Guest The Libertine Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 you would add a fair amount of credibility if you can prove a human devised this idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 oh dear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 We'll no doubt get the, "at least some fans care enough to try and do something for the club, blah blah," line spouted pretty shortly. True, but still the sh*ttest idea I've seen in a good long while though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Also over the first several years of supporter ownership and additional 2 millions shares will be sold for an elevated price to raise fund for club and squad improvements. This funding should help us match the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City. From this foundations we will hopefully be able to book regular trips to the champions league and challenge for the league title. Will someone care to explain, how? that paragraph. It's foolproof!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/d/d1/Private_Baldrick.jpg "I have a cunning plan..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Just give me your money and I promise that although you'll never see it again, I won't have built your hopes up in anyway, or lied to you, or given you any false dreams to buy into, I won't ever remind you about it and I'll never tell anyone that it was you who paid for my new car or whatever I decide to get with the money. I think my offer beats theirs hands down, it's a comparative bargain, go on, you know you want to! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 This is a fantastic idea. It will prove once and for all that the supposed supporters groups are great at organising large mobs in order to loudly complain, but don't have the first idea how to invest seriously or grow a football club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealios Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Nice sentiment, but the only way this sort of thing could ever work in the current climate is if a very very rich benefactor and owner allowed it to happen very slowly (as said above) i.e. put 10% over to a fans trust, and then over a very long period of time build this up to the magical 25.1% to veto special resolutions, and then to 50.1%. Looking at this might be a more productive way than the idea stated above. The one stated at the start of the thread would not work because of various company law requirements (presumably you have already dealt with statutory requirements of advertising a collective investment scheme etc.?). And that is before you consider the costs associated with set up. Due to the large shareholder base (i.e. many holders few shares) the administrative costs would be astronomical - and you would need somebody to foot the bill for this even if the whole scheme failed. Before people start mentioning Barcelona etc. - these clubs were constituted before TV money meant clubs were more expensive to buy i.e. NUFC for £10m as opposed to £300m. Another option to the fans trust above might be a new club like Man Utd did - I think getting into Division 2 is achievable - I don't think it takes a great leap of imagination to see Ebbsfleet achieving it for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 sounds like something a 6th form business studies student has dreamed up in his bedroom in between a pot noodle & a wank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Just hypothesising, and from a position of economic ignorance.. The city of Newcastle stands to profit from regular European football, in particular the hospitality industry. (Hotels, clubs, pubs, restaurants, casinos etc.) Rather than just targetting fans/supporters around the world get some motivation generated within the cities business community, (wether they are die-hard supporters, casual fans or have little interest in the game of football whatsoever), it could be possible to persuade/convince them of regularly increased profits in direct proportion to the clubs success. The more successful the club is the more they stand to profit? (Is this even theoretically sound?) Still couldn't expect to raise 300m, be amazing if it generated 3m really. Nice sentiment, but the only way this sort of thing could ever work in the current climate is if a very very rich benefactor and owner allowed it to happen very slowly (as said above) i.e. put 10% over to a fans trust, and then over a very long period of time build this up to the magical 25.1% to veto special resolutions, and then to 50.1%. Looking at this might be a more productive way than the idea stated above. The one stated at the start of the thread would not work because of various company law requirements (presumably you have already dealt with statutory requirements of advertising a collective investment scheme etc.?). And that is before you consider the costs associated with set up. Due to the large shareholder base (i.e. many holders few shares) the administrative costs would be astronomical - and you would need somebody to foot the bill for this even if the whole scheme failed. Would there be alternatives to pooling money. If a small group could accept donations for example, (I realise the enormous trust that would be needed in such a situation.) Would it be impossible to find 100,000 people worldwide that want to support the club financially. Just as an example I could commit to £100/month for such a venture. 100,000 people like me and that's 120m in 1 year. I find it a little frustrating that the vast majority of responses in this thread are so negative. Why not, instead, find some way to surmount or avoid the difficulties and make it possible. I would have thought this Ashley situation would have been all the impetus needed to at least try. The thought of getting a new owner with no interest in the club other than as a plaything/vehicle for brand association or whatever is not an encouraging one. I'm sure the majority feel quite helpless and frustrated when things go wrong with the club. That will never change unless the owners of the club are benevolent with a primary concern for Newcastle United as an entity and nothing else besides. It doesn't really matter how naive I am, there are others out there that could make this work. As far-fetched as it might sound, as romantic an idea or impractical, it has to be possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Just hypothesising, and from a position of economic ignorance.. The city of Newcastle stands to profit from regular European football, in particular the hospitality industry. (Hotels, clubs, pubs, restaurants, casinos etc.) Rather than just targetting fans/supporters around the world get some motivation generated within the cities business community, (wether they are die-hard supporters, casual fans or have little interest in the game of football whatsoever), it could be possible to persuade/convince them of regularly increased profits in direct proportion to the clubs success. The more successful the club is the more they stand to profit? (Is this even theoretically sound?) Still couldn't expect to raise 300m, be amazing if it generated 3m really. Nice sentiment, but the only way this sort of thing could ever work in the current climate is if a very very rich benefactor and owner allowed it to happen very slowly (as said above) i.e. put 10% over to a fans trust, and then over a very long period of time build this up to the magical 25.1% to veto special resolutions, and then to 50.1%. Looking at this might be a more productive way than the idea stated above. The one stated at the start of the thread would not work because of various company law requirements (presumably you have already dealt with statutory requirements of advertising a collective investment scheme etc.?). And that is before you consider the costs associated with set up. Due to the large shareholder base (i.e. many holders few shares) the administrative costs would be astronomical - and you would need somebody to foot the bill for this even if the whole scheme failed. Would there be alternatives to pooling money. If a small group could accept donations for example, (I realise the enormous trust that would be needed in such a situation.) Would it be impossible to find 100,000 people worldwide that want to support the club financially. Just as an example I could commit to £100/month for such a venture. 100,000 people like me and that's 120m in 1 year. I find it a little frustrating that the vast majority of responses in this thread are so negative. Why not, instead, find some way to surmount or avoid the difficulties and make it possible. I would have thought this Ashley situation would have been all the impetus needed to at least try. The thought of getting a new owner with no interest in the club other than as a plaything/vehicle for brand association or whatever is not an encouraging one. I'm sure the majority feel quite helpless and frustrated when things go wrong with the club. That will never change unless the owners of the club are benevolent with a primary concern for Newcastle United as an entity and nothing else besides. It doesn't really matter how naive I am, there are others out there that could make this work. As far-fetched as it might sound, as romantic an idea or impractical, it has to be possible. The responses are negative, because the reality is negative, this idea is not going to work, it's simply not possible. Your 100,000 people concept won't work either I'm afraid, think about the likelihood of finding 100,000 people who are committed enough to NUFC that they're prepared to pay £100 a month, it's not that high really, is it. How many season tickets do we sell? How much do they cost? What do you get for your money? If I was paying £100 a month to "own" NUFC, then the first thing I'd want for my money would be to be able to see the team play whenever I wanted. I'd imagine that the vast majority of people would feel the same, so that's about 100, 000 "owners" wanting to see the game each week, how big's SJP again? What happens to season ticket holders? Etc etc etc. Sorry to be so negative, but that's simply the reality of the situation, the fans buying the club is a nice fantasy, but that's all it is: a fantasy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 So remind me again, why does everyone laugh at us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Don't apologise, it is only by getting your feedback that allows me to reconsider my own ideas and either adapt or scrap them. First of all I'll adapt. To the premise that you would have 100,000 owners wanting to watch the game whenver they want. That assumes they all live locally to the ground or are willing to travel to every fixture. What about all the overseas suppporters? Speaking for myself I would be more than content to watch every game on TV for my £100/month ownership bond, how about watching it in HDTV. (And I'm 8 miles from the ground.) Of course that raises another hurdle, the rights to broadcast the game to the £100 a month 'owners' of the club. Work out some deal with Sky or whoever would have the current rights. Of course they would want to know what's in it for them, this poxy world is driven by money. But you don't know unless you try. I know things are difficult but nothing is impossible. With the right drive and belief.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Ridiculous for so many reasons I won't even start to think of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The responses are negative, because the reality is negative, this idea is not going to work, it's simply not possible. Your 100,000 people concept won't work either I'm afraid, think about the likelihood of finding 100,000 people who are committed enough to NUFC that they're prepared to pay £100 a month, it's not that high really, is it. How many season tickets do we sell? How much do they cost? What do you get for your money? If I was paying £100 a month to "own" NUFC, then the first thing I'd want for my money would be to be able to see the team play whenever I wanted. I'd imagine that the vast majority of people would feel the same, so that's about 100, 000 "owners" wanting to see the game each week, how big's SJP again? What happens to season ticket holders? Etc etc etc. Sorry to be so negative, but that's simply the reality of the situation, the fans buying the club is a nice fantasy, but that's all it is: a fantasy. Out of curiosity do you think that would hold true in all cases or in just the case where no fan, no matter how willing to invest, can own more than 1% ala the proposed plan in the OP? I think there's a number of relatively "rich" fans who would, but might balk at the < 1% idea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Don't apologise, it is only by getting your feedback that allows me to reconsider my own ideas and either adapt or scrap them. First of all I'll adapt. To the premise that you would have 100,000 owners wanting to watch the game whenver they want. That assumes they all live locally to the ground or are willing to travel to every fixture. What about all the overseas suppporters? Speaking for myself I would be more than content to watch every game on TV for my £100/month ownership bond, how about watching it in HDTV. (And I'm 8 miles from the ground.) Of course that raises another hurdle, the rights to broadcast the game to the £100 a month 'owners' of the club. Work out some deal with Sky or whoever would have the current rights. Of course they would want to know what's in it for them, this poxy world is driven by money. But you don't know unless you try. I know things are difficult but nothing is impossible. With the right drive and belief.... Mate for every hypothetical solution you can come up with there's a real issue making that solution nigh on unworkable. Sky and the other TV companies would never ever allow that, whey would they essentially give up 100,000 subscribers/viewers for nothing having spent a phenomenally large amount of money on securing the rights to Premiership games? The Premiership wouldn't allow it as the are strongly opposed to anything that weakens their collective bargaining position, which this would. Honestly, for everything that gets proposed it's going to be easy for people to find huge problems with putting that into practice, we could be here all day doing this, all week/month/year even. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Save the club from clown fans more like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroP Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 ok first of all, NUFC is no longer listed on the stock exchange so buying shares in the club is not a feasible option. Or is it a case of you chip in your cash and then get promised that many shares when the club is bought? what happens if the club is never bought by fans? do you get you cash back or is the organiser a WUM con artist who will do a runner with the dosh as soon as he can. most people only invest in shares of a business if that business is expected to make money or generate a return on the shares. the club at the moment is running at a loss and will be taking a bigger hit if and when the country goes into recession Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 YOu should be able to pledge your support, without handing over any cash, untill enough has been pledged to show that the amount is achievable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 1957: Men conquer Everest 1969: Man steps on the moon 2008: Men fail to buy football club, too many hurdles to surmount. I'll do an Ashley now and just give up before I started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The responses are negative, because the reality is negative, this idea is not going to work, it's simply not possible. Your 100,000 people concept won't work either I'm afraid, think about the likelihood of finding 100,000 people who are committed enough to NUFC that they're prepared to pay £100 a month, it's not that high really, is it. How many season tickets do we sell? How much do they cost? What do you get for your money? If I was paying £100 a month to "own" NUFC, then the first thing I'd want for my money would be to be able to see the team play whenever I wanted. I'd imagine that the vast majority of people would feel the same, so that's about 100, 000 "owners" wanting to see the game each week, how big's SJP again? What happens to season ticket holders? Etc etc etc. Sorry to be so negative, but that's simply the reality of the situation, the fans buying the club is a nice fantasy, but that's all it is: a fantasy. Out of curiosity do you think that would hold true in all cases or in just the case where no fan, no matter how willing to invest, can own more than 1% ala the proposed plan in the OP? I think there's a number of relatively "rich" fans who would, but might balk at the < 1% idea The less than 1% concept is just the least feasible of many infeasible proposals for the fans buying NUFC. In my view the most feasible - and this'll show you just how infeasible I think the whole thing is! - is for some gazillionaire to buy the club and somehow transfer ownership to the fans essentially for free, maybe leaving it in trust "for the fans" when he/she dies. The odds of that happening are astronomical, but that's the only way I could ever see this happening and certainly the only way I could see it actually working, once it had happened. Basically, I don't think there's a happy medium position where the club's equity could be split between big money investors and normal fans, so that enough capital could be raised to buy it, yet it could still be described as being "owned" by the fans. A "Geordie consortium" could come in, but even then I reckon we'd be struggling to find people with enough spare cash to buy the club and make it work and that wouldn't exactly be classed as being owned by the fans in my book anyway. There's a post I made in the other thread where I think I went into this a bit more deeply, I'll see if I can find it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I already want to sack the fictional board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 If ashley, was looking for an investor, to own part of the club, why couldnt this be the fans, why dosent he sell part of the club back to the fans, in return for them having a say on issues such as manager, dof, chairman etc. the raised capital could buy some players, everyone wins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Here's a link to the post in the other thread, I'm not going to post it because it would be totally out of context, but here it is anyway: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=55933.msg1487212#msg1487212 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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