Dave Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Arsenal - Arsene Wenger Aston Villa - Martin O'Neill Blackburn Rovers - Paul Ince Bolton Wanderers - Gary Megson Chelsea - Phil Scolari Everton - David Moyes Fulham - Roy Hodgson Hull City - Phil Brown Liverpool - Rafael Benitez Manchester City - Mark Hughes Manchester United - Alex Ferguson Middlesbrough - Gareth Southgate Newcastle United - Joe Kinnear Portsmouth - Tony Adams? Stoke City - Tony Pulis Sunderland - Roy Keane Tottenham Hotspur - Harry Redknapp West Bromwich Albion - Tony Mowbray West Ham United - Gianfranco Zola Wigan Athletic - Steve Bruce So of the 20 currently in charge, only four Premier League managers are foreigners in the true sense of the word. After Keegan went I was certain we'd move for an overseas manager to try fit our system, especially when the likes of Deschamps and Zico were supposedly interested. But I'm wondering now if it's quite that clear cut. Of the four current foreigners, one has been there ages (Wenger), two have proven themselves elsewhere (Scolari, Benitez) and only one is a genuine gamble - Zola. My question is, are the days of the foreign manager in English football fading? If so - and assuming the new owners will abandon our continental system - who does that leave us considering for the job? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Phil Brown, Southgate, Keane all with no previous managerial experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Was waiting for that. Seriously though, who else would there be if we ignored the foreign contingent altogether? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Not many big foreign managers on the market at the moment really that I can think of aside from Rijkaard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Was waiting for that. Seriously though, who else would there be if we ignored the foreign contingent altogether? The return of Big Sam! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Was waiting for that. Seriously though, who else would there be if we ignored the foreign contingent altogether? Unless it was a van gaal, hiddink or a advocaat it would be a massive gamble if we went foreign Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Phil Brown, Southgate, Keane all with no previous managerial experience See also Sammy Lee, Steve McClaren & Chris Hutchings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 On the other side when you look at the truth at there... the foreign manager rule EPL. I think not fading dave. it's like natural selection. foreign manager gets more... pressured to be success rather than local ones. Maybe because the owner think like this "Why i use the service of foreign one... which is i pay more money for him... if i don't see he got top quality that i can set him target for the top...? locals are more less gamble. and more settled quicker with the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Interesting point Dave, I hadn't realised there were so few. One thing though, out of those four managers, three are in control of the three best clubs in the country. Don't know if that means anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 But Chelsea and Arsenal are one-offs in their own way - Wenger revolutionised Arsenal when he came and has effectively worked miracles, whereas Chelsea until very recently have been untouchable in terms of spending power. I don't really know what I'm getting at with this, just saying that I'm not sure it's as popular a move any more just to plump for a fashionable foreigner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Interesting point Dave, I hadn't realised there were so few. One thing though, out of those four managers, three are in control of the three best clubs in the country. Don't know if that means anything. I'd suggest that it's because British managers don't generally do so well in Europe, or at least it's perceived that way. Tactically naive. Even Ferguson struggled for a long time in Europe with a side that dominated the domestic league. They only started making real headway when Queiroz persuaded Fergie not to be so gung-ho in the CL. There's probably a chicken-and-egg element to it, though. British managers aren't considered for the top jobs, because they have no great track record in Europe, which is hard to get unless you have a cracking side. Like the players, British managers would probably benefit from working abroad to broaden their horizons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Phil Brown, Southgate, Keane all with no previous managerial experience See also Sammy Lee, Steve McClaren & Chris Hutchings. Shearer is to the aforementioned, as gold is to tin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Phil Brown, Southgate, Keane all with no previous managerial experience See also Sammy Lee, Steve McClaren & Chris Hutchings. Shearer is to the aforementioned, as gold is to tin Ok then, Waddle, Hateley, Rush, Barnes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I don't really know what I'm getting at with this, just saying that I'm not sure it's as popular a move any more just to plump for a fashionable foreigner. That's definitely true, I still think we're quite conservative in that if things go wrong we go for the safe option. The days of appointing a relative unknown in the style of Christian Gross or whoever are definitely over. Look at Spurs now, I don't think you can say that Redknapp is objectively a 'better manager' then Ramos, but he's a 'solid' appointment. And the recent flak for the DoF system will add to this effect, if the media trend continues we might see more clubs going for a traditional manager who does it all. What that will mean for acadmies, scouting and our chances in Europe I don't know. All of the above applies only to clubs outside the top 4 I suppose, as the top 4 will continue to be in a universe of their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Depends on the club and circumstances. I don't think the circumstances at Newcastle now are ideal for a foreign manager. For where Spurs were last season, Ramos was the perfect appointment. They were the ones on the brink of the top 4, and no manager in this country has really had experience of doing that, whereas in Spain Ramos had done something similar with Sevilla. Now though rock-bottom, the safe option was Redknapp, who's had experience of getting clubs out of a hole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I blame the recession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 The rush to obtain foreign managers was largely pushed by Arsene Wenger's success at Arsenal, and then, to a lesser degree, Jose Mourinho's stint at Chelsea. Wenger has been at Arsenal now for over 10 years, and to me, is not really a 'Foreign' manager at all now - he is even on record as bemoaning the fact that not enough English youngsters are coming through... Also, because he has been there so long, he is almost a 'part of the furniture' in the Prem.. Mourinho had worked with SBR prior to coming to England, and comes from a notoriously pro-English country in Portugal, so settled well and had a good understanding of the Prem . Of the others, Benitez has done well(although the Scousers whinge about lack of titles..) - Ramos was a flash-in-the-pan, probably not helped by his poor command of English, although not being fluent in Dutch or Portuguese didn't affect SBR's success in those countries... The most successful foreign manager before Wenger really hit the heights was Houllier at Liverpool . If you look back over the years, no Foreign manager has equalled Bob Paisley in quality of trophies won and none has managed to beat Sir Alex Ferguson's title wins in the Prem. Also, none have taken on a small English club like Clough did with Derby & Forest, and win the European Cup. I disagree that a foreign manager is a pre-requisite for success - its just that many of the last generation of English/British managers were not especially good...NOW, however, we have some very good ones coming through ; Hughes, Keane(yes, I know...Mackems, Irish etc),Southgate, Bruce(to a lesser degree) and, although he has a very difficult job because of finance restrictions, Mowbray. Of the older ones, you have to say that Redknapp has done a decent job at smaller clubs, Moyes is in between these groups in age, but has done well at Everton given that he also is not rolling in cash... O'Neill, despite the bias of some on here, has also done well at 3 different clubs. All in all, its hard to justify saying that a Foreign manager will guarantee success any more than a British or Irish one will ; its the calibre of man that counts AND the back-up system he works with. Incidentally, the argument that clubs that do well domestically used to struggle in Europe is not always true - NUFC know that better than anyone after winning the Fairs Cup by beating teams like Feyenoord, Sporting Lisbon, Real Zaragoza and Ujpest Dosza(who had previously hammered Leeds, the top English side of the era...part of the reason for Newcastle's success was the terrific aerial ability of Wyn Davies and the scoring feats of Robson coupled with a tough, organised defence in which 3 of the Back 4 were Internationals of high repute, but also that there was more physical contact allowed in those days.. Newcastle qualified for that tournament by finishing 10th, and getting in under the 1 club, 1 city rule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Nationality should be irelevant given the cultural mix in most premiership starting 11's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Which makes Shearers appointment all the more logical Phil Brown, Southgate, Keane all with no previous managerial experience Managed Derby for 7 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I think a lot of clubs would like foreign managers I just get the feeling most of them want to stay abroad to manage, the money in the English game if stupid and getting worse season by season. Not to menntiont hey see how short a time managers are given to get it right before being sacked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I think a lot of clubs would like foreign managers I just get the feeling most of them want to stay abroad to manage, the money in the English game if stupid and getting worse season by season. Not to menntiont hey see how short a time managers are given to get it right before being sacked. A lot longer than is usual in Spain... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Is Houllier still a free agent? I'd have him tomorrow, and i've said that every time we've lost a manager since Bobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Days of? Never occured to me it was that big a fad or that more than a handful at a time ever had one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Walter Smith? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Days of? Never occured to me it was that big a fad or that more than a handful at a time ever had one. This. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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