Roflham Lolspurs

[leffe186]

3 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

IMO they still have more than enough about them to not be 18th like.  

Yes and no.

 

One guy posted something on Spurscommunity to that effect - like, it’s our fault we didn’t accumulate 5-10 more points in the first half of the season. The problem is, that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. On Jan 1st, halfway through the season, we were in 12th on 26pts. Actually above Newcastle in the table. We played out a 0-0 draw at Brentford which was one of the worst PL games I’ve ever seen, but even then we were without Kulu, Maddison, Udogie, Bergvall, Simons, Solanke and probably others I’ve forgotten (Bissouma etc). After that things got even worse - we lost Odobert and Kudus for the season (remember that’s the six creative attacking players) and others like Bentancur for extended periods.

 

Add just 5 points to our total at that point and we’d be in 5th, which would be silly. I think Frank wasn’t up to the task, but I also think we rapidly got to the point where absolutely nobody could be. Just look at when RDZ came in. He was talking about how important Kudus and Romero would be to his style of play, then immediately Kudus was ruled out of the season before playing another game and Romero got fouled by Brobbey putting him out for the season (and getting a “sorry we fucked up” from the refs). Then he praised Solanke and Simons and immediately they both get injured and Simons at least is out for the year, not just the season.

 

It’s just incredible. I’d say you couldn’t make it up, but then I’d be worried about what’s next. We’ve got a fantastically talented kid called Luca Williams-Barnett (think along Max Dowman lines) who’d probably be starting now and on a daily basis people on Spurscommunity suggest this. Only for us all to point out he’s on crutches now having got injured last month or so.

 

I’m nearly 53 and have been watching football for nearly 50 of that. I’ve never seen anything remotely like this, and to be frank it’s genuinely affecting fans’ mental health

 

 

Edited April 27 by leffe186

[leffe186]

10 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

When did Wolves get a retractable pitch like ? 

 

7 minutes ago, SteV said:

I imagine the theory is that repeatedly playing on Spurs pitch, some how weakens the ACL long term, so it’s then more susceptible to go pop at some point, regardless of whether that time happens to be when Spurs are at home.

 

Although if you take Madison, he done his against us in America pre-season, so it had probably been months since he actually played on Spurs pitch.

That’s part of the problem, isn’t it? There are so many variables, but the situation is so unique that something is clearly wrong, and we’ve not got the luxury of time to work it out before we get relegated.

 

We all recognize that there are problems other than the injuries, but the injuries themselves make the situation untenable.

[Froggy]

53 minutes ago, leffe186 said:

I’m nearly 53 and have been watching football for nearly 50 of that. I’ve never seen anything remotely like this, and to be frank it’s genuinely affecting fans’ mental health

 

You only had to look to us not even two years ago. We had to play Casemiro as a centre back for half a season as every defender was out injured. I called it an unprecedented injury crisis at the time and probably felt the way you do right now. 

 

Spurs have had a lot of injuries but have almost always had competent replacements though and that's where I think it differs. 

 

I've just looked at the horrendous 0-3 against Forest and the team was:

 

Vicario

Spence

Danso

Romero

Van de Ven

Porro

Gray

Sarr

Tel

Richarlison

Solanke

 

That's a strong and expensive team on paper IMO. 

 

Should never be relegation threatened in a million years. 

 

[leffe186]

4 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

You only had to look to us not even two years ago. We had to play Casemiro as a centre back for half a season as every defender was out injured. I called it an unprecedented injury crisis at the time and probably felt the way you do right now. 

 

Spurs have had a lot of injuries but have almost always had competent replacements though and that's where I think it differs. 

 

I've just looked at the horrendous 0-3 against Forest and the team was:

 

Vicario

Spence

Danso

Romero

Van de Ven

Porro

Gray

Sarr

Tel

Richarlison

Solanke

 

That's a strong and expensive team on paper IMO. 

 

Should never be relegation threatened in a million years. 

 

 

(Apologies for the numbers, I've been meaning to sit down and crunch them for a while because this whole situation is blowing my mind and I needed to get my mathsy head round it.)

 

Sure, on paper. Then you look closer. There aren't any left-footers, it's arguably the 5th and 6th choice centre-midfield, and remember those 6 creative attacking players? There's only one of them on the pitch. Romero and VDV had just got back (it was Dragusin and Danso against Liverpool), and a couple others were back from layoffs. Most crucially, it was a new manager trying to make a team on the fly with 10 or more injured players and an inexperienced CM pair. New formation, new set of 11 players. We did great in the first half then it all fell apart.

 

I agree your CB situation two years ago was awful. Then you look closer. These were (roughly) your 6 CBs: Bailly, Martinez, Maguire, Lindelof, Varane, Evans. Out of 52 games between them they managed to make 154 squads. Bailly was out all season and including him on average each player gave you 25.7 games. Out of 38 league matches they made 109 matchday squads - 18.2 games each, 2.9 CBs available per game. That's pretty rough.

 

6 CBs versus those 6 creative players I mentioned - Kulu, Maddison, Simons, Odobert, Kudus, Solanke. Out of 48 games so far, they have been in the squad 126 times. That includes the 2 times Maddison has been in simply as a mascot. 21 games per player. In the league it's 90 out of 34 games - 15 games per player. Remember that all six are currently out (I'm counting Maddison as in for the numbers but he's unplayable) and four are definitely out for the season, probably six unless we have to throw Maddison in for the last game. That's what I mean by unprecedented. Those six - to fill four positions - will have been available for 126 squads while your 6 CBs - for two positions, in an absolutely historic positional injury crisis - were available for 154.

 

That's just those six. Our ideal XI would be Vicario-Porro-Romero-VDV-Udogie-Bentancur-Bissouma-Maddison-Kulu-Kudus-Solanke. Our backup XI would be Kinsky-Spence-Danso-Dragusin-Davies-Palhinha/Gray-Bergvall-Tel-Simons-Odobert-Richarlison. Total squad appearances for that first XI? 259, with 203 in the league (Less than 10 per player, over 34 games). The backups? 296 in the league.

 

You can confirm, but my guess is your ideal XI would have been something like Onana, Wan-Bissaka, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Mount, Antony, Fernandes, Garnacho, Rashford. The backups something like Bayindir, Dalot, Bailly, Maguire, Reguilon (?), Mainoo, Amrabat, McTominay, Eriksen, Martial, Hojlund (roughly). Total squad appearances for that first XI - 393, 291 in the league. The second XI - including Bailly - managed 280 in the league.

 

That is what I mean by unprecedented. If we assume Porro, VDV, Bentancur and Bissouma play every remaining game (the others are all injured) that's another 16. Roughly speaking, your first XI managed 393 games overall and 291 in the league. Your total first and second managed 777 overall - 571 in the league. That's in contrast to our likely 275, 219 in the league from the first XI and 714, 527 in the league across all 22 players.

 

275 versus 393 over all competitions. 219 versus 291 in the league. It's mental. You were having a historic injury crisis, and yet our first XI this season managed to be considerably less available than yours. I meant to do this with Newcastle's team from a couple of years back and I still may do.

 

I'm a numbers guy. I don't need a name for my pain, I need numbers. These ones are infuriating.

 

 

Edited April 27 by leffe186

[Froggy]

I do enjoy the numbers.  but you keep mentioning Bailly and he hasn't played for us for nearly five years. We're referencing the 23/24 season and Bailly left on a permanent transfer at the start of it. 

 

I do enjoy the comparison, but we finished 8th (34 points above the relegation zone) and won the FA Cup. That's my point really. 

 

 

Edited April 27 by Froggy

[leffe186]

51 minutes ago, Froggy said:

I do enjoy the numbers.  but you keep mentioning Bailly and he hasn't played for us for nearly five years. We're referencing the 23/24 season and Bailly left on a permanent transfer at the start of it. 

 

I do enjoy the comparison, but we finished 8th (34 points above the relegation zone) and won the FA Cup. That's my point really. 

 

 

 

 

Then that's hardly a crisis at all . I only put Bailly in because I presumed he was part of the injury crisis. If I put Lindelof in instead that's 31 more games overall and 21 in the league - even your second XI was more available than ours. You had critical issues in one or two positions, we've had it all over the pitch, all the time. It's infuriating because you can't even have a proper go at the manager, you're always having to think "well what the fuck else is he going to do?" And yes, we've played Palhinha at CB too  (not as much as Casemiro, I know, and he had to do so in an FA Cup semi-final. Against...oh yeah now I remember).

 

My point, once again, is that this truly is an entirely unprecedented injury crisis and when you said you felt the way we do, well, you have no idea. This is a completely untenable situation - you cannot manage a football club under these circumstances. It's so incredibly frustrating. Every week is a different squad, key players are missing week in and week out, players recovering from injury are forced to play because there's literally nobody else and every time you think you've turned a corner you get kicked in the teeth. We've made a couple of critical errors in building the squad, but that's only a part of the story. You finished 8th and won the FA Cup partly because your injury crisis was actually nowhere near as bad as ours.

 

And I finally got round to doing the Newcastle maths too. I've definitely got this a bit wrong but I'm going to use Targett as the proper back-up LB (not Dummett) - we can swap him with Hall if you like. In 23/24 I used this as the first XI - Pope, Trips, Schar, Botman, Hall, Tonali, Bruno, Joelinton, Almiron, Isak, Gordon. And this as the second XI - Dubravka, Livramento, Burn, Lascelles, Targett, Ritchie, Longstaff, Anderson, Murphy, WIlson, Barnes. Obviously Tonali wasn't injured, but I've included him anyway. If that's the case these are the scores on the doors:

 

Newcastle 23-24 (51 games): First XI squad availability 403 overall, 297 in the league. First two XIs availability 786 overall, 591 in the league

Man U 23-24 (52 games): First XI 393 and 291. First two XIs 808 and 592

Spurs 25-26 (52 games): First XI 275 and 219. First two XIs 714 and 527.

 

You both had injury crises, but ours is breaking new ground, literally. And it's been going on for three years, but I'm fucked if I'm working that all out. This is depressing enough as it is.

 

 

Edited April 27 by leffe186

[Froggy]

Not sure where to go Leffe if you don't think us having to play Casemiro and Evans at centre back is barely a crisis. Evans was signed to be a coach ffs. 

 

[leffe186]

12 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Not sure where to go Leffe if you don't think us having to play Casemiro and Evans at centre back is barely a crisis. Evans was signed to be a coach ffs. 

 

 

 

That was a joke (Edit: just checked, I even put a smiley next to it ). I said yours was a crisis - see the last paragraph. My point is that ours is on a whole new level.

 

 

Edited April 27 by leffe186

[The Butcher]

Reckon whoever bring in our medical staff will be all over these lads.

[Kilcline]

11 minutes ago, The Butcher said:

Reckon whoever bring in our medical staff will be all over these lads.

Ridiculous, everyone knows it's the magic sponge for ACLs

[TK-421]

[Theregulars]

My injury crisis is bigger than your injury crisis!

 

Spurs’ undoubtedly is the worst, mind. They’ve been missing 11 players for 2 seasons. 

[Disco]

Pls go down, thx, bye x

[SteV]

Matt Law in the Telegraph saying there’s no wage reduction clause in Simons contract.

[Joe1984]

2 minutes ago, SteV said:

Matt Law in the Telegraph saying there’s no wage reduction clause in Simons contract.

Means nothing.

 

Another paper could say there is a clause.

 

Again. Means nothing.

 

None of these 'news' outlets know...

[SteV]

13 minutes ago, Joe1984 said:

Means nothing.

 

Another paper could say there is a clause.

 

Again. Means nothing.

 

None of these 'news' outlets know...

Well no, I very much doubt they’ve seen the contract to know for sure, but he’s reporting that’s what ‘sources’ have told him.

 

Like any story, could be right, could be wrong, but Matt Law’s reasonably well-established, so you’d think he’s got half-decent sources…

[leffe186]

8 minutes ago, SteV said:

Well no, I very much doubt they’ve seen the contract to know for sure, but he’s reporting that’s what ‘sources’ have told him.

 

Like any story, could be right, could be wrong, but Matt Law’s reasonably well-established, so you’d think he’s got half-decent sources…

He’s got good sources, but he’s also got a real hard-on for us - he’s been pumping out this stuff for months. Might be true, might not, no idea. Someone at the Athletic reckons most players have relegation clauses.

[SteV]

7 minutes ago, leffe186 said:

He’s got good sources, but he’s also got a real hard-on for us - he’s been pumping out this stuff for months. Might be true, might not, no idea. Someone at the Athletic reckons most players have relegation clauses.

I would imagine most probably do. Seems like a very Levy-thing to ensure that they did. 
 

It’d be the ones signed recently that would worry me. I know Levy was still there when you signed Simons, but he was obviously on the way out, and it may have been others that took control of getting that one done. Obviously Gallagher would be the other major one on big doe you would worry about.

[leffe186]

26 minutes ago, SteV said:

I would imagine most probably do. Seems like a very Levy-thing to ensure that they did. 
 

It’d be the ones signed recently that would worry me. I know Levy was still there when you signed Simons, but he was obviously on the way out, and it may have been others that took control of getting that one done. Obviously Gallagher would be the other major one on big doe you would worry about.

Yeah, Simons would be irritating, given that he’s another who’s going to be out for months. I’m less worried about Gallagher. Either he’s got a clause, in which case that’s fine, or he hasn’t, in which case the person who was stupid enough to OK that gets fired and is no longer making any decisions

 

This seems like a decent breakdown of where we might be:

 

https://archive.is/20260429075443/https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7234117/2026/04/29/tottenham-relegation-finances-wages-bookkeeper/
 

I’m happy he spent a decent amount of time discussing our loss in value, because I barely give the slightest shit about that. He also talked about the EBITD with foreboding before confirming that it had been the fourth-best in the Premier League. The one advantage of not “panicking” in Jan is that our amortisation should be in a much better state, particularly after a Summer where you’d presume we shop out a ton of players.

 

 

Edited April 29 by leffe186

[Disco]

Looks like Solanke might be done for the season.

 

Still, good news about the Peppa Pig collab.

 

 

[Nucasol]

25 minutes ago, Disco said:

Looks like Solanke might be done for the season.

 

Still, good news about the Peppa Pig collab.

 

 

Merit relegation for that alone.

[SteV]

1 hour ago, Disco said:

Looks like Solanke might be done for the season.

 

Still, good news about the Peppa Pig collab.

 

 

[Dokko]

If they go down, would you take anyone from their team? 

 

I do wonder how much Maddison would go for considering his age and injury. Be worth a punt under £20m.

[ianbeany]

57 minutes ago, Dokko said:

If they go down, would you take anyone from their team? 

 

I do wonder how much Maddison would go for considering his age and injury. Be worth a punt under £20m.

 

I we do look at Spurs players I think it's more likely to be the likes of Solanke, Gallagher and Richarlison than their more exciting players (Maddison, Kudus, Simons)

 

(Even if the latter group weren't all injured)

[Disco]

1 hour ago, Dokko said:

If they go down, would you take anyone from their team? 

 

I do wonder how much Maddison would go for considering his age and injury. Be worth a punt under £20m.

Archie Gray