Mr Logic Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just find it annoying that there's mountains of proof (not just with our club, see the 120+ players Villa have been linked with so far) the media haven't got a clue about who we're going for, and yet as soon as a player comes up that most people would like, all that goes out of the window. He doesn't arrive here, so it's just another thing to bash the club about, even though there's nothing but the words of said clueless media that we were actually interested in the player at all. People just change their minds about what's true and what's not true just to back up their overall agenda. Like NE5 and his 'clueless London journos' stuff when they criticise Shepherd, but taking their words as gospel when they claim Ashley is cutting costs. It's just a load of fucking bollocks. Everyone agrees we need players (the best players we can get), even Steve Harper can see that. So to assume the club don't is crazy. I'm confident that they're working their hardest to bring good players here, for whatever reason things haven't been all that quick up to now. If things are the same when the window closes then fine, but why moan now? Just makes us look daft. Ashley apparently coughed up large wages for Smith, Viduka, Barton etc last summer, but now they have their own man in charge they won't back him with the required wages? Makes no sense; as I say, people just pick and choose what they believe so it fits their overall point. This has turned into a rant so I'm not going to reply again, fuck it. Need more posts like this tbh, to balance the negative ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elbee909 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it? Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe. Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need! Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit. With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor. Again, completely agree - if we ever want to get back into the upper regions of this league, we are going to have to pay over the odds as Wise and co are not going to win over players by their sunny disposition on its own. Once you get back into that position, you can then start negotaiting harder on wages etc and are a more attractive proposition for players but lets be honest, a high profile player is only going to come here for cash at present - mercenary or not. Fair enough, but there's no proof that we're not offering competitive wages to prospective employees. And like it or not, there's a ceiling on what we'll pay. Just like there always has been, regardless of who's in charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it? Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe. Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need! Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit. With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor. Again, completely agree - if we ever want to get back into the upper regions of this league, we are going to have to pay over the odds as Wise and co are not going to win over players by their sunny disposition on its own. Once you get back into that position, you can then start negotaiting harder on wages etc and are a more attractive proposition for players but lets be honest, a high profile player is only going to come here for cash at present - mercenary or not. Fair enough, but there's no proof that we're not offering competitive wages to prospective employees. And like it or not, there's a ceiling on what we'll pay. Just like there always has been, regardless of who's in charge. True, everyone is guessing at the moment, both the optimists and the pessimists - the only known facts are we tried to get Modric and failed - why that occurred is anyone's guess. I just hope that ceiling - which has been high in the past, is not lowered to a point that we inhibit the acquisition of players we desperately need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it? Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe. Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need! Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit. With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor. Again, completely agree - if we ever want to get back into the upper regions of this league, we are going to have to pay over the odds as Wise and co are not going to win over players by their sunny disposition on its own. Once you get back into that position, you can then start negotaiting harder on wages etc and are a more attractive proposition for players but lets be honest, a high profile player is only going to come here for cash at present - mercenary or not. Fair enough, but there's no proof that we're not offering competitive wages to prospective employees. And like it or not, there's a ceiling on what we'll pay. Just like there always has been, regardless of who's in charge. True, everyone is guessing at the moment, both the optimists and the pessimists - the only known facts are we tried to get Modric and failed - why that occurred is anyone's guess. I just hope that ceiling - which has been high in the past, is not lowered to a point that we inhibit the acquisition of players we desperately need. i can't see jonas coming over here for peanuts, especially since he is an Argentine international Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it? Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe. Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need! Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit. With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor. Again, completely agree - if we ever want to get back into the upper regions of this league, we are going to have to pay over the odds as Wise and co are not going to win over players by their sunny disposition on its own. Once you get back into that position, you can then start negotaiting harder on wages etc and are a more attractive proposition for players but lets be honest, a high profile player is only going to come here for cash at present - mercenary or not. Fair enough, but there's no proof that we're not offering competitive wages to prospective employees. And like it or not, there's a ceiling on what we'll pay. Just like there always has been, regardless of who's in charge. True, everyone is guessing at the moment, both the optimists and the pessimists - the only known facts are we tried to get Modric and failed - why that occurred is anyone's guess. I just hope that ceiling - which has been high in the past, is not lowered to a point that we inhibit the acquisition of players we desperately need. i can't see jonas coming over here for peanuts, especially since he is an Argentine international True, it may have to be taken in the round though i.e how much did we pay in transfer fees and if it was less than his 'market value', how much could we afford to give him in wages. Plus, we don't know what he was on, who else wanted him and how much we are actually paying him. But granted, I would have expected him to be on good wages. As I say, its all conjecture at the moment, we have bought one established player, if more come in then great stuff, I just hope that we don't miss out on anymore of our targets and if it comes down to money, lets hope we take a pragmatic approach for the right deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 We probably offered him more money than Benfica, but remember, we did finish 12th last season and we're not in the UEFA Cup! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 We probably offered him more money than Benfica, but remember, we did finish 12th last season and we're not in the UEFA Cup! exactly, he turned us down because he probably still has some ambition left in him than to take up a big offer from us money isn't everything you know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 We probably offered him more money than Benfica, but remember, we did finish 12th last season and we're not in the UEFA Cup! exactly, he turned us down because he probably still has some ambition left in him than to take up a big offer from us money isn't everything you know the rumours are that it was down to wages..he'd rather play in the prem than portugal but they offered more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 True, everyone is guessing at the moment, both the optimists and the pessimists - the only known facts are we tried to get Modric and failed - why that occurred is anyone's guess. I just hope that ceiling - which has been high in the past, is not lowered to a point that we inhibit the acquisition of players we desperately need. "It is frustrating that Modric, like Woodgate before him, should take less money than we offered to move to the brights of London, and European football with Tottenham next season." copyright © 2008 Chris Mort, Newcastle United Football Club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It is strange that with this new policy of lowering the wage bill that we have lost out on class players despite offering them better money than the clubs they have signed for.......................................................................... It is unfeasible that we have offered similar/ less money & that the players have opted for clubs playing in europe & who are located in more desirable parts of the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elbee909 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 We probably offered him more money than Benfica, but remember, we did finish 12th last season and we're not in the UEFA Cup! exactly, he turned us down because he probably still has some ambition left in him than to take up a big offer from us money isn't everything you know the rumours are that it was down to wages..he'd rather play in the prem than portugal but they offered more. Discount the rumours, what do we know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It is strange that with this new policy of lowering the wage bill that we have lost out on class players despite offering them better money than the clubs they have signed for.......................................................................... It is unfeasible that we have offered similar/ less money & that the players have opted for clubs playing in europe & who are located in more desirable parts of the world. I've given you quotes that we lost out on two players which we know we bid for and didn't get, both of these we are told went elsewhere for less money, a claim which I can't remember anybody denying yet its public knowledge that it was said and it was said in print by a lawyer. The only other two players who we know for sure that we were in for both came here. Have you any quotes to say that we have a policy of lowering the wage bill? Or, have you got any quotes from club officials that say we’ve lost out on any named players because we offered less cash? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just find it annoying that there's mountains of proof (not just with our club, see the 120+ players Villa have been linked with so far) the media haven't got a clue about who we're going for, and yet as soon as a player comes up that most people would like, all that goes out of the window. He doesn't arrive here, so it's just another thing to bash the club about, even though there's nothing but the words of said clueless media that we were actually interested in the player at all. People just change their minds about what's true and what's not true just to back up their overall agenda. Like NE5 and his 'clueless London journos' stuff when they criticise Shepherd, but taking their words as gospel when they claim Ashley is cutting costs. It's just a load of f***ing bollocks. Everyone agrees we need players (the best players we can get), even Steve Harper can see that. So to assume the club don't is crazy. I'm confident that they're working their hardest to bring good players here, for whatever reason things haven't been all that quick up to now. If things are the same when the window closes then fine, but why moan now? Just makes us look daft. Ashley apparently coughed up large wages for Smith, Viduka, Barton etc last summer, but now they have their own man in charge they won't back him with the required wages? Makes no sense; as I say, people just pick and choose what they believe so it fits their overall point. This has turned into a rant so I'm not going to reply again, f*** it. Spot on Dave It's not exactly rocket science that we have thread bare squad that needs major beefing up. I'm also quite sure KK and the 3 stooges would want to bring in the best players possible. If anyone thinks they do not realize we need good players, and if anyone thinks we're actually actively pursuing average players as a policy, then they need to pull their finger out. Q for NE5: I'm in no way comparing us to Wigan as a football club overall. But I have a question for NE5. Do you sir think that Dave Whelan was taking a progressive ambitious step in bidding to take Owen there (as had been reported), or do you see it as a failure on his part to sell the club to a high profile player like Owen? I think for a club like Wigan, to buy a player like Owen, is nothing other than a bid to sell shirts. Owen knows full well Wigan will never be good enough for him, and Wigan likewise. Just my opinion. What do you think ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It is strange that with this new policy of lowering the wage bill that we have lost out on class players despite offering them better money than the clubs they have signed for.......................................................................... It is unfeasible that we have offered similar/ less money & that the players have opted for clubs playing in europe & who are located in more desirable parts of the world. I've given you quotes that we lost out on two players which we know we bid for and didn't get, both of these we are told went elsewhere for less money, a claim which I can't remember anybody denying yet its public knowledge that it was said and it was said in print by a lawyer. The only other two players who we know for sure that we were in for both came here. Have you any quotes to say that we have a policy of lowering the wage bill? Or, have you got any quotes from club officials that say we’ve lost out on any named players because we offered less cash? http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_04/035ostrich_468x538.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Got to love NE5. A couple of nights ago we were lacking ambition for signing Aimar, now we've got no ambition because we didn't sign him. so which is it NE5? I'm not a fence sitter myself, but it appears you're swinging your views back and forth as it suits. Please clarify if you've got the time. Thanks its quite simple. We failed to sign a player the manager wanted, and in this case, he wasn't even first choice. well, let's assume KK wanted Aimar, and agreed with Wise and co to go for him. We put in a bid, which was accepted by all "press" accounts. Let's also say that said club and player had other offers on the table. Doesn't said player then get to choose which club he wants to play for? naturally factoring in his own ambition, the club's ambition, wages, european football, city, climate etc...etc... what if the player really did turn us down in favour of Benfica? why does that automatically indicate failure on our part? he's south american remember, and has been a relatively big name charlie for a few yrs now. There may be several reasons why he would choose Benfica over us, and none of them have to be automatically due to our club failing at boardroom/Wise level. just the same way you accuse people of having an agenda against the old board, you clearly use every chance you get to criticize the new board, even when factual information is scarce and all that's available is unsubstantiated drivel written up by some 2 bit journo. the club are missing out on managers targets for not showing ambition/having the setup to persuade them to come/not being urgent enough to go and get them, whatever the reason, and making noises about putting in place a policy that I basically think is the wrong way to get among the top clubs and you think they shouldn't be criticised ? You bet your arse I'll criticise mate, and whats more its justified as well. Agreed. It was only 7 years ago - ie. the Summer leading into the 01/02 campaign - that we were able to poach Robert from under the nose of Barcelona, despite the club undergoing, or going through a rebuilding/transitional phase similar to Keegan's current predicament. With regards to the the points i have underlined the Shepherd deserves his plaudits: 1. prepared to pay the going rate/personal terms. 2. They got in early & threw some decisive punches, before Barcelona completed the same decisive blows and 3. Robson at that stage was fully utilised in the negotiation process - to my recollection Robert had a telephone conversation with Wenger also, or somebody at Arsenal anyway, and that played a part in sealing the deal, but nonetheless we were effectively in the ballpark. Admittedly though, and this is a fault on the part of the previous board's part, SBR became more of a peripheral figure in this 'negotiating process' later on, or left in the dark as Robson has previously put it or 'underutilised' as KK currently is. Even so we still would've secured Rooney's signature, if it hadn't been for United reconfiguring their finances in order to accomodate Rooney's transfer a year ahead of their planned schedule. At the time we were butting heads with United in the transfer market, and previously by backing the manager's judgment we outpunched AC Milan - and other interested Serie A suitors - in the race for Viana, Robert has already been mentioned, and we got in early and secured Jenas & payed the going rate for Jenas when a cashed-up Leeds were sniffing around............... that's a good looking CV for a supposedly shitehouse chairman re-Shepherd. yes, but ...... you simply can't point this out !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elbee909 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It is strange that with this new policy of lowering the wage bill that we have lost out on class players despite offering them better money than the clubs they have signed for.......................................................................... It is unfeasible that we have offered similar/ less money & that the players have opted for clubs playing in europe & who are located in more desirable parts of the world. I've given you quotes that we lost out on two players which we know we bid for and didn't get, both of these we are told went elsewhere for less money, a claim which I can't remember anybody denying yet its public knowledge that it was said and it was said in print by a lawyer. The only other two players who we know for sure that we were in for both came here. Have you any quotes to say that we have a policy of lowering the wage bill? Or, have you got any quotes from club officials that say we’ve lost out on any named players because we offered less cash? http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_04/035ostrich_468x538.jpg That bird has about as much solid info as the rest of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_04/035ostrich_468x538.jpg I clicked on the photo but it didn't take me to anywhere to see where anybody at the club had said we had a policy of lowering the wage bill or to where we could see quotes about us missing out on players because we'd offered less money than another team. Any chance of fixing the link? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elbee909 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I remember the good old days when 'FACTS' were important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I remember the good old days when 'FACTS' were important. That's a fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_04/035ostrich_468x538.jpg I clicked on the photo but it didn't take me to anywhere to see where anybody at the club had said we had a policy of lowering the wage bill or to where we could see quotes about us missing out on players because we'd offered less money than another team. Any chance of fixing the link? I've supplied plenty of factual material to you in the past in the form of league positions and amount of european qualifications and you ignore those because they don't fit your "opinion". That photo is an identikit of you. Why not start by admitting the bleeding obvious ......... mackems.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_04/035ostrich_468x538.jpg I clicked on the photo but it didn't take me to anywhere to see where anybody at the club had said we had a policy of lowering the wage bill or to where we could see quotes about us missing out on players because we'd offered less money than another team. Any chance of fixing the link? I've supplied plenty of factual material to you in the past in the form of league positions and amount of european qualifications and you ignore those because they don't fit your "opinion". That photo is an identikit of you. Why not start by admitting the bleeding obvious ......... mackems.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I've supplied plenty of factual material to you in the past in the form of league positions and amount of european qualifications and you ignore those because they don't fit your "opinion". That photo is an identikit of you. Why not start by admitting the bleeding obvious ......... mackems.gif Thanks, I didn't think you'd find any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Stop it you two. Every bloody thread has to turn into a bloody flame war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Stop it you two. Every bloody thread has to turn into a bloody flame war. If you've got a problem then do something about it, I posted a comment that had nothing to do with him and he passed comment so I asked him to prove what he was saying just like in the other thread when he told lies so it isn't every thread and it wasn't only two in this one if you check. I hope this isn't going to end up with you throwing another tantrum. How come you never comment about anybody else or when he does it to others? You have a problem and you need to sort it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just find it annoying that there's mountains of proof (not just with our club, see the 120+ players Villa have been linked with so far) the media haven't got a clue about who we're going for, and yet as soon as a player comes up that most people would like, all that goes out of the window. He doesn't arrive here, so it's just another thing to bash the club about, even though there's nothing but the words of said clueless media that we were actually interested in the player at all. People just change their minds about what's true and what's not true just to back up their overall agenda. Like NE5 and his 'clueless London journos' stuff when they criticise Shepherd, but taking their words as gospel when they claim Ashley is cutting costs. It's just a load of f***ing bollocks. Everyone agrees we need players (the best players we can get), even Steve Harper can see that. So to assume the club don't is crazy. I'm confident that they're working their hardest to bring good players here, for whatever reason things haven't been all that quick up to now. If things are the same when the window closes then fine, but why moan now? Just makes us look daft. Ashley apparently coughed up large wages for Smith, Viduka, Barton etc last summer, but now they have their own man in charge they won't back him with the required wages? Makes no sense; as I say, people just pick and choose what they believe so it fits their overall point. This has turned into a rant so I'm not going to reply again, f*** it. Spot on Dave It's not exactly rocket science that we have thread bare squad that needs major beefing up. I'm also quite sure KK and the 3 stooges would want to bring in the best players possible. If anyone thinks they do not realize we need good players, and if anyone thinks we're actually actively pursuing average players as a policy, then they need to pull their finger out. Q for NE5: I'm in no way comparing us to Wigan as a football club overall. But I have a question for NE5. Do you sir think that Dave Whelan was taking a progressive ambitious step in bidding to take Owen there (as had been reported), or do you see it as a failure on his part to sell the club to a high profile player like Owen? I think for a club like Wigan, to buy a player like Owen, is nothing other than a bid to sell shirts. Owen knows full well Wigan will never be good enough for him, and Wigan likewise. Just my opinion. What do you think ? Oh I agree entirely. But you haven't answered my question. Obviously a player like Owen joining a club like Wigan would drastically improve the playing staff, not to mention raise the profile of the club, and be a pulling power for other players to join. It was never going to happen of course, as Wigan are nowhere near big enough as a club to attract a top name like that. But from a chairman's/set-up point of view, do you see Whelan's bid as a stunt, an ambitious shot in the dark, a genuine bid to move the club forward, or a total failure on his part to attract a player of Owen's standing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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