Bafetimbi Gomis

[Cajun]

A core of players from the same country (and usually the same area) as the club is a prominent feature of nearly every successful side in European club football.

 

But as usual, the European football geeks know better than the greatest managers of our time.

 

I'm really only interested in the premier at the moment seeing as we're not in Europe, which is why I was asking for examples of teams in the premier which followed the model you suggested. The only one I could think of was Liverpool recently under Dalglish and they spent shedloads on young English talent and he was sacked within a season.

 

Chelsea have had a core of English talent (Cole, Terry, Lampard) for the last 10 years.

 

Man Utd have had a core of local English players for as long as I can remember.

 

Arsenal have gone back to this after a few years of not bothering with no great success, their best teams have a sprinkling of English talent.

 

etc. etc.

 

Chelsea - Cole £5m + Gallas, Terry - home grown, Lampard £11m (which was quite a fee at the time).

 

Man Utd - Ridiculous crop of home grown players but also spending sums like £30m Rio, £30m Rooney, £19m Carrick etc..

 

Arsenal - Brought through Wilshere, Walcott and AOC may turn out worth the money but it was a fair bit of money gambled.

 

Seems more of an argument of us not being willing to pay big money for players rather than us refusing to sign English players.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

[littlelunchbox]

As usual, everyone will rush to blame the Lyon chairman when the common denominator in all of these deals that go pear shaped is us acting the c*** in an attempt to shave a couple of percent off.

 

being a regular on here I thought the default position was to blame our lot ?

 

maybe using the evidence to hand on each occasion may make things more even.

 

Or you could follow trends in our transfer behaviour which include targeting unsettled players which can lead to protracted negotiations if we're pinching pennies as we always do, and as a result quite often leaving ourselves short and sacrificing points until we get the deal done.

transfer window behaviour ?  like agreeing a fee for remy last january and (rumour has it) aubameyang a few weeks back ?

 

admittedly we do take advantage of contract stuff (bloody well ope we would) but it's not the be all and end all.

 

If a player's contract isn't vulnerable we're not interested in him. It's no way to built a team.

remy and aubameyangs contracts werent vulnerable were they ?

 

Aubameyang was out of contract next year if he'd stayed I think.

 

De Jong bid

 

We bid and he chose to go elsewhere, dont see what's funny. Mind you, you would have just complained he was foreign anyway. Probably best we didn't sign him.

 

Pretty sure we were 'priced out'?

 

But yeah dirty foreigners n all that - good point, well made. Needs more gifs though.

 

I was only joking mate it was something you said recently that made me chuckle. With Luuk De Jong, i thought we bid enough but he went because the team he went to had Champions Leauge footy. Could be wrong but i thought that was it.

 

Fair do's RE: the foreigner thing I grew up watching players I knew cared for the club; Kelly, Clark, Beardsley, Sir Les, Shearer, Speed, etc. Krul aside (& maybe a misguided Taylor but given his regular Pards/JFK comments not so sure) I don't see that in our first team.

 

Anyhoo, speaking for myself I just wish we a little more diverse when it came to recruitment (nationality not an issue). I know we've all been made more than aware value is king but I think a few have bought in to this a little too much, even more so when we're pretty much chasing f*** all but being solvent as a football club these days. It's f***ing boring IMO.

 

We go and sign English let's say someone from down south london,  and then an Englishman from the north and one from the midlands.  How do we know for certain they will care more about nufc than a foreigner?

 

 

 

 

[Guest bimpy474]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Read it again, it's worded fine tbh.

[littlelunchbox]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

[Cajun]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

 

Well they seemed to be challenging more when they were full of Frenchies 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Read it again, it's worded fine tbh.

 

Ah right, I see. But the point still stands, Walcott cost Arsenal nearly £10m.

[TRon]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

 

Arsenal weren't winning any trophies when they had a majority of English players under manager Bruce Rioch. It was Wenger who came in and revitalised them by bringing in a lot of French players like Viera and Henry.

[Guest bimpy474]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Read it again, it's worded fine tbh.

 

Ah right, I see. But the point still stands, Walcott cost Arsenal nearly £10m.

 

Yep, British players prices are mental at times.

[Disco]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

 

Arsenal weren't winning any trophies when they had a majority of English players under manager Bruce Rioch. It was Wenger who came in and revitalised them by bringing in a lot of French players like Viera and Henry.

 

They had 9 English players in their matchday squad which beat us in the 1998 Cup final after all those years of hurt under Bruce Rioch.

 

Anyway it's futile argument - some people would like some English/local representation, some people don't give a shit as long as we turn a profit and stay in the PL. These opinions aren't going too change.

 

As I have said I just find it a sad state of affairs for NUFC, NE football and English football as a whole.

[Jack Flash]

Everton are a good example of how it could be done. They've been buying good British prospects for years (Lescott, Baines, Coleman, Jagielka etc) and always have a group of local players coming through. Doesn't do them much harm every year.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

 

Arsenal weren't winning any trophies when they had a majority of English players under manager Bruce Rioch. It was Wenger who came in and revitalised them by bringing in a lot of French players like Viera and Henry.

 

They had 9 English players in their matchday squad which beat us in the 1998 Cup final after all those years of hurt under Bruce Rioch.

 

Anyway it's futile argument - some people would like some English/local representation, some people don't give a s*** as long as we turn a profit and stay in the PL. These opinions aren't going too change.

 

As I have said I just find it a sad state of affairs for NUFC, NE football and English football as a whole.

 

This is the problem. The PL overseas expansion, foreign investment, inflated market prices in England even from lower leagues, not to mention the style of football difference in our lower leagues, overseas advertising, English footballers being inflated in ego as the PL grew, English football in the media, English football to most English fans etc etc etc.

 

We can't blame our clubs heads too much, imo. They're just competing. yes it's pretty appalling to look at but we couldn't compete buying English. Not the funds available to make it viable, horrific youth set up which would take years to see any return on improvement. It needs to change but we're going to change rather slowly.

 

Buying someone like Ince or Sincliar would be a really great start imo. A young Englishman that will be a starter for us that everyone gets behind, wants to see progress, get in to the England team etc. Long road, though.

[TRon]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

 

Arsenal weren't winning any trophies when they had a majority of English players under manager Bruce Rioch. It was Wenger who came in and revitalised them by bringing in a lot of French players like Viera and Henry.

 

They had 9 English players in their matchday squad which beat us in the 1998 Cup final after all those years of hurt under Bruce Rioch.

 

Anyway it's futile argument - some people would like some English/local representation, some people don't give a shit as long as we turn a profit and stay in the PL. These opinions aren't going too change.

 

As I have said I just find it a sad state of affairs for NUFC, NE football and English football as a whole.

 

Local representation would be great, as long as there was relative success to go with it. I've been down the young local talent representing Newcastle before under Ardiles pre-Keegan, and when we nearly got relegated from the 2nd division, people soon realised that winning football matches comes before romanticism.

[littlelunchbox]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

 

Arsenal weren't winning any trophies when they had a majority of English players under manager Bruce Rioch. It was Wenger who came in and revitalised them by bringing in a lot of French players like Viera and Henry.

 

They had 9 English players in their matchday squad which beat us in the 1998 Cup final after all those years of hurt under Bruce Rioch.

 

Anyway it's futile argument - some people would like some English/local representation, some people don't give a s*** as long as we turn a profit and stay in the PL. These opinions aren't going too change.

 

As I have said I just find it a sad state of affairs for NUFC, NE football and English football as a whole.

 

I'm in the camp of not giving a shit, as long the players give 100% on the pitch.  When a bigger club comes along with more money they will leave in a shot makes no difference if he's English or foreign.

[relámpago blanco]

So with these new quotes from Aulas, does that mean we aren't getting him?

[Cajun]

Arsenal bought Walcott from Southampton didn't they?

 

Didnt arsenal stop winning trophies when Wenger began to invest in British?

 

Arsenal weren't winning any trophies when they had a majority of English players under manager Bruce Rioch. It was Wenger who came in and revitalised them by bringing in a lot of French players like Viera and Henry.

 

They had 9 English players in their matchday squad which beat us in the 1998 Cup final after all those years of hurt under Bruce Rioch.

 

Anyway it's futile argument - some people would like some English/local representation, some people don't give a shit as long as we turn a profit and stay in the PL. These opinions aren't going too change.

 

As I have said I just find it a sad state of affairs for NUFC, NE football and English football as a whole.

 

So there isn't a third option of - Some people don't give a shit as they realise loyalty in football died years ago, they don't care whether the player is from Fenham or France as long as they are good players who want to do well for the team?

 

[Rocker]

So with these new quotes from Aulas, does that mean we aren't getting him?

 

Oh, we'll get him alright, he's just trying to crank up the pressure and make us panic.

[Guest bimpy474]

I dont give a fuck about money, i just like to see good players playing good football.

[LRD]

So with these new quotes from Aulas, does that mean we aren't getting him?

 

Brinksmanship imo. They can't afford his wages.

 

Gomis will move to another club by the end of the window. Whether it's to us, who knows?

[relámpago blanco]

So with these new quotes from Aulas, does that mean we aren't getting him?

 

Oh, we'll get him alright, he's just trying to crank up the pressure and make us panic.

He obviously doesn't know that we do not panic with transfers.  They don't seem to panic if it looks like we'll go down, I know we signed a few last January but we had identified those long before.

[TRon]

Everton are a good example of how it could be done. They've been buying good British prospects for years (Lescott, Baines, Coleman, Jagielka etc) and always have a group of local players coming through. Doesn't do them much harm every year.

 

Everton's first team is also getting more and more foreign dominated. Compare Everton's team from last season to the one from a couple of years earlier. How many English players in their starting 11? Not that many I think.

[alexf]

Not that it was good enough long term but our team when we came back up had; Ameobi, Carroll, Barton, Nolan, Smith , Guthrie, R.Taylor, Simpson,S.Taylor, Williamson,Sol Campbell, Harper and probably a few more.

[TRon]

I dont give a fuck about money, i just like to see good players playing good football.

 

Yep. I just want to see us up their challenging for the CL spots again, which a team of our stature should always be doing. It would be great if we could do that with local or English players, but I don't see why we should be the standard bearers for English football when everyone else has abandoned the game to greed. Disco mentioned Chelsea for example: they aren't even a big club, they are a middle of the road club which has been inflated into a super team by the influx of foreign money.

[Jack Flash]

Everton are a good example of how it could be done. They've been buying good British prospects for years (Lescott, Baines, Coleman, Jagielka etc) and always have a group of local players coming through. Doesn't do them much harm every year.

 

Everton's first team is also getting more and more foreign dominated. Compare Everton's team from last season to the one from a couple of years earlier. How many English players in their starting 11? Not that many I think.

 

Baines, Gibson, Jagielka, Naismith, Neville, Osman and Coleman all played 25+ games last year and there's a batch of young English players coming through this year who look exciting (Barkley, Stones, Garbutt etc). Factor in players like Howard, Distin, Anichebe and Pienaar who have loads of PL experience and might as well be British.

 

They've also appointed a manager who loves developing young players and has already spoken of doing so at Everton.

[TRon]

Everton are a good example of how it could be done. They've been buying good British prospects for years (Lescott, Baines, Coleman, Jagielka etc) and always have a group of local players coming through. Doesn't do them much harm every year.

 

Everton's first team is also getting more and more foreign dominated. Compare Everton's team from last season to the one from a couple of years earlier. How many English players in their starting 11? Not that many I think.

 

Baines, Gibson, Jagielka, Naismith, Neville, Osman and Coleman all played 25+ games last year and there's a batch of young English players coming through this year who look exciting (Barkley, Stones, Garbutt etc). Factor in players like Howard, Distin, Anichebe and Pienaar who have loads of PL experience and might as well be British.

 

They've also appointed a manager who loves developing young players and has already spoken of doing so at Everton.

 

Their starting 11 is still a lot less British than it was two years ago, but I'll be interested to see how they do compared to us over the next couple of seasons. Personally I think if we swapped our manager for theirs we'd piss all over them within a season, but I'm going to leave this topic for now as the thread is all over the place. I've opened another thread if you want to discuss on it further.