"Actually Kev, Toon are in top 4"

[maze]

KEVIN KEEGAN says Newcastle are a million miles away from the Big Four.

 

Well, here’s some news for him — they’re in it!

 

Going back 10 years to the start of the season Arsene Wenger took over at Arsenal, we have some revealing financial statistics.

 

In that time, the biggest spenders in the transfer market, naturally enough, have been Chelsea with an outlay of £475million.

 

Next come Manchester United with £298m, followed by Liverpool on £264m.

 

In fourth place, hang on a minute, that name’s a bit familiar, yes, it’s Newcastle United!

 

The Geordies have splashed out £231m (including £16m on Michael Owen) — just ahead of Tottenham on £229m.

 

So where are Arsenal? A distant sixth with £184m.

 

And here we have the great hole in Keegan’s argument — and one that might be mentioned by Mike Ashley when the former England boss has today’s summit meeting with the Newcastle owner in London.

 

If Wenger can more than manage just to stay in touch despite spending considerably less, why can’t Newcastle? The same applies to Spurs. Had it not been for injuries and drawing too many matches they should have won, Arsenal might well have been champions.

 

Look at the figures over the last five years and Wenger’s achievement is even greater.

 

Keegan is old school

 

An outlay of £78m against Newcastle’s £103m and Tottenham’s £140m.

 

In that period, Wenger has recouped £52m in sales — a far greater percentage than Newcastle (£51m) and Spurs (£56m).

 

These sort of spectacular Arsenal returns will be music to Ashley’s ears. Because this is exactly the sort of good housekeeping he is expecting from Keegan.

 

Unlike his manager — and being a hard-nosed businessman rather than a money-no-object philanthropist like Roman Abramovich — he doesn’t believe throwing inordinate amounts of money at a problem necessarily solves it.

 

Keegan, being old school, does. Despite the evidence to the contrary of his own club (£20m wasted on Jean-Alain Boumsong and Albert Luque for starters) and Tottenham.

 

Wenger has proved that if you put in place a network of trusted, well-connected and influential scouts, you can still unearth some remarkable raw material for relatively little.

 

We all know the names — Patrick Vieira, Cesc Fabregas, Kolo Toure, Robin Van Persie, Nicolas Anelka, Mathieu Flamini, Gael Clichy, Abou Diaby and Denilson among them.

 

Harness this talent to the sort of remarkable football education these players get at London Colney and it’s no surprise the Gunners’ production line is so prolific.

 

Sure, there have been a few mistakes — strangely two of them his most expensive purchases, Jose Reyes and Sylvain Wiltord.

 

And because Arsenal stick to a rigid salary cap outside special cases including Thierry Henry and Sol Campbell (a free transfer), some players like Flamini eventually slip through the net.

 

Generally, though, Arsenal maintain their position in the Big Four because Wenger is such an outstanding manager.

 

This is not what his rivals want to hear. Rafa Benitez constantly bemoans a so-called lack of funds — even Jose Mourinho, for all his spending, did the same.

 

And now Keegan.

 

It’s not quite that simple! As for throwing more money away on pay-offs, Keggy will discover today that’s not part of Ashley’s business plan, either.

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1142516.ece

 

Comments?

[Alberto2005]

KEVIN KEEGAN says Newcastle are a million miles away from the Big Four.

 

Well, here’s some news for him — they’re in it!

 

Going back 10 years to the start of the season Arsene Wenger took over at Arsenal, we have some revealing financial statistics.

 

In that time, the biggest spenders in the transfer market, naturally enough, have been Chelsea with an outlay of £475million.

 

Next come Manchester United with £298m, followed by Liverpool on £264m.

 

In fourth place, hang on a minute, that name’s a bit familiar, yes, it’s Newcastle United!

 

The Geordies have splashed out £231m (including £16m on Michael Owen) — just ahead of Tottenham on £229m.

 

So where are Arsenal? A distant sixth with £184m.

 

And here we have the great hole in Keegan’s argument — and one that might be mentioned by Mike Ashley when the former England boss has today’s summit meeting with the Newcastle owner in London.

 

If Wenger can more than manage just to stay in touch despite spending considerably less, why can’t Newcastle? The same applies to Spurs. Had it not been for injuries and drawing too many matches they should have won, Arsenal might well have been champions.

 

Look at the figures over the last five years and Wenger’s achievement is even greater.

 

Keegan is old school

 

An outlay of £78m against Newcastle’s £103m and Tottenham’s £140m.

 

In that period, Wenger has recouped £52m in sales — a far greater percentage than Newcastle (£51m) and Spurs (£56m).

 

These sort of spectacular Arsenal returns will be music to Ashley’s ears. Because this is exactly the sort of good housekeeping he is expecting from Keegan.

 

Unlike his manager — and being a hard-nosed businessman rather than a money-no-object philanthropist like Roman Abramovich — he doesn’t believe throwing inordinate amounts of money at a problem necessarily solves it.

 

Keegan, being old school, does. Despite the evidence to the contrary of his own club (£20m wasted on Jean-Alain Boumsong and Albert Luque for starters) and Tottenham.

 

Wenger has proved that if you put in place a network of trusted, well-connected and influential scouts, you can still unearth some remarkable raw material for relatively little.

 

We all know the names — Patrick Vieira, Cesc Fabregas, Kolo Toure, Robin Van Persie, Nicolas Anelka, Mathieu Flamini, Gael Clichy, Abou Diaby and Denilson among them.

 

Harness this talent to the sort of remarkable football education these players get at London Colney and it’s no surprise the Gunners’ production line is so prolific.

 

Sure, there have been a few mistakes — strangely two of them his most expensive purchases, Jose Reyes and Sylvain Wiltord.

 

And because Arsenal stick to a rigid salary cap outside special cases including Thierry Henry and Sol Campbell (a free transfer), some players like Flamini eventually slip through the net.

 

Generally, though, Arsenal maintain their position in the Big Four because Wenger is such an outstanding manager.

 

This is not what his rivals want to hear. Rafa Benitez constantly bemoans a so-called lack of funds — even Jose Mourinho, for all his spending, did the same.

 

And now Keegan.

 

It’s not quite that simple! As for throwing more money away on pay-offs, Keggy will discover today that’s not part of Ashley’s business plan, either.

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1142516.ece

 

Comments?

Maybe so, but Keegan was talking about the present, at this moment in time we're a long way from been a top 4 team regardless of what we've spent in the past.

[80]

And here we have the great hole in Keegan’s argument — and one that might be mentioned by Mike Ashley when the former England boss has today’s summit meeting with the Newcastle owner in London.

 

Get fucked.

[Nobody]

The amount of money spent isn't relevant at all IMO.

[OzzieMandias]

If Wenger can more than manage just to stay in touch despite spending considerably less, why can?t Newcastle?

 

Cause we don't have Wenger?

[Alberto2005]

If Wenger can more than manage just to stay in touch despite spending considerably less, why can?t Newcastle?

 

Cause we don't have Wenger?

[Guest shearer_united]

Its going to be hard for Newcastle to be in the top four, but not impossible (Our Sponsor kit says "impossible is nothing").

 

I think a Minimum of 4-5 years for the club to remain in a stable position at the higher end of the table.

 

I just hope the money to be spent on players during the summer transfer window (this year, and for years to come) will be spent very, very wisely and no risky/bold moves to be made.

[maze]

To say "We don't have Wenger means we can't do it" does not hold. Is it possible for Newcastle to do this? Do you think Keegan agrees on this approach? Do you see Wise/Jimenez/Vetere as a sign of a new-building scouting network like Arsenal's? Does Wise have "enough" skills and knowledge to be head-chief of this setup? ..That is.. you think he can be the man to attract "the next Ronaldo" to St. James'?

[Kimbo]

"Going back 10 years..."

 

And that's where the Suns argument falls to pieces, a mere 2 sentences into the article.

[Dokko]

"Going back 10 years..."

 

And that's where the Suns argument falls to pieces, a mere 2 sentences into the article.

 

Aye.

 

Really cannot judge breaking in to the top four from previous years but with what's predicted for the future.

[colinmk]

To say "We don't have Wenger means we can't do it" does not hold. Is it possible for Newcastle to do this? Do you think Keegan agrees on this approach? Do you see Wise/Jimenez/Vetere as a sign of a new-building scouting network like Arsenal's? Does Wise have "enough" skills and knowledge to be head-chief of this setup? ..That is.. you think he can be the man to attract "the next Ronaldo" to St. James'?

 

Even if Jimenez et turn out to be as good as Arsenals scouting youth system then it still takes years for these players to get to the level of being truly good in the premiership.

[thomas]

To say "We don't have Wenger means we can't do it" does not hold. Is it possible for Newcastle to do this? Do you think Keegan agrees on this approach? Do you see Wise/Jimenez/Vetere as a sign of a new-building scouting network like Arsenal's? Does Wise have "enough" skills and knowledge to be head-chief of this setup? ..That is.. you think he can be the man to attract "the next Ronaldo" to St. James'?

 

Even if Jimenez et turn out to be as good as Arsenals scouting youth system then it still takes years for these players to get to the level of being truly good in the premiership.

Drat, I thought we could write it off as a failure after four months

[Mowen]

So we've spent £2m more than Spurs over the last ten years... How many top 7 finishes have they had out of that? Loads I'd expect....

[Baggio]

The difference being Wenger set out a long term view of what he could achieve at Arsenal, Keegan on the other hand would be happy to spend big money on players at their peak because he's only interested in the next 3 years and isn't interested that the squad he'd leave us with would resemble Bolton's 'dads army' a few years back.

 

If you look at man Utd for example, they've spent big money in the past but a large part of their success was because Fergie put together a talented group of youngsters and let them grow as a team together - Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Butt and the Neville's all came through the youth system to form part of their first team for the best part of a decade, Fergie also spent big money on Roy Keane, Rio Ferdinand and Andy Cole who were all 24 or under when they signed.

 

Time has gone by and most of them have needed replacing, he's set about building another team which is built around Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Anderson, Nani, Evra and Vidic, all players signed when they were 24 or under because he wants them to grow as a team together, not only that but if you've got a quality player like Evra at left back you don't have to worry about spending big money on a left back for the next 8 years unless he goes down hill dramatically, the same way they didn't need to spend big money on a right back for a decade when they had Neville, or on a left wing when they had Giggs, it meant they could spend big on filling the places they needed as there wasn't as many to fill.

 

That seems to be what this club wants to do and the reason they went to the trouble of setting up our scouting network, I don't mean they just want to sign young lads for a few hundred thousand and see how they develop, I'm talking about the likes of Modric who is not only quality now but could of been a part of our first team for the next 10 years, that is the quality (and age) of player the chairman spoke of the other day as what they're looking for, if the club could bring in 4 or 5 players of his age and quality then we could be sorted in those positions for the next 10 years, not only that we would benefit from them growing as a unit together.

 

Comments from Keegan suggests he's got other idea's, the likes of Henry, Cambell, Riise, Bridge and Dunne seem to be the sort of players he's after going from the rumour mill, turning his nose up at possible young South Americans is a stupid thing to do too, I'd take the Modric's, Veloso, Gomis, Nelson, Lennon etc over Keegan's big four rejects anyday.

 

[Mike]

Them:

 

http://dontcostnothing.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/thierry1.jpg

 

 

Us:

 

 

http://www.nufcpics.com/image/Alan-Smith-signs-for-Newcastle-United_514471.jpg

 

The hell does money matter if you don't spend it well?

[johnnypd]

agree Baggio, tho again i think it is too early to tell what kind of player Keegan is after, i think he'll take a few from the former category and a few who are younger. i think Mort and the team of Wise and Vetere are spot on in the kind of players they are targeting tho (15-18  year olds for the future and 18-24 year olds for now & the long term), so hopefully Keegan will take full advantage of their network of scouts and contacts.

[Guest mobiius]

I'm not surprised the article was written by howard from the sun tbh he and the rest of his news international old boys are fucking praying that KK gets a big old public bollocking from Big Mick so they can print their bitter twisted bile. Its all wishful thinking on their behalf. Kev has said fuck all wrong and to upcast the spending spree of previous managers is unfair and stupid to be honest when kev was talking he was talking about the now. It jumps out that the person that wrote that article has tried to use all of his journalistic skills to try and prove some point that nobody in their right mind gives a fuck about. This is just another example of the media  sticking the knife in. What also jumped out of that article was the sexual gratification the author was getting, by mentioning Arsenal or anything to do with the club. i honestly believe that the red top papers (especially the sun) would rather write about the scottish curling championships than write something good about the toon when we eventually win something. 

[Baggio]

The difference being Wenger set out a long term view of what he could achieve at Arsenal, Keegan on the other hand would be happy to spend big money on players at their peak because he's only interested in the next 3 years and isn't interested that the squad he'd leave us with would resemble Bolton's 'dads army' a few years back.

 

If you look at man Utd for example, they've spent big money in the past but a large part of their success was because Fergie put together a talented group of youngsters and let them grow as a team together - Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Butt and the Neville's all came through the youth system to form part of their first team for the best part of a decade, Fergie also spent big money on Roy Keane, Rio Ferdinand and Andy Cole who were all 24 or under when they signed.

 

Time has gone by and most of them have needed replacing, he's set about building another team which is built around Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Anderson, Nani, Evra and Vidic, all players signed when they were 24 or under because he wants them to grow as a team together, not only that but if you've got a quality player like Evra at left back you don't have to worry about spending big money on a left back for the next 8 years unless he goes down hill dramatically, the same way they didn't need to spend big money on a right back for a decade when they had Neville, or on a left wing when they had Giggs, it meant they could spend big on filling the places they needed as there wasn't as many to fill.

 

That seems to be what this club wants to do and the reason they went to the trouble of setting up our scouting network, I don't mean they just want to sign young lads for a few hundred thousand and see how they develop, I'm talking about the likes of Modric who is not only quality now but could of been a part of our first team for the next 10 years, that is the quality (and age) of player the chairman spoke of the other day as what they're looking for, if the club could bring in 4 or 5 players of his age and quality then we could be sorted in those positions for the next 10 years, not only that we would benefit from them growing as a unit together.

 

Comments from Keegan suggests he's got other idea's, the likes of Henry, Cambell, Riise, Bridge and Dunne seem to be the sort of players he's after going from the rumour mill, turning his nose up at possible young South Americans is a stupid thing to do too, I'd take the Modric's, Veloso, Gomis, Nelson, Lennon etc over Keegan's big four rejects anyday.

 

 

I'm farily sure I've read Keegan quotes recently where he said this summers recruitment was in two stages. The first stage was established first teamers (or players at or near their peak), and the second stage was promising youngsters.

 

He actually said he wants 3-4 for the first team and 1-2 youngsters to bring through slowly, I wouldn't call the likes of Modric someone who you bring through slowly when he's miles better than the shite we've got in midfield, he was talking about the likes of Giles Barnes who couldn't even get a regular spot in the Derby team.

 

 

 

[Guest DONTOONER]

In general,the way things are run now are balance imo. We have a honest manager on the fans side and a more logical owner that thinks bout the long term structure of the club. If we were ran by manager who only tried to make the owner happy...(chelsea) the progress would be relatively slow and even ineffective. Now that we have both extremes, they can usually conclude at a mid point which would be most beneficial for the club.

 

I respect keegan for his honest opinions of the late,although fans will debate about the negative effects of them. However those comments might force the owner  into considering certain aspects of Keegan's role of a manager and things only a fan would want. I am pretty sure we are trying to do a spurs type of structure under mike's new command, but as much success as i had seen from spurs...i dont think they had enjoyed as  much success as when we were under Sir Bobby which gave us stability.( This reflects upon the quality of the manager is far more important than the team at the beginning.) I bet a tenner for the mackems to go down this season but Keane has proven to me that although his team is shit...while he is not. He has made the significant difference between being kept up or going down.

 

A club needs a strong manager that the board of the club must respect and as far as the trend is going most top clubs have that. Although i was on the wagon when we finish 2nd under Keegan regimen, i have my doubts on how far Keegan can reproduce what we had then.

 

The standard of the managers that are coming into the PL are improving of the late (5 years). Not only the title race for the top 4 are getting closer, the places just below them are rival by not less than 7-8 teams which are improving steadily. The only 2 teams IMO that are able to put pressure on the top 4 are sadly spurs and Man city maybe Villa... ( This clubs has hire managers to match their ambition and intentions).

 

After keegan era again, be it good or bad...i just hope we employ someone with proven credentials just like Bobby had. 

[Wullie]

A sublime misunderstanding of the situation. And from The Sun too! I've come to expect better from them.

[merlin]

There are some good points in this article, and some stupid ones - as you would expect from any Red Top newspaper..

They are quite correct to draw the comparison with Arsenal's spend because without any doubt, Wenger has proved himself , in my opinion, as the best manager in the game ; he has kept Arsenal among the Top 4 despite having a much smaller budget than the likes of Fergie AND had them playing good football too, so no argument on that point.

He has also made some stunning deals - signing Anelka for 600,000, then selling him to Real for 21m was an incredible piece of business as he got rid of a moody player into the bargain..!

Compare that with our signings of Boumsong, Maric, Goma, Guiv'Arch, etc etc etc......and how often did we make a profit on players we bought and then sold on ? The only 2 major ones which come to mind are Woodgate and , in KKs time, Huckerby - and these were not in the same street as Wenger's deal for Anelka...

 

Where Wenger has an advantage over ANY Newcastle manager is in his club's geographical position - any promising young player, esp from abroad, is more likely to want to go to London than to Newcastle - the same is also true of top experienced players who would choose Arsenal etc above NUFC because of the likelihood of winning medals, so Newcastle always have to pay over the odds for top players which distorts the statistics this article makes about is being in the Top 4 spenders - we HAVE to be just to get anywhere NEAR Top 6, never mind Top 4...

 

Where I have some sympathy for this article and the points it makes is in the area of value-for-money ;

No-one could argue that even at 15m, Shearer was great value for money, as were the likes of Solano and Hamman under Dalglish, and Rob Lee, Andy Cole and Beresford etc under KK, BUT - if you look back over the past 10 years which is what this article deals with, the type of player that has been signed by NUFC has largely been pathetic for the money spent, and that also applies to many bought by SBR..nobody can dispute that, so we have a situation where Ashley & Co have looked at the club's dealings(even Owen, who whilst being an undoubted class player who has probably saved our skins this year)and concluded that money has been badly wasted - and I TOTALLY agree with that..

 

However, where I have some difficulty in sympathising with Ashley is that, if he wanted the type of manager that Wenger is, he should not have appointed KK in the first place - we all know KKs strengths and weaknesses, and developing young players is not one of his greatest strengths - he prefers to sign experienced players and many managers do. However, Ashley needed someone to steady the SJP ship quickly, and KK was the best man for the job at the time.

At present, we HAVE to get some players in that category, because there are too many weaknesses in the side to bring in youngsters, but a balance is required.

 

I have more sympathy with those who have a dig at Benitez, for he HAS been well-supported in the market(NUFC fans would have hero-worshipped him for signing Torres had he been manager at SJP..)

and still wants more, but some of his buys have been less successful, and Directors don't want 'less successful' when they have paid out millions plus huge wages for under performing 'stars', and who can blame them ?

 

The big problem is that NUFC fans have seen their club spend big money and been rewarded by mediocre football and no silverware, so there is more impatience - naturally - than would be the case at many other clubs who have not spent such vast outlays - this means greater priority on immediate success in future, which is unlikely to happen given the policies of the people involved ; that doesn't mean it WON'T happen, but it is less likely.

 

How patient the parties involved - fans, Manager and Directors - are to wait for this happening will be the key factor in what happens over the next couple of years and whether we still have the same manager -

OR Directors - after that time...!!