Looks like Shay is on his way

[Thespence]

The FACTS would tend to disagree.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

The real facts

 

Shay Given 11 years - No 1

 

Steve Harper 11 years - No 2

 

That should tell you all you need to know about the two.

 

Also Shay is willing to uproot as he has high standards and ambitions, Harper is happy to play 100 games or so in over 10 years as second fiddle.

 

I know who I prefer, both as a player and as a professional.

 

A noble sentiment indeed - what a great guy. Spot the difference between that and the popular view of Owen keeping his options open.

Given may or may not leave and I for one am not that bothered either way as he's a good keeper but hardly irreplaceable.

If he left for, lets say Man City, it would prove it has nothing to do with ambition but solely the money. Just like Distin did (spot the difference).

 

I very much doubt Man City's ambition starts and ends with their current state of play.

 

Aye, Hughesie has got to get the heave ho first.

[Benwell Lad]

Shay Given - great goalkeeper but nowhere near as good as the media hype. 

His best displays have been in games where we were hammered and the flow of the game was towards him, like the great shot stopper he is it was no surprise the Liverpool defeat again showed him at his best. He does not however command an area like a great goalkeeper would.

Last season was the only one I can recall where Steve Harper played enough games to make any sort of comparison and on the basis of that, Harper's record was MUCH better than Given's in terms of points gained and goals conceded.

So maybe the repacement is already there (most fans felt Harper should have started this season as first choice) and with two very able young keepers coming through eventually they are going to need to see some way to progress otherwhise we will lose them.

Shay's been a great servant - although he did spit the dummy out when he didn't get his own way, but at his age and with the cover we have in that position I'd take Man City's hand off if a stupid bid is put on the table.

 

Scary that you believe we have the quality of Given waiting in the wings

 

The FACTS would tend to back me up.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

That's a neat thing you're doing comparing Given's worst ever season (due to injury,) to what's probably Harper's best.

 

Not really. There is no other season where a reasonable comparison could be made, but 19 games each gives a chance to do so.

Whatever damned lies and statistics may portray those figures are pretty stark.

To imply a Premiership team would play someone not fit while a decent and fit keeper sat on the bench is crazy. If that was the case then Keegan really did have it in for us !

No, Given's fitness would have been tested to the limits before any game he played in.

 

You're typing s****. Stats can be manipulated in many ways to show pretty much what you want them to say.

 

Do you think the 15 goals Given conceded in 3 games against Man United x2 and Villa last season would not have been conceded had Harper been playing?

 

Those stats don't take into account the quality of opposition amongst other things.

 

 

 

Sure, stats can be manipulated but that is a whole season split 19 games each so read into it what you will.

Get away - you mean I haven't taken into account the quality of the opposition - then please do it yourself but if you'll find over a season they probably both played against the better and poorer sides equally.

If you read the post you'll see it's league games so we didn't play Man Utd THREE times in the stats.

 

Harpers games would have had us 10th Givens would have had us relegated, that's not really manipulation and even allowing for variable things it's still a pretty stark contrast.

[Benwell Lad]

The FACTS would tend to disagree.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

The real facts

 

Shay Given 11 years - No 1

 

Steve Harper 11 years - No 2

 

That should tell you all you need to know about the two.

 

Also Shay is willing to uproot as he has high standards and ambitions, Harper is happy to play 100 games or so in over 10 years as second fiddle.

 

I know who I prefer, both as a player and as a professional.

 

A noble sentiment indeed - what a great guy. Spot the difference between that and the popular view of Owen keeping his options open.

Given may or may not leave and I for one am not that bothered either way as he's a good keeper but hardly irreplaceable.

If he left for, lets say Man City, it would prove it has nothing to do with ambition but solely the money. Just like Distin did (spot the difference).

 

I very much doubt Man City's ambition starts and ends with their current state of play.

 

Does ours, or Tottenhams, or anyone else's for that matter ?  Except Hull of course.

[Wullie]

I like how you've added the two goals that Harper conceded at Villa after Shay went off injured onto Given's tally. How scientific.

[Wullie]

The FACTS would tend to disagree.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER  Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN    Played 19  Points gained  17  Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

The real facts

 

Shay Given 11 years - No 1

 

Steve Harper 11 years - No 2

 

That should tell you all you need to know about the two.

 

Also Shay is willing to uproot as he has high standards and ambitions, Harper is happy to play 100 games or so in over 10 years as second fiddle.

 

I know who I prefer, both as a player and as a professional.

 

A noble sentiment indeed - what a great guy. Spot the difference between that and the popular view of Owen keeping his options open.

Given may or may not leave and I for one am not that bothered either way as he's a good keeper but hardly irreplaceable.

If he left for, lets say Man City, it would prove it has nothing to do with ambition but solely the money. Just like Distin did (spot the difference).

 

I very much doubt Man City's ambition starts and ends with their current state of play.

 

Does ours, or Tottenhams, or anyone else's for that matter ?  Except Hull of course.

 

Ours is to stay in the Premiership and be as frugal as possible, so yes.

[Baggio]

Shay Given - great goalkeeper but nowhere near as good as the media hype. 

His best displays have been in games where we were hammered and the flow of the game was towards him, like the great shot stopper he is it was no surprise the Liverpool defeat again showed him at his best. He does not however command an area like a great goalkeeper would.

Last season was the only one I can recall where Steve Harper played enough games to make any sort of comparison and on the basis of that, Harper's record was MUCH better than Given's in terms of points gained and goals conceded.

So maybe the repacement is already there (most fans felt Harper should have started this season as first choice) and with two very able young keepers coming through eventually they are going to need to see some way to progress otherwhise we will lose them.

Shay's been a great servant - although he did spit the dummy out when he didn't get his own way, but at his age and with the cover we have in that position I'd take Man City's hand off if a stupid bid is put on the table.

 

Scary that you believe we have the quality of Given waiting in the wings

 

The FACTS would tend to back me up.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

That's a neat thing you're doing comparing Given's worst ever season (due to injury,) to what's probably Harper's best.

 

Not really. There is no other season where a reasonable comparison could be made, but 19 games each gives a chance to do so.

Whatever damned lies and statistics may portray those figures are pretty stark.

To imply a Premiership team would play someone not fit while a decent and fit keeper sat on the bench is crazy. If that was the case then Keegan really did have it in for us !

No, Given's fitness would have been tested to the limits before any game he played in.

 

You're typing s****. Stats can be manipulated in many ways to show pretty much what you want them to say.

 

Do you think the 15 goals Given conceded in 3 games against Man United x2 and Villa last season would not have been conceded had Harper been playing?

 

Those stats don't take into account the quality of opposition amongst other things.

 

 

 

Sure, stats can be manipulated but that is a whole season split 19 games each so read into it what you will.

Get away - you mean I haven't taken into account the quality of the opposition - then please do it yourself but if you'll find over a season they probably both played against the better and poorer sides equally.

If you read the post you'll see it's league games so we didn't play Man Utd THREE times in the stats.[b/]

 

Harpers games would have had us 10th Givens would have had us relegated, that's not really manipulation and even allowing for variable things it's still a pretty stark contrast.

 

What on earth are you on about?

 

There are so many factors not taken into account here, you seem to think that we only field one player in every game, that being a 'keeper.

 

I still haven't forgotten about your Scott Parker stats thread, greg.

[Greg]

Shay Given - great goalkeeper but nowhere near as good as the media hype. 

His best displays have been in games where we were hammered and the flow of the game was towards him, like the great shot stopper he is it was no surprise the Liverpool defeat again showed him at his best. He does not however command an area like a great goalkeeper would.

Last season was the only one I can recall where Steve Harper played enough games to make any sort of comparison and on the basis of that, Harper's record was MUCH better than Given's in terms of points gained and goals conceded.

So maybe the repacement is already there (most fans felt Harper should have started this season as first choice) and with two very able young keepers coming through eventually they are going to need to see some way to progress otherwhise we will lose them.

Shay's been a great servant - although he did spit the dummy out when he didn't get his own way, but at his age and with the cover we have in that position I'd take Man City's hand off if a stupid bid is put on the table.

 

Scary that you believe we have the quality of Given waiting in the wings

 

The FACTS would tend to back me up.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

That's a neat thing you're doing comparing Given's worst ever season (due to injury,) to what's probably Harper's best.

 

Not really. There is no other season where a reasonable comparison could be made, but 19 games each gives a chance to do so.

Whatever damned lies and statistics may portray those figures are pretty stark.

To imply a Premiership team would play someone not fit while a decent and fit keeper sat on the bench is crazy. If that was the case then Keegan really did have it in for us !

No, Given's fitness would have been tested to the limits before any game he played in.

 

You're typing s****. Stats can be manipulated in many ways to show pretty much what you want them to say.

 

Do you think the 15 goals Given conceded in 3 games against Man United x2 and Villa last season would not have been conceded had Harper been playing?

 

Those stats don't take into account the quality of opposition amongst other things.

 

 

 

Sure, stats can be manipulated but that is a whole season split 19 games each so read into it what you will.

Get away - you mean I haven't taken into account the quality of the opposition - then please do it yourself but if you'll find over a season they probably both played against the better and poorer sides equally.

If you read the post you'll see it's league games so we didn't play Man Utd THREE times in the stats.

 

Harpers games would have had us 10th Givens would have had us relegated, that's not really manipulation and even allowing for variable things it's still a pretty stark contrast.

 

If you can't see that there is a lot more to it than that then you're just not worth arguing the point with.

[Greg]

Shay Given - great goalkeeper but nowhere near as good as the media hype. 

His best displays have been in games where we were hammered and the flow of the game was towards him, like the great shot stopper he is it was no surprise the Liverpool defeat again showed him at his best. He does not however command an area like a great goalkeeper would.

Last season was the only one I can recall where Steve Harper played enough games to make any sort of comparison and on the basis of that, Harper's record was MUCH better than Given's in terms of points gained and goals conceded.

So maybe the repacement is already there (most fans felt Harper should have started this season as first choice) and with two very able young keepers coming through eventually they are going to need to see some way to progress otherwhise we will lose them.

Shay's been a great servant - although he did spit the dummy out when he didn't get his own way, but at his age and with the cover we have in that position I'd take Man City's hand off if a stupid bid is put on the table.

 

Scary that you believe we have the quality of Given waiting in the wings

 

The FACTS would tend to back me up.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

That's a neat thing you're doing comparing Given's worst ever season (due to injury,) to what's probably Harper's best.

 

Not really. There is no other season where a reasonable comparison could be made, but 19 games each gives a chance to do so.

Whatever damned lies and statistics may portray those figures are pretty stark.

To imply a Premiership team would play someone not fit while a decent and fit keeper sat on the bench is crazy. If that was the case then Keegan really did have it in for us !

No, Given's fitness would have been tested to the limits before any game he played in.

 

You're typing s****. Stats can be manipulated in many ways to show pretty much what you want them to say.

 

Do you think the 15 goals Given conceded in 3 games against Man United x2 and Villa last season would not have been conceded had Harper been playing?

 

Those stats don't take into account the quality of opposition amongst other things.

 

 

 

Sure, stats can be manipulated but that is a whole season split 19 games each so read into it what you will.

Get away - you mean I haven't taken into account the quality of the opposition - then please do it yourself but if you'll find over a season they probably both played against the better and poorer sides equally.

If you read the post you'll see it's league games so we didn't play Man Utd THREE times in the stats.[b/]

 

Harpers games would have had us 10th Givens would have had us relegated, that's not really manipulation and even allowing for variable things it's still a pretty stark contrast.

 

What on earth are you on about?

 

There are so many factors not taken into account here, you seem to think that we only field one player in every game, that being a 'keeper.

 

I still haven't forgotten about your Scott Parker stats thread, greg.

 

Aye.... When you've got an agenda you can make stats say whatever the f*** you want them to.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

The FACTS would tend to back me up.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

That has to be one of the most idiotic posts I've ever read on here. 

[Thespence]

Benny Lad damage limitation time don't reply & get the hell out of the thread.

[Benwell Lad]

I like how you've added the two goals that Harper conceded at Villa after Shay went off injured onto Given's tally. How scientific.

 

Please ammend as you see fit, I did it quickly on games they started , but if you want that incuded it means Harper conceded 1.28 goals per game and Given conceded 2.16 per game instead of 1.21 and 2.21 respectively.  Is that OK ?

 

P.S. The point of this was not to achieve a maths degree but to illustrate that if Given chooses to leave it won't be the end of the world as have quite a decent goalkeper in Harper.

[Thespence]

P.S. The point of this was not to achieve a maths degree but to illustrate that if Given chooses to leave it won't be the end of the world as have quite a decent goalkeper in Harper.

 

Which is a fair point but Shay has been really good this year back to something near his best, which for me puts him way ahead of Harps.

[Benwell Lad]

 

The FACTS would tend to back me up.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

That has to be one of the most idiotic posts I've ever read on here. 

 

There were actually two other posts above the reply you've quoted, which you have conveniently edited it to make it look "idiotic" as a stand alone statement.

[Wullie]

P.S. The point of this was not to achieve a maths degree but to illustrate that if Given chooses to leave it won't be the end of the world as have quite a decent goalkeper in Harper.

 

Which is a fair point but Shay has been really good this year back to something near his best, which for me puts him way ahead of Harps.

 

 

I've always said that Harper is a very good goalkeeper. He's not as good as Shay though imo, not to mention that selling our best players at their peak sends out a very clear message. To me as a Newcastle fan, Given is a lot more than just someone who picks up a payslip from the club in the same way that Shearer was and one of the last people that I would want to see leave.

[Slim]

Really the amount of people who over rate Harper is crazy.  I hear people saying oh hes England number one etc.  Every time i see him he look like an average prem keeper.

[Wullie]

Just to put your stats into perspective btw, in the league Shay played against the top four six times to Harper's two, including two absolute maulings off Man Utd to the tune of 11 goals.

[Wullie]

Really the amount of people who over rate Harper is crazy.  I hear people saying oh hes England number one etc.  Every time i see him he look like an average prem keeper.

 

As opposed to the current contenders for the England jersey?

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

The FACTS would tend to back me up.

 

Last season's records league records.

 

HARPER   Played 19  Points gained  26  Goals for 26 Goals against 23. Average goals conceded per game 1.21 - record extrapolated over full season  - 52 points -  i.e 10th in league.

 

GIVEN     Played 19  Points gained  17   Goals for 19 Goals against 42. Average goals conceded per game  2,21 - record extrapolated over full season -  34 points - i.e 19th in league (relegation)

 

That has to be one of the most idiotic posts I've ever read on here. 

 

There were actually two other posts above the reply you've quoted, which you have conveniently edited it to make it look "idiotic" as a stand alone statement.

 

It still looks idiotic even if you read those two as well.

[Benwell Lad]

P.S. The point of this was not to achieve a maths degree but to illustrate that if Given chooses to leave it won't be the end of the world as have quite a decent goalkeper in Harper.

 

Which is a fair point but Shay has been really good this year back to something near his best, which for me puts him way ahead of Harps.

 

Which is your opinion and one shared by many other supporters. Fair do's.

However now his agent (lawyer?) implies he wants to leave, as players at all clubs tend to from time to time, but because it's Newcastle it's because we have no ambition, and Freddie would never have allowed it to happen, and now we're back in the dark days of McKeag and Seymour, (Not necessarily your opinion).

At least Man Utd fans said "stuff him " when Ronaldo or his agent decided he wanted move.

 

[Baggio]

Forgetting stats for a minute, quite a few on here (me included) were more than happy with the contribution Harper made when he was in goal last season and thought he deserved to keep his place in goal.

[Guest firetotheworks]

This thread just goes to show that no player is beyond debate on here. Its Shay Given for fucks sake. His quality goes without saying. Fuck the stats, its obvious the class he has.

[Guest fraser]

The idea of him playing for Tottenham makes my blood boil. Hopefully not.

 

people like you are going to have to get used to the idea that clubs like Spurs think bigger, act bigger than we do.

 

This is why Gazza and Waddle went there for that reason, despite what other people that say they are long term supporters will tell you.

 

The blip of the Halls and Shepherd, where we correctly punched our weight above clubs like this, is well and truly over.

 

 

 

Gazza, Waddle, Jenas....

 

:colo:

 

you're a fool if you seriously think the sale of Jeanarse and the circmstances of it compares to those of Waddle and Gazza.

 

 

 

Jenas left here because he thought he'd "hit a ceiling" and wanted to move on because Spurs were on the way up.

 

You can try and write it off and say he doesn't count but he clearly does.

 

a player with no particular affinity or feeling for the club, moving on after a few years ?

 

No. I don't think so.

 

Look at your history books, and read about Gazza, Waddle and Beardsley going.......and Pop Robson before that. Similar reasons to Given, but I'm sure you know better than those who witnessed it.

 

Bye.

 

 

 

 

 

We sold Jenas because he wanted to go and he was no great loss.

 

The causes and effects of selling Beardsley, Waddle and Gascoigne were far greater and more profound. It showed what sort of club we were, at that time, and to that extent I agree with what NE5 has to say in respect of it.

[ChezGiven]

As the Liverpool game perfectly illustrated you can have a world class keeper playing out of his skin and still get raped from behind. The time might be right for him to go if the price allows us to spend on some quality players.

 

However, i have a sneaking feeling that the public comments are designed to increase pressure on Ashley to spend ambitiously in the transfer market. Shay is settled in the North-east and by all accounts loves living up here.

[Thespence]

Which is your opinion and one shared by many other supporters. Fair do's.

However now his agent (lawyer?) implies he wants to leave, as players at all clubs tend to from time to time, but because it's Newcastle it's because we have no ambition, and Freddie would never have allowed it to happen, and now we're back in the dark days of McKeag and Seymour, (Not necessarily your opinion).

At least Man Utd fans said "stuff him " when Ronaldo or his agent decided he wanted move.

 

My user name is Thespence not NE5 (Not necessarily saying you have got us mixed up though). In the statement it did mention  "turmoil on and off the pitch" which is very sad, does it mean he thinks we lack quality? the size of the squad is small?.

 

I am not 100% sure all Man Utd fans said stuff him.

[Fatwax]

Which is your opinion and one shared by many other supporters. Fair do's.

However now his agent (lawyer?) implies he wants to leave, as players at all clubs tend to from time to time, but because it's Newcastle it's because we have no ambition, and Freddie would never have allowed it to happen, and now we're back in the dark days of McKeag and Seymour, (Not necessarily your opinion).

At least Man Utd fans said "stuff him " when Ronaldo or his agent decided he wanted move.

 

My user name is Thespence not NE5 (Not necessarily saying you have got us mixed up though). In the statement it did mention  "turmoil on and off the pitch" which is very sad, does it mean he thinks we lack quality? the size of the squad is small?.

 

I am not 100% sure all Man Utd fans said stuff him.

 

I know quite a few Man Utd fans (none actually with any connection to Manchester itself, like) and every single one had that attitude towards the thought of C. Ronaldo leaving for Real Madrid. it's as if they had no connection to the player or what he achieved last season.  There's no doubt that Fergie had a massive influence on the player that he's become, but still.