith) are full internationals (or have been) in that position on the field. Barnes is still a relative unknown in top flight football.

 

Which of them do you currently rate as better players than Barnes? It doesn't matter how good they used to be (Geremi for one used to be fantastic in Spain), if they're shite now, they're shite now, simple as.

 

Butt is useless - I struggle to see what he actually does. Emre needs shipping off ASAP, as he's done nothing for us since signing, other than a couple of wonder goals (sounds a bit like Martins).

 

The only one who I'd keep is Barton, and I'm yet to see any football ability from him since signing (which is strange as he was so good at City).

 

Barnes would get in the team in front of all of those players at the moment.

 

£2m+ was crazy money who do you think we are Barcelona?!! lol

 

Totally agree with you btw.

 

Emre? Creative? KK should get his boots on.

[Skirge]

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[WhatTheFunk]

Are you suggesting we never had a single disappointing transfer window/summer under the old lot?

 

not suggesting anything Dave. I find the hypocrisy of standards - which boils down completely to personalities - quite amazing.

 

Simple fact is that I've seen this before. Unambitious board who aren't prepared to compete with the winning clubs but attempt to pacify fans with talk of "youth systems", "the future plans"....blah blah, other such bollocks.

 

Simple fact also is that you need players the top teams want if you want to challenge them, never mind beat them. Particularly incredible is the fact that Keegan showed everybody this the first time round. I don't think Mort has the slightest clue about football and how it works. They / he [interesting one this, will it be Ashleys fault as major shareholder or Morts as chairman if Keegan fucks off or fails] will have to catch on quickly or Keegan will put them under pressure or bugger off. Quite right too if he does under those circumstances.

 

I simply don't buy the people who are now supporting this deluded "kids policy" instead of spending money, when all we heard every other week under the old board was "splash the cash you greedy fat b******"

 

Amazing.

 

The sooner we are back in europe the better. And if Ashley and Mort don't realise this, for me they can both bugger off.

 

 

 

Right. I think it's now plainly obvious that your agenda is merely to attack the new board regardless. When you say things like "people are supporting the kids policy INSTEAD of buying big players" etc....

 

That's a load of bollocks LM and you know it. People are saying that it will do us no harm to try and uncover a few gems in the process, until we are able to attract the Berbatovs of this world!! No one is saying the board to should aim to produce an entire first team from youth talent!!! But if one or two turn out to be useful, then why not?

 

Amazing

 

Shame, but I think for a long time the agenda of numerous people was simply to attack the old board whatever they did regardless. And still is, in fact.

 

Buying up the best kids and ignoring the present is nothing other than taking a punt at gaining success on the cheap, and doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

 

I've tried to tell you it doesn't work, because it hasn't in the past at pretty much any other club plus common sense tells you it isn't so simple as this - so if you think differently, then of course thats your opinion. I look forward to seeing your u-turn.

 

 

 

Do you mean when we tried it with Bassedas, Cort, Bramble etc...?

 

You could look at Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert if you like, but it wouldn't suit your "opinion" would it.

 

As you are unable to distinguish the difference between the board backing their managers, and where it becomes the managers responsibility to make good judgements rather than poor ones [bobby Robson too] there is really no point in attempting to explain this to you.

 

 

 

You've got me all wrong, and you are still seemingly reluctant to read my posts properly, and answer to "facts" you pointed out.

 

Bellamy and Robert are EXACTLY the type of signings we should be making. As we did with Ferdinand, Ginola and Batty. Quality players, in their prime, that would have walked into the top clubs at the time. I am in no way disputing that whatsoever.

 

What I'm saying is that for some reason, we haven't gone out and bought these players in the summer (for somewhat obvious reasons being the takeover and big sam's uncertainty over his own future and the assessment the new owners felt they needed to make). We couldn't sign this type of player in January due to the arrival of a new manager, and little time left in the window. Now...would it have been better not to have signed anyone at all? I'm in no way arguing that we shouldn't go after the top players. But what I'm saying is that if for whatever reason we didn't or couldn't, then there is no harm in bringing in some youth, and taking a chance that one or two might turn out better than average. They could either be integrated into the first team, or sold at a profit. WHAT'S THE HARM IN THAT? (question in caps so you don't miss it).

 

As for your argument, which you continue to avoid answering to.....i listed the players you said were youth players we bought the last time we went down the "kids policy" route. I responded by saying that those were NOT youth team signings, and that some were even above 20 at the time and established internationals/first team players.

 

Please read the post carefully so you don't misinterpret what I'm saying, and give a fair response, as I'm trying to have a debate. If you choose not to, then don't waste my time or yours. I'm hoping....but I'm not holding my breath.

 

EDIT: Oh and by the way, you conveniently ignore the FACT that we made a bid for Jonathan Woodgate this window. A big player in his prime.

 

I've answered your post. I would also point out that we didn't buy Woodgate, unlike last time, also in the January window.

 

Perhaps, as has been pointed out, Woodgate saw Spurs as a more progressive club than us ? How does that grab you, because they certainly weren't when we were run by the halls and Shepherd. And strangely too, they were more progressive than we were before the halls and Shepherd.

 

Work it out for yourself, but don't let personalities or the facts I've just told you, affect your "opinion"

 

 

 

We didn't get Woodgate because the fact is that we have gone backwards since he was here the first time. We started to go backwards because Shepherd made some abysmal decisions in appointing Souness and Roeder (still believe Big Sam was a good decision).

 

No one disputes the fact that the Halls/Shepherd/Keegan were the ones to thank for putting Newcastle back on the map, and turning us into perennial big hitters. But when things start to sour, and people with responsibility begin to make mistakes, then they need to go. Just as one needs to sell a player once he's past it regardless of how good they were in the past.

 

The new regime has been in for 5 minutes, and you're accusing them of lack of ambition. I think that is bullshit, and smacks of bitterness. Shepherd had been there for years, and people got on his back when they had seen enough. Believe you me, if the new board are here for a while, and begin to make mistakes year after year, and show signs of ineptitude year after year, I'll want them out too. So far they haven't had anywhere near enough time to do what they want to do, but imo they have signaled their intentions loud and clear. Obviously, action speaks louder than words, and we can only hope, wait and see.

 

As for you answering my question regarding the players you claim were youth signings....I still can't find the answer. How on earth were Bramble, Cort, Bassedas (), O'Brien, LuaLua comparable as youth signings to Tozer, Kadar, Baheng, Zamblera and Sodeberg???

[Dave]

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Richard meets Dennis.

[johnnypd]

emre has more assists than anyone else in our team this season despite having less than a third of the pitch-time of someone like Butt or Smith. don't agree with the thing that people think he gets better when he's out of the side, if anything his stock plummets as the same criticisms about inconsistency and unreliability re-surface. when he's actually on the pitch the side looks better and he has more creativity than anyone else at the club. sure he often disappears away from home but no one is perfect.

 

Emre is clearly better than Barnes, but since Emre is injury-prone and manages to get himself banned too easily Barnes would be a decent stand-in. i also think he is liable to be better than Milner at RW and since he is young he'd be one for the future anyway.