Where's the ambition?

[Mick]

It seems to gone over a few people’s heads that the fee we offered for Modric was a club record yet we're accused of lacking ambition, crazy.

[Cajun]

It seems to gone over a few peoples heads that the fee we offered for Modric was a club record yet we're accused of lacking ambition, crazy.

 

Well put and fairly obvious.

[NE5]

 

haha, what a joke. Please explain why the trophy winning clubs signed the best players, including our best players ?

 

I'm pleased you confirm you think that our fortunes in the last decade are no better than in the 1970's and 1980s  mackems.gif

 

 

 

Thanks again.

 

As you predictably don't respond, here is  our league positions from 1969 to 2003

 

First divison : 9th, 7th, 12th, 11th, 9th, 15th, 15th, 15th, 5th, 21st

 

2nd division : 8th, 9th, 11th, 9th, 5th, 3rd

 

first division : 14th, 11th, 17th, 8th, 20th

 

2nd division : 3rd, 11th, 20th

 

and you say "we continued to attract players during this period" ..

 

Congratulations.

 

Contest these league positions and show that they are "the same as" the positions since, for as long as you like.

 

Factual data. End of story.

 

 

[NE5]

It seems to gone over a few people’s heads that the fee we offered for Modric was a club record yet we're accused of lacking ambition, crazy.

 

Well, according to this, you appear to be saying there is no point in bidding for him anyway, as a Johnny average such as the likes of Kevin Kilbane has never made any difference in the past so wouldn't now either

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=52559.msg1314829#msg1314829

 

mackems.gif mackems.gif

 

I'm pretty sure most people with even limited intelligence can see what tripe such a comment is 

[Mick]

 

As you predictably don't respond, here is  our league positions from 1969 to 2003

 

First divison : 9th, 7th, 12th, 11th, 9th, 15th, 15th, 15th, 5th, 21st

 

2nd division : 8th, 9th, 11th, 9th, 5th, 3rd

 

first division : 14th, 11th, 17th, 8th, 20th

 

2nd division : 3rd, 11th, 20th

 

and you say "we continued to attract players during this period" ..

 

Congratulations.

 

Contest these league positions and show that they are "the same as" the positions since, for as long as you like.

 

Factual data. End of story.

 

 

 

Those positions have never been in doubt, care to provide a link to backup what you're saying about the positions being the same or whatever it is you're trying to get across?

 

I doubt it.

[Mick]

 

Well, according to this, you appear to be saying there is no point in bidding for him anyway, as a Johnny average such as the likes of Kevin Kilbane has never made any difference in the past so wouldn't now either

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=52559.msg1314829#msg1314829

 

mackems.gif mackems.gif

 

I'm pretty sure most people with even limited intelligence can see what tripe such a comment is 

 

It must have been strong stuff tonight.  

[NE5]

 

As you predictably don't respond, here is  our league positions from 1969 to 2003

 

First divison : 9th, 7th, 12th, 11th, 9th, 15th, 15th, 15th, 5th, 21st

 

2nd division : 8th, 9th, 11th, 9th, 5th, 3rd

 

first division : 14th, 11th, 17th, 8th, 20th

 

2nd division : 3rd, 11th, 20th

 

and you say "we continued to attract players during this period" ..

 

Congratulations.

 

Contest these league positions and show that they are "the same as" the positions since, for as long as you like.

 

Factual data. End of story.

 

 

 

Those positions have never been in doubt, care to provide a link to backup what you're saying about the positions being the same or whatever it is you're trying to get across?

 

I doubt it.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=52559.msg1314829#msg1314829

 

Simple way out is for you just to admit that the league positions since 1993 have been because of having a superior board showing ambition ..........

 

mackems.gif

 

 

[NE5]

 

Well, according to this, you appear to be saying there is no point in bidding for him anyway, as a Johnny average such as the likes of Kevin Kilbane has never made any difference in the past so wouldn't now either

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=52559.msg1314829#msg1314829

 

mackems.gif mackems.gif

 

I'm pretty sure most people with even limited intelligence can see what tripe such a comment is 

 

It must have been strong stuff tonight.  

 

pathetic

 

 

[midds]

Starting to go a bit downhill gentlemen... 

 

Would I be pissing into the wind by asking you two to try to stick to Keegan's recent comments? I understand the need to refer back to the ambition of previous boards to offer a comparison btw.

 

I just think that particular subject has been done to death.

[ChezGiven]

Keegan's gone from...

 

“I want people to dream about their football club. They should, we should all be dreamers at heart. Some people are the opposite and say 'we can't do that', but when you ask them why, they can't give a reason. Well, I say, 'Why not?'”

 

To...

 

"During my time here – and I’ve got three years left – Newcastle will not be a Champions League club."

 

 

Hes just p!ssed off, cos he saw on monday what he is up against, and Mort hasnt given him enough money.

 

This is the type of manager, I want at newcastle,----- one isnt happy, that we are way behind the likes of Chelsea.

 

Didn't we offer £16 million for a player even though the season hasn't finished yet?

 

If Keegan thought he was going to come in here and be given enough money to compete with Chelsea straight away then he's a bigger idiot than I ever imagined.

 

You preferred Allardyce's patter?

 

You certainly did.

 

Over Keegan? You're imagining things mate, go and waste a few hours finding a quote to back that up.

 

I was alarmed at the direction the club was taking, thought it was a risk, nothing more.

 

You complained about Allardyce being full of shit, all Keegan has done is say it as he sees it.

 

You want to make a paypal bet on the top 4 next season? I'll have the current 4, which ones do you want?

 

Are you, and many other posters, missing the point here? We all know that the current top 4 will once again be top 4 next season, but for a manager of Newcastle United to come out and say that we'll not play Champions League football during his time here is completely the wrong message to send out to potential signings. Baggio isn't saying that Keegan should claim we will win the league. If anything, Keegan should say nothing at all, and I can't for the life of me see a reason for his outburst.

 

Missing what point? I'm asking how bad the comments actually are when you consider the reality is

 

Its ridiculous to tie together these comments and players wanting to play for Newcastle. They'll come if they arent arsed about living in London, other teams have got a player in that position and they fancy playing in front of 52,000.

 

Most importantly of all, the positive experience of the current players will have more influence on a potential target if he knows one of our lot personally, than some comments in the press about the top 4 which everyone agrees is spot on."

 

Yes, he shouldn't have said anything that increases the probability of a player choosing another club over us but i think its just a theoretical probability and when you actually take the time to think about how people make decisions about their lives, some interview after a Chelsea match is not part of that. I would go further to say, that although theoretically correct, you're slighly mad to think that actual decisions (life-decisions about money, career, happiness etc) will be made on the basis of these comments.

 

"Aye Dennis, I'm attracted by the 70k a week but you know that interview Kevin gave after the Chelsea match about the top 4, its just put me right off"

 

The comments he made havent helped but i think people are going overboard over the actual impact they will have. If Ashley breaks our transfer record in early June with a scoop, people will look back on them as manager mind-games designed to pressure the owner.

 

At that time, no one will remember exactly what was said just some vague stuff about needing a fuck load of money to break the top 4.

[Mick]

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=52559.msg1314829#msg1314829

 

Simple way out is for you just to admit that the league positions since 1993 have been because of having a superior board showing ambition ..........

 

mackems.gif

 

 

 

 

I must be missing something.

[NE5]

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=52559.msg1314829#msg1314829

 

Simple way out is for you just to admit that the league positions since 1993 have been because of having a superior board showing ambition ..........

 

mackems.gif

 

 

 

I must be missing something.

 

most certainly. I'm going to sign off now, but why not tell us why you think these positions since 1993 are so superior to what went before ?

 

[Mr Logic]

 

 

Yes, he shouldn't have said anything that increases the probability of a player choosing another club over us but i think its just a theoretical probability and when you actually take the time to think about how people make decisions about their lives, some interview after a Chelsea match is not part of that. I would go further to say, that although theoretically correct, you're slighly mad to think that actual decisions (life-decisions about money, career, happiness etc) will be made on the basis of these comments.

 

"Aye Dennis, I'm attracted by the 70k a week but you know that interview Kevin gave after the Chelsea match about the top 4, its just put me right off"

 

The comments he made havent helped but i think people are going overboard over the actual impact they will have. If Ashley breaks our transfer record in early June with a scoop, people will look back on them as manager mind-games designed to pressure the owner.

 

At that time, no one will remember exactly what was said just some vague stuff about needing a fuck load of money to break the top 4.

 

Good God man don't do that!

 

Don't talk sense in the middle of an episode of flame wars.

[Mick]

 

 

most certainly. I'm going to sign off now, but why not tell us why you think these positions since 1993 are so superior to what went before ?

 

 

The positions since 1993 have nothing to do with the ambitions of the club, the record breaking bid for Modric has, care to discuss that?

[ChezGiven]

 

 

Yes, he shouldn't have said anything that increases the probability of a player choosing another club over us but i think its just a theoretical probability and when you actually take the time to think about how people make decisions about their lives, some interview after a Chelsea match is not part of that. I would go further to say, that although theoretically correct, you're slighly mad to think that actual decisions (life-decisions about money, career, happiness etc) will be made on the basis of these comments.

 

"Aye Dennis, I'm attracted by the 70k a week but you know that interview Kevin gave after the Chelsea match about the top 4, its just put me right off"

 

The comments he made havent helped but i think people are going overboard over the actual impact they will have. If Ashley breaks our transfer record in early June with a scoop, people will look back on them as manager mind-games designed to pressure the owner.

 

At that time, no one will remember exactly what was said just some vague stuff about needing a fuck load of money to break the top 4.

 

Good God man don't do that!

 

Don't talk sense in the middle of an episode of flame wars.

 

I cant wait for Baggio to quote The Sun at me to prove i'm talking shit.

 

[Skeletor]

Another thread bites the dust.

[Mr Logic]

From .com

 

Mort echoes KK

 

Quotes from the Chairman, Wednesday:

 

"We don't want to do a Leeds. It doesn't make sense.

 

"This club had £100million-worth of debt which has now been cleared and it would be foolish to stretch it beyond its limits.

 

[glow=red,2,300]"I thought Kevin's comments were quite sensible.

[/glow]

"I'm not sure what people's expectations are but I don't think most Newcastle fans would be greatly surprised by what he had to say.

 

"There are those who are naturally optimistic but it does no harm to come out with some realism and say that if we get fifth we will have done well. He's right.

 

"I wasn't taken aback by Kevin's comments. He says what he feels. We have just come out of a relegation battle so you can't have people surprised when the manager says we aren't going to get into the Champions League.

 

"This is a long-term building project and we are very happy with Kevin. He's a very enthusiastic character who has got the team playing good football.

 

"We were disappointed to lose to Chelsea but he's got the team playing well.

 

"We have started talking about who we will be bringing in and Kevin will have the final say. He has to have that.

 

"We are very happy with where we are but Kevin is quite right to say we shouldn't expect Champions League football.

 

"It's going to be tough for anyone to break into the top four.

 

"Someone might sneak in there occasionally and there are a number of sides who will have a go but it is incredibly difficult."

[Guest JamesD]

Another thread bites the dust.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/images/hehe/fuckedup/arguing_over_internet.jpg

Honestly, its one thing to discuss a game or tactics, or even issues dealing with the running of the club, but the amount of arguing from certain people on here is absolutely ridiculous. Considering how long they've been at it, and how much they've accomplished, it really is pathetic.  It's a game that involves kicking a ball into a net, so seriously...shut the fuck up.

[Mick]

From .com

 

Mort echoes KK

 

Quotes from the Chairman, Wednesday:

 

"We don't want to do a Leeds. It doesn't make sense.

 

"This club had £100million-worth of debt which has now been cleared and it would be foolish to stretch it beyond its limits.

 

[glow=red,2,300]"I thought Kevin's comments were quite sensible.

[/glow]

"I'm not sure what people's expectations are but I don't think most Newcastle fans would be greatly surprised by what he had to say.

 

"There are those who are naturally optimistic but it does no harm to come out with some realism and say that if we get fifth we will have done well. He's right.

 

"I wasn't taken aback by Kevin's comments. He says what he feels. We have just come out of a relegation battle so you can't have people surprised when the manager says we aren't going to get into the Champions League.

 

"This is a long-term building project and we are very happy with Kevin. He's a very enthusiastic character who has got the team playing good football.

 

"We were disappointed to lose to Chelsea but he's got the team playing well.

 

"We have started talking about who we will be bringing in and Kevin will have the final say. He has to have that.

 

"We are very happy with where we are but Kevin is quite right to say we shouldn't expect Champions League football.

 

"It's going to be tough for anyone to break into the top four.

 

"Someone might sneak in there occasionally and there are a number of sides who will have a go but it is incredibly difficult."

 

That can't be right, it's not from the "Unnamed source."

[Baggio]

Keegan's gone from...

 

“I want people to dream about their football club. They should, we should all be dreamers at heart. Some people are the opposite and say 'we can't do that', but when you ask them why, they can't give a reason. Well, I say, 'Why not?'”

 

To...

 

"During my time here – and I’ve got three years left – Newcastle will not be a Champions League club."

 

 

Hes just p!ssed off, cos he saw on monday what he is up against, and Mort hasnt given him enough money.

 

This is the type of manager, I want at newcastle,----- one isnt happy, that we are way behind the likes of Chelsea.

 

Didn't we offer £16 million for a player even though the season hasn't finished yet?

 

If Keegan thought he was going to come in here and be given enough money to compete with Chelsea straight away then he's a bigger idiot than I ever imagined.

 

You preferred Allardyce's patter?

 

You certainly did.

 

Over Keegan? You're imagining things mate, go and waste a few hours finding a quote to back that up.

 

I was alarmed at the direction the club was taking, thought it was a risk, nothing more.

 

You complained about Allardyce being full of shit, all Keegan has done is say it as he sees it.

 

You want to make a paypal bet on the top 4 next season? I'll have the current 4, which ones do you want?

 

Are you, and many other posters, missing the point here? We all know that the current top 4 will once again be top 4 next season, but for a manager of Newcastle United to come out and say that we'll not play Champions League football during his time here is completely the wrong message to send out to potential signings. Baggio isn't saying that Keegan should claim we will win the league. If anything, Keegan should say nothing at all, and I can't for the life of me see a reason for his outburst.

 

Missing what point? I'm asking how bad the comments actually are when you consider the reality is

 

Its ridiculous to tie together these comments and players wanting to play for Newcastle. They'll come if they arent arsed about living in London, other teams have got a player in that position and they fancy playing in front of 52,000.

 

Most importantly of all, the positive experience of the current players will have more influence on a potential target if he knows one of our lot personally, than some comments in the press about the top 4 which everyone agrees is spot on."

 

Yes, he shouldn't have said anything that increases the probability of a player choosing another club over us but i think its just a theoretical probability and when you actually take the time to think about how people make decisions about their lives, some interview after a Chelsea match is not part of that. I would go further to say, that although theoretically correct, you're slighly mad to think that actual decisions (life-decisions about money, career, happiness etc) will be made on the basis of these comments.

 

"Aye Dennis, I'm attracted by the 70k a week but you know that interview Kevin gave after the Chelsea match about the top 4, its just put me right off"

 

The comments he made havent helped but i think people are going overboard over the actual impact they will have. If Ashley breaks our transfer record in early June with a scoop, people will look back on them as manager mind-games designed to pressure the owner.

 

At that time, no one will remember exactly what was said just some vague stuff about needing a fuck load of money to break the top 4.

 

What's that got to do with me preferring Allardyce's patter?

 

 

[Baggio]

Kaka makes some good points, there are some top quality footballers out there and that seems to be the area Vetere has scouted, if you look over the past few years how many people who don't play FM had heard of the likes of Berbatov, Elano, Corluka, Kranjcar, Pedersen, Manuel Fernandes, Luis Valencia, Gelson Fernandes, Yakubu etc? Perhaps the football manager comment is harsh but I wouldn't say any of that lot is household names, the best thing about them though is that not only have they come over here and looked the part but they're are/were at a decent age when they got here so there was plenty of room for improvement.

 

Keegan on the other hand comes across as someone stuck in his ways and even though he's done well for us in the transfer market the last time I still have my doubts about what he'll come up with this time, talk of Riise and Wayne Bridge hardly set the pulse racing and my biggest worry is that's the sort of player he's going to go for, well known Premiership players who have hit their peak and will soon be on the way down.

 

It appears the club have gone about putting together a quality scouting network which will hopefully be as good as any in the Premiership yet Keegan comes across as not being happy to use it, which would be a waste.

 

Mort's comments in the match programme were spot on, for this club to ever move forward we need to sign players who are not only good enough now but who are nowhere near their peak and can get even better over the following years, players like Modric or any of the above when they first came over here who can possibly stay here for the next 10 years if they're good enough, not the likes of Henry who will need replacing in 2 years time.

 

Seems like there could be some truth in this going by the reports in the papers.

[TRon]

Kaka makes some good points, there are some top quality footballers out there and that seems to be the area Vetere has scouted, if you look over the past few years how many people who don't play FM had heard of the likes of Berbatov, Elano, Corluka, Kranjcar, Pedersen, Manuel Fernandes, Luis Valencia, Gelson Fernandes, Yakubu etc? Perhaps the football manager comment is harsh but I wouldn't say any of that lot is household names, the best thing about them though is that not only have they come over here and looked the part but they're are/were at a decent age when they got here so there was plenty of room for improvement.

 

Keegan on the other hand comes across as someone stuck in his ways and even though he's done well for us in the transfer market the last time I still have my doubts about what he'll come up with this time, talk of Riise and Wayne Bridge hardly set the pulse racing and my biggest worry is that's the sort of player he's going to go for, well known Premiership players who have hit their peak and will soon be on the way down.

 

It appears the club have gone about putting together a quality scouting network which will hopefully be as good as any in the Premiership yet Keegan comes across as not being happy to use it, which would be a waste.

 

Mort's comments in the match programme were spot on, for this club to ever move forward we need to sign players who are not only good enough now but who are nowhere near their peak and can get even better over the following years, players like Modric or any of the above when they first came over here who can possibly stay here for the next 10 years if they're good enough, not the likes of Henry who will need replacing in 2 years time.

 

Seems like there could be some truth in this going by the reports in the papers.

 

Makes absolute sense to me. I'm a Keegan man, but buying big names past their sell by dates isn't a wise course.

 

 

[KaKa]

Kaka makes some good points, there are some top quality footballers out there and that seems to be the area Vetere has scouted, if you look over the past few years how many people who don't play FM had heard of the likes of Berbatov, Elano, Corluka, Kranjcar, Pedersen, Manuel Fernandes, Luis Valencia, Gelson Fernandes, Yakubu etc? Perhaps the football manager comment is harsh but I wouldn't say any of that lot is household names, the best thing about them though is that not only have they come over here and looked the part but they're are/were at a decent age when they got here so there was plenty of room for improvement.

 

Keegan on the other hand comes across as someone stuck in his ways and even though he's done well for us in the transfer market the last time I still have my doubts about what he'll come up with this time, talk of Riise and Wayne Bridge hardly set the pulse racing and my biggest worry is that's the sort of player he's going to go for, well known Premiership players who have hit their peak and will soon be on the way down.

 

It appears the club have gone about putting together a quality scouting network which will hopefully be as good as any in the Premiership yet Keegan comes across as not being happy to use it, which would be a waste.

 

Mort's comments in the match programme were spot on, for this club to ever move forward we need to sign players who are not only good enough now but who are nowhere near their peak and can get even better over the following years, players like Modric or any of the above when they first came over here who can possibly stay here for the next 10 years if they're good enough, not the likes of Henry who will need replacing in 2 years time.

 

Seems like there could be some truth in this going by the reports in the papers.

 

Wouldn't be at all surprised considering the scouting staff we've brought in who are clearly well equipped to identify and recruit some top upcoming talent in the world of football.

 

Keegan  isn't likely to be aware of a lotof these players and with his mantra of not signing plaayers he hasn't seen and wanting prem experienced players first and foremost it could be a bit tricky.

 

I just wish Kev could be a bit more open minded abou tthings tbh. I really would rather start brining in some top players of the right age rather than older established sorts who aren't going to be around for much longer.

 

Come on Kev get with the programme!

[johnnypd]

Kaka makes some good points, there are some top quality footballers out there and that seems to be the area Vetere has scouted, if you look over the past few years how many people who don't play FM had heard of the likes of Berbatov, Elano, Corluka, Kranjcar, Pedersen, Manuel Fernandes, Luis Valencia, Gelson Fernandes, Yakubu etc? Perhaps the football manager comment is harsh but I wouldn't say any of that lot is household names, the best thing about them though is that not only have they come over here and looked the part but they're are/were at a decent age when they got here so there was plenty of room for improvement.

 

Keegan on the other hand comes across as someone stuck in his ways and even though he's done well for us in the transfer market the last time I still have my doubts about what he'll come up with this time, talk of Riise and Wayne Bridge hardly set the pulse racing and my biggest worry is that's the sort of player he's going to go for, well known Premiership players who have hit their peak and will soon be on the way down.

 

It appears the club have gone about putting together a quality scouting network which will hopefully be as good as any in the Premiership yet Keegan comes across as not being happy to use it, which would be a waste.

 

Mort's comments in the match programme were spot on, for this club to ever move forward we need to sign players who are not only good enough now but who are nowhere near their peak and can get even better over the following years, players like Modric or any of the above when they first came over here who can possibly stay here for the next 10 years if they're good enough, not the likes of Henry who will need replacing in 2 years time.

 

Seems like there could be some truth in this going by the reports in the papers.

 

Even Wenger bought Henry as a raw 21 year old without a proper position, and got almost a decade of class performances out of him, letting him go at the first signs of decline. Alex Ferguson bought Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani and Anderson as teenagers, Tevez, RVN, Carrick, Vidic etc in their early twenties in order to get their best years out of them and school them in the man utd way of playing. when he goes out and buys older players it is either stop-gap signings or to add a bit of experience to guide the younger players through, like Laurent Blanc or Teddy Sheringham. On top of this both those clubs go for youngsters who won't be first-team material for a couple of years, Arsenal especially so.

 

ATM Keegan hasn't signed anyone so it is too early to say if he is just going after established players on the way down like Bridge or Riise or if he is after up and coming talents. He's gone for Woodgate who perhaps fits into the former category as he is 28 and injury plagued, but he is probably good enough to make an exception. Then there's Modric who is one for the future as well as for now, and also Barnes, who is just for the future. so one from each group - youngsters for the future, stars just getting into their stride, and established talents on the way down.

 

from this it looks like he knows what he is doing. just the board haven't been able to secure those targets, for various reasons. having the scouting network we're trying to establish is a blessing for any manager, you'd have to be mad to not take advantage of it. remember a week or so ago he did say he'd be off to personally scout some players Wise and Vetere had discovered, which does suggest he is using it as best he can.