The Kevin Keegan thread

[ChezGiven]

keegan isn't a top calibre manager, but to suggest that he's a mediocre manager who managed to fluke a few wins is ridiculous. he's a very good manager with some flaws that stop from him ever reaching the heights of a Wenger or Ferguson. And those flaws mean he's not going to win the major competitions which is quite different from the kind of flaws that Souness or Roeder or Kinnear had which are more likely to take you down. So it really depends on what you mean by "things get tough" - relegation battle or uefa cup scrap? he'll be fine. But the fact he was good enough to even be in a position to challenge for the league means he was a bloody good manager, even if he failed to attain that target. better than the likes of Hughes or Curbishley or Bruce but not at the level of a Benitez. Comparable to someone like O'Neill really.

 

I like that.

[PRL]

As you get older and wiser, you learn to be more careful about who you fall in love with. There are glamorous people who promise the earth but are in reality selfish. They end up leaving and hurting you. There are others less attractive who end up delivering the goods. You can carry on not learning the lesson, parading your bleeding heart like it's a badge of honour and end up like a battered wife, or you can build a real relationship. That takes time and patience, of course.

 

Caulkin's articles are like a Chinese meal. Superficially good but lacking substance.

 

Football isn't only about dreaming, it's about winning. Keegan has won nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien.

 

Apologies to go back to this post, but only just updating myself on this thread. Aside from this being a rather patronising post (look at me, i'm a cynic, i know better than you,but one day you'll learn young padowan) can I ask who the people you fell in love with at Newcastle are, Bob? Not to touch a sensitive area, but i'm guessing you are older than a lot on here, but unless you're over 50 I doubt you have many memories of us winning anything more meaningful than the first (second) division under Keegan and even if over 50, to have allowed yourself to only fall in love with one Newcastle team / manager must be a pretty depressing state of affairs for a big football fan, i'd honestly question why you even bother.

 

To further your analogy and make it slightly more specific as one of the comments on the discussed article did, I'd rather have fucked Cheryl Cole in the face a few times and have the photos to prove it, even if that meant getting dumped for Ashley fricking Cole and humiliated. As your analogy feels pretty much like one tired cliche, here's another - better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. If someone told me we could have one trophy but none of the Keegan years I know which I would choose. Do you think being a Portsmouth fan and having won an FA Cup against Cardiff would make you feel more excited about the game than watching our team in the 90s?

[Tooj]

On a general point, when I say that Keegan isn't a winner, that's not a reference to the fact that he hasn't won a major trophy. I'm talking about his mentality, which is more that of a glory hunter, and therefore rather flaky.

 

Sometimes a mediocre manager can fluke a win, and sometimes a good manager can get unlucky and just come up short. Keegan's failure is down to more than bad luck IMO.

 

We only came close to winning something (major) once under Keegan. I don't recall us doing anything in the cups - not even getting to a quarter-final. It was certainly the only season when we came close to winning the league. And the flaws in the Keegan make-up were exposed. It was what Fergie called squeaky-bottom time, when a team has to grind out a result under pressure. All Keegan had in his armoury was the cavalry charge, and when things get tough, that's not enough.

 

I'm sure that when he was a player his mentality was one of the reasons why he achieved so much.

[Isegrim]

As you get older and wiser, you learn to be more careful about who you fall in love with. There are glamorous people who promise the earth but are in reality selfish. They end up leaving and hurting you. There are others less attractive who end up delivering the goods. You can carry on not learning the lesson, parading your bleeding heart like it's a badge of honour and end up like a battered wife, or you can build a real relationship. That takes time and patience, of course.

 

Caulkin's articles are like a Chinese meal. Superficially good but lacking substance.

 

Football isn't only about dreaming, it's about winning. Keegan has won nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien.

 

 

 

He's a shrewd journalist in that he realises that you can win just as many readers by writing what people want to hear as you can by writing a load of controversial, complaint inspiring nonsense like the majority of journalists do.

 

That article is just that, what a lot of people want to hear.

Or what some spoilt numpties don't like to hear...

 

The last sentence of bobyule wasn't there when I first replied. What a load of nonsense. Reducing Keegan's managerial credentials on a lack of trophies is so ignorant that you hardly can take it serious.

 

Anyway. Football isn't about winning, it's about how you play. © Johan Cruijff

 

I'd agree the last sentence of bobyule's post isn't right at all.

 

Well taking a look at the records, I see that Cruyff won 24 trophies as a player, and 11 as a manager. You don't get a haul like that if winning isn't important to you.

 

Winning shouldn't be the only thing, but it is important. Surely.

 

There's a difference between being a good manager and being a winner. A winner has a bit of steel which takes them through the inevitably dodgy times when things aren't going well and everyone's saying how crap you are. It also helps if you have good ideas and good judgement that you feel you can rely on. That way when you're under pressure you still think clearly.

 

For me, Keegan fails on both counts.

 

Don't agree with you there bob. I think Keegan always had a very clear vision of what he wanted and to his credit he never wavered from it in that for him football had to be about entertainment. He isn't flawless by any means but he was never fuzzy on that one.

 

Well fair point, but the entertainment at all costs is a bit of a cop-out, because no-one likes losing. When Keegan had his head in his hands when Liverpool beat us 4-3, he wasn't thinking, what an entertaining game. He was hurting.

 

I guess you could describe the commitment to attacking football at all times, and the neglect of defence, a 'clear vision'. But there are times when the brave decision is to batten down the hatches and admit that victory is the most important. I don't know if you saw the 'Time of Our Lives' programme with Ginola, Bez and Howey, but they oozed frustration at the team's inability to finish the job. Charging forward at all times can be like a refusal to face up to the situation you're really in. You can say afterwards, 'We may have lost but we had a good go', but it's like you're denying how important winning really is to you.

 

I've said this before, but the game that really cost us was Blackburn away, about a month before the end of the season, and it really epitomised what was lacking in Keegan's approach. If you remember, we went 1-0 up with 10 minutes to go, and all of a sudden we were back in pole position in the race with Man U. (If we'd won, we'd have gone into the final home match only needing a win to make sure of the title)

 

What happened though was the most awesome collective nervous breakdown. We were absolutely terrible, needing a tactical decision but not getting one. We needed to defend, but we didn't have the mentality or the nous to do that. We were also too nervous to attack, and ended up conceding two soft goals.

 

I guess that the failure to decide to defend, or to prepare any kind of defensive strategy on Keegan's part, wasn't a sign of strength. It was weakness. Or a lack of brains.

was it weakness or lack of brains that lead alex ferguson to blow a real 12point lead over arsenal  2 seasons later ?

Was it weakness or lack of brains when Ottmar OMG Hitzfeld blew a 1-0 lead in a European Cup Final in injury time?

[Mowen]

We just failed to win the league title in 95/96, but what a glorious failure it was. Its well remembered and not just by newcastle fans.

 

Enjoy the memories, because we wont see anything like it again

 

 

 

Glorious, was it? I'd say agonising and humiliating, and we still bear the scars. Our nerve failed us when the prize was well within our grasp. If Man U's late charge for the title had ended in failure, that could maybe have been called glorious.

 

 

 

Yeah, what a shit time to be an NUFC fan

 

Humiliating? Fucking hell man, we were the second best team in the country playing the most attractive football. We got edged out by a very, very good team who were only slightly better than us. It's the best we've been since the 1920s.

[Cronky]

As you get older and wiser, you learn to be more careful about who you fall in love with. There are glamorous people who promise the earth but are in reality selfish. They end up leaving and hurting you. There are others less attractive who end up delivering the goods. You can carry on not learning the lesson, parading your bleeding heart like it's a badge of honour and end up like a battered wife, or you can build a real relationship. That takes time and patience, of course.

 

Caulkin's articles are like a Chinese meal. Superficially good but lacking substance.

 

Football isn't only about dreaming, it's about winning. Keegan has won nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien.

 

 

 

He's a shrewd journalist in that he realises that you can win just as many readers by writing what people want to hear as you can by writing a load of controversial, complaint inspiring nonsense like the majority of journalists do.

 

That article is just that, what a lot of people want to hear.

Or what some spoilt numpties don't like to hear...

 

The last sentence of bobyule wasn't there when I first replied. What a load of nonsense. Reducing Keegan's managerial credentials on a lack of trophies is so ignorant that you hardly can take it serious.

 

Anyway. Football isn't about winning, it's about how you play. © Johan Cruijff

 

I'd agree the last sentence of bobyule's post isn't right at all.

 

Well taking a look at the records, I see that Cruyff won 24 trophies as a player, and 11 as a manager. You don't get a haul like that if winning isn't important to you.

 

Winning shouldn't be the only thing, but it is important. Surely.

 

There's a difference between being a good manager and being a winner. A winner has a bit of steel which takes them through the inevitably dodgy times when things aren't going well and everyone's saying how crap you are. It also helps if you have good ideas and good judgement that you feel you can rely on. That way when you're under pressure you still think clearly.

 

For me, Keegan fails on both counts.

 

Don't agree with you there bob. I think Keegan always had a very clear vision of what he wanted and to his credit he never wavered from it in that for him football had to be about entertainment. He isn't flawless by any means but he was never fuzzy on that one.

 

Well fair point, but the entertainment at all costs is a bit of a cop-out, because no-one likes losing. When Keegan had his head in his hands when Liverpool beat us 4-3, he wasn't thinking, what an entertaining game. He was hurting.

 

I guess you could describe the commitment to attacking football at all times, and the neglect of defence, a 'clear vision'. But there are times when the brave decision is to batten down the hatches and admit that victory is the most important. I don't know if you saw the 'Time of Our Lives' programme with Ginola, Bez and Howey, but they oozed frustration at the team's inability to finish the job. Charging forward at all times can be like a refusal to face up to the situation you're really in. You can say afterwards, 'We may have lost but we had a good go', but it's like you're denying how important winning really is to you.

 

I've said this before, but the game that really cost us was Blackburn away, about a month before the end of the season, and it really epitomised what was lacking in Keegan's approach. If you remember, we went 1-0 up with 10 minutes to go, and all of a sudden we were back in pole position in the race with Man U. (If we'd won, we'd have gone into the final home match only needing a win to make sure of the title)

 

What happened though was the most awesome collective nervous breakdown. We were absolutely terrible, needing a tactical decision but not getting one. We needed to defend, but we didn't have the mentality or the nous to do that. We were also too nervous to attack, and ended up conceding two soft goals.

 

I guess that the failure to decide to defend, or to prepare any kind of defensive strategy on Keegan's part, wasn't a sign of strength. It was weakness. Or a lack of brains.

was it weakness or lack of brains that lead alex ferguson to blow a real 12point lead over arsenal  2 seasons later ?

Was it weakness or lack of brains when Ottmar OMG Hitzfeld blew a 1-0 lead in a European Cup Final in injury time?

 

I can't remember what happened with Fergie and Arsenal, but I doubt if it was a lack of nerve. You don't win 40 odd trophies without knowing how to close things out.

 

With Bayern, I'd say it was bad luck. They were the better side and should have won. That kind of thing can happen in football.

 

I can't see the relevance here. Yes, it is possible to lose a lead for reasons other than bottling. That doesn't in itself invalidate my opinion on Keegan in 1996.

[madras]

As you get older and wiser, you learn to be more careful about who you fall in love with. There are glamorous people who promise the earth but are in reality selfish. They end up leaving and hurting you. There are others less attractive who end up delivering the goods. You can carry on not learning the lesson, parading your bleeding heart like it's a badge of honour and end up like a battered wife, or you can build a real relationship. That takes time and patience, of course.

 

Caulkin's articles are like a Chinese meal. Superficially good but lacking substance.

 

Football isn't only about dreaming, it's about winning. Keegan has won nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien.

 

 

 

He's a shrewd journalist in that he realises that you can win just as many readers by writing what people want to hear as you can by writing a load of controversial, complaint inspiring nonsense like the majority of journalists do.

 

That article is just that, what a lot of people want to hear.

Or what some spoilt numpties don't like to hear...

 

The last sentence of bobyule wasn't there when I first replied. What a load of nonsense. Reducing Keegan's managerial credentials on a lack of trophies is so ignorant that you hardly can take it serious.

 

Anyway. Football isn't about winning, it's about how you play. © Johan Cruijff

 

I'd agree the last sentence of bobyule's post isn't right at all.

 

Well taking a look at the records, I see that Cruyff won 24 trophies as a player, and 11 as a manager. You don't get a haul like that if winning isn't important to you.

 

Winning shouldn't be the only thing, but it is important. Surely.

 

There's a difference between being a good manager and being a winner. A winner has a bit of steel which takes them through the inevitably dodgy times when things aren't going well and everyone's saying how crap you are. It also helps if you have good ideas and good judgement that you feel you can rely on. That way when you're under pressure you still think clearly.

 

For me, Keegan fails on both counts.

 

Don't agree with you there bob. I think Keegan always had a very clear vision of what he wanted and to his credit he never wavered from it in that for him football had to be about entertainment. He isn't flawless by any means but he was never fuzzy on that one.

 

Well fair point, but the entertainment at all costs is a bit of a cop-out, because no-one likes losing. When Keegan had his head in his hands when Liverpool beat us 4-3, he wasn't thinking, what an entertaining game. He was hurting.

 

I guess you could describe the commitment to attacking football at all times, and the neglect of defence, a 'clear vision'. But there are times when the brave decision is to batten down the hatches and admit that victory is the most important. I don't know if you saw the 'Time of Our Lives' programme with Ginola, Bez and Howey, but they oozed frustration at the team's inability to finish the job. Charging forward at all times can be like a refusal to face up to the situation you're really in. You can say afterwards, 'We may have lost but we had a good go', but it's like you're denying how important winning really is to you.

 

I've said this before, but the game that really cost us was Blackburn away, about a month before the end of the season, and it really epitomised what was lacking in Keegan's approach. If you remember, we went 1-0 up with 10 minutes to go, and all of a sudden we were back in pole position in the race with Man U. (If we'd won, we'd have gone into the final home match only needing a win to make sure of the title)

 

What happened though was the most awesome collective nervous breakdown. We were absolutely terrible, needing a tactical decision but not getting one. We needed to defend, but we didn't have the mentality or the nous to do that. We were also too nervous to attack, and ended up conceding two soft goals.

 

I guess that the failure to decide to defend, or to prepare any kind of defensive strategy on Keegan's part, wasn't a sign of strength. It was weakness. Or a lack of brains.

was it weakness or lack of brains that lead alex ferguson to blow a real 12point lead over arsenal  2 seasons later ?

Was it weakness or lack of brains when Ottmar OMG Hitzfeld blew a 1-0 lead in a European Cup Final in injury time?

 

I can't remember what happened with Fergie and Arsenal, but I doubt if it was a lack of nerve. You don't win 40 odd trophies without knowing how to close things out.

 

With Bayern, I'd say it was bad luck. They were the better side and should have won. That kind of thing can happen in football.

 

I can't see the relevance here. Yes, it is possible to lose a lead for reasons other than bottling. That doesn't in itself invalidate my opinion on Keegan in 1996.

so when newcastle lose a 12 point lead it's lack of nerve, when man utd do it must be something else ?

[geordiedean]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby cunt isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A cunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mowen]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby cunt isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A cunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[madras]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby c*** isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A c***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now i'm a keegan lover ?

 

seems like my work here is done. i've found a position on which i can disagree with everyone seemingly on all sides.

[Mowen]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby c*** isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A c***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now i'm a keegan lover ?

 

seems like my work here is done. i've found a position on which i can disagree with everyone seemingly on all sides.

 

That's basically the utopia, even Vic couldn't do that.

[ewerk]

he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness

 

The question is, how many other managers could have taken us from where we were to challenging for the PL and would have taken the job? I can't think of too many.

 

Some people are saying that Keegan was a failure, well, in comparison to who? Apart from our time under Keegan and SBR we've been pretty shite for the past 30 years. Yes, Keegan didn't deliver the league but he came closer than anyone else did for a long, long time.

[madras]

he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness

 

The question is, how many other managers could have taken us from where we were to challenging for the PL and would have taken the job? I can't think of too many.

 

Some people are saying that Keegan was a failure, well, in comparison to who? Apart from our time under Keegan and SBR we've been pretty s**** for the past 30 years. Yes, Keegan didn't deliver the league but he came closer than anyone else did for a long, long time.

no win for keegan. had we lost the title (which was more down to man utds amazing end of season run) after he'd went a bit more conservative he'd have been castigated then. it does seem a bit strange that people would want a change from the tactics that got us into that position to start with.

[Darth Crooks]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby c*** isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A c***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Agree with some of this, like the money issue and flawed level of pride. What puzzles me is the use of the term winner which is banded about so much in football. Is this is the same definition of winner that gets applied to the likes Roy Keane by the media when they're plainly just being dirty b@stards? He's often defined a as a winner yet in management terms i thinks he's a shower of shite. I don't buy it that Keegan is a chancer, he is a good coach that has unfortunately for us not been able to cope with other people calling the shots, rightly or wrongly. I think its terrible he's trying to get that amount money from us at a time like this and thank him for times gone by but can't help but feel a bit of distain about this whole fiasco

[Paully]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby c*** isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A c***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

And you are a NUFc fan?

 

Dear me.

 

If it wasn't for 'the grade A cunt' then I doubt you'd have a club to support.

[Isegrim]

As you get older and wiser, you learn to be more careful about who you fall in love with. There are glamorous people who promise the earth but are in reality selfish. They end up leaving and hurting you. There are others less attractive who end up delivering the goods. You can carry on not learning the lesson, parading your bleeding heart like it's a badge of honour and end up like a battered wife, or you can build a real relationship. That takes time and patience, of course.

 

Caulkin's articles are like a Chinese meal. Superficially good but lacking substance.

 

Football isn't only about dreaming, it's about winning. Keegan has won nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien.

 

 

 

He's a shrewd journalist in that he realises that you can win just as many readers by writing what people want to hear as you can by writing a load of controversial, complaint inspiring nonsense like the majority of journalists do.

 

That article is just that, what a lot of people want to hear.

Or what some spoilt numpties don't like to hear...

 

The last sentence of bobyule wasn't there when I first replied. What a load of nonsense. Reducing Keegan's managerial credentials on a lack of trophies is so ignorant that you hardly can take it serious.

 

Anyway. Football isn't about winning, it's about how you play. © Johan Cruijff

 

I'd agree the last sentence of bobyule's post isn't right at all.

 

Well taking a look at the records, I see that Cruyff won 24 trophies as a player, and 11 as a manager. You don't get a haul like that if winning isn't important to you.

 

Winning shouldn't be the only thing, but it is important. Surely.

 

There's a difference between being a good manager and being a winner. A winner has a bit of steel which takes them through the inevitably dodgy times when things aren't going well and everyone's saying how crap you are. It also helps if you have good ideas and good judgement that you feel you can rely on. That way when you're under pressure you still think clearly.

 

For me, Keegan fails on both counts.

 

Don't agree with you there bob. I think Keegan always had a very clear vision of what he wanted and to his credit he never wavered from it in that for him football had to be about entertainment. He isn't flawless by any means but he was never fuzzy on that one.

 

Well fair point, but the entertainment at all costs is a bit of a cop-out, because no-one likes losing. When Keegan had his head in his hands when Liverpool beat us 4-3, he wasn't thinking, what an entertaining game. He was hurting.

 

I guess you could describe the commitment to attacking football at all times, and the neglect of defence, a 'clear vision'. But there are times when the brave decision is to batten down the hatches and admit that victory is the most important. I don't know if you saw the 'Time of Our Lives' programme with Ginola, Bez and Howey, but they oozed frustration at the team's inability to finish the job. Charging forward at all times can be like a refusal to face up to the situation you're really in. You can say afterwards, 'We may have lost but we had a good go', but it's like you're denying how important winning really is to you.

 

I've said this before, but the game that really cost us was Blackburn away, about a month before the end of the season, and it really epitomised what was lacking in Keegan's approach. If you remember, we went 1-0 up with 10 minutes to go, and all of a sudden we were back in pole position in the race with Man U. (If we'd won, we'd have gone into the final home match only needing a win to make sure of the title)

 

What happened though was the most awesome collective nervous breakdown. We were absolutely terrible, needing a tactical decision but not getting one. We needed to defend, but we didn't have the mentality or the nous to do that. We were also too nervous to attack, and ended up conceding two soft goals.

 

I guess that the failure to decide to defend, or to prepare any kind of defensive strategy on Keegan's part, wasn't a sign of strength. It was weakness. Or a lack of brains.

was it weakness or lack of brains that lead alex ferguson to blow a real 12point lead over arsenal  2 seasons later ?

Was it weakness or lack of brains when Ottmar OMG Hitzfeld blew a 1-0 lead in a European Cup Final in injury time?

 

I can't remember what happened with Fergie and Arsenal, but I doubt if it was a lack of nerve. You don't win 40 odd trophies without knowing how to close things out.

 

With Bayern, I'd say it was bad luck. They were the better side and should have won. That kind of thing can happen in football.

 

I can't see the relevance here. Yes, it is possible to lose a lead for reasons other than bottling. That doesn't in itself invalidate my opinion on Keegan in 1996.

so when newcastle lose a 12 point lead it's lack of nerve, when man utd do it must be something else ?

 

It doesn't fit into his world view so it has to be ignored. Others have bad luck with Keegan it is lack of ability.

 

Instead of judging the actual achievements under the circumstances and in this kind of style looking for the flaws is a bit simplistic and unfair if you ask me, espercially when persisting on those stupid myths of the 12 point lead and the poor defensive record. I am not sure or rather seriously doubt that any other manager would have been able to achieve the same with Newcastle in these years.

[Darth Crooks]

I was those oh-so-clever 'Mind Games' anyhow 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Personally I blame Phil Neville for costing us the league.

 

If he hadn't crippled Gillespie at OT I'm 100% convinced that we would have gathered at least naother 6 points that season

[UV]

As you get older and wiser, you learn to be more careful about who you fall in love with. There are glamorous people who promise the earth but are in reality selfish. They end up leaving and hurting you. There are others less attractive who end up delivering the goods. You can carry on not learning the lesson, parading your bleeding heart like it's a badge of honour and end up like a battered wife, or you can build a real relationship. That takes time and patience, of course.

 

Football isn't only about dreaming, it's about winning.

 

If you honestly believe that, you already know what you need to do. Take your own advice, get a divorce and move on. Start looking for a new love who will give you what you want.

 

Let me help, I know one that's looking to hook up with someone just like you: http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/index.php.

 

Good luck.

[OzzieMandias]

On a general point, when I say that Keegan isn't a winner, that's not a reference to the fact that he hasn't won a major trophy. I'm talking about his mentality, which is more that of a glory hunter, and therefore rather flaky.

 

Sometimes a mediocre manager can fluke a win, and sometimes a good manager can get unlucky and just come up short. Keegan's failure is down to more than bad luck IMO.

 

We only came close to winning something (major) once under Keegan. I don't recall us doing anything in the cups - not even getting to a quarter-final. It was certainly the only season when we came close to winning the league. And the flaws in the Keegan make-up were exposed. It was what Fergie called squeaky-bottom time, when a team has to grind out a result under pressure. All Keegan had in his armoury was the cavalry charge, and when things get tough, that's not enough.

 

I'm sure that when he was a player his mentality was one of the reasons why he achieved so much.

 

It definitely was.

 

But people change, or are changed. I think his confidence has taken a battering. He never seemed quite the same after the "just love it" outburst. Various other things have happened since. The sheer elemental belief that fuelled him – and us – in our early 90s charge for glory seems to be no more. What we see these days is a Kevin with doubts.

[NG32]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby c*** isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A c***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Pray for MOJO.

[merlin]

Personally I blame Phil Neville for costing us the league.

 

If he hadn't crippled Gillespie at OT I'm 100% convinced that we would have gathered at least naother 6 points that season

 

This is actually a very good point - Gillespie was never the same after that injury and his loss was crucial.

However, my pinpoint of when the title was blown was the March game with Man U at SJP ; we totally out-played them for most of the game and failed to convert any chances...as the game went on it was obvious that the momentum was slipping away and they went from being a shell-shocked side to one which suddenly gained belief that they could get something from the game and, of course, the arch-villain

Cantona did the damage..

 

Had we scored in the first half I reckon we would have won by 2 clear goals and their heads would have dropped for the rest of the season.

 

They suddenly began to believe they could do it, and we started to believe we might blow it, which is what happened. The result at Blackburn especially, was a sign of nerves creeping in - both on AND off the field..

[bowlingcrofty]

too many keegan lovers on this site for christ sake wake up he cost us the league through his tactical ineptness, his childish spoilt brat behaviour has seen him jump ship from us twice and also he has never seen a job out in his life, he disappears into the ground never to be seen again. Other managers who are sacked/resign are still seen around football this cry baby cunt isnt. And to top it off he is trying to take a huge amount of money from the club that he supposedly loves at a time when we can ill afford it and it could seriously jeopardise our promotion campaign

 

WAKE UP Keegan is a grade A cunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What a clown.

 

Best attacking team in that season. Second best defensive record.

 

What shit tactics.

[Robster]

No news from the panel yet then. Looks like it is going to be weeks rather than days before we find out 

[Cronky]

As you get older and wiser, you learn to be more careful about who you fall in love with. There are glamorous people who promise the earth but are in reality selfish. They end up leaving and hurting you. There are others less attractive who end up delivering the goods. You can carry on not learning the lesson, parading your bleeding heart like it's a badge of honour and end up like a battered wife, or you can build a real relationship. That takes time and patience, of course.

 

Caulkin's articles are like a Chinese meal. Superficially good but lacking substance.

 

Football isn't only about dreaming, it's about winning. Keegan has won nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien.

 

 

 

He's a shrewd journalist in that he realises that you can win just as many readers by writing what people want to hear as you can by writing a load of controversial, complaint inspiring nonsense like the majority of journalists do.

 

That article is just that, what a lot of people want to hear.

Or what some spoilt numpties don't like to hear...

 

The last sentence of bobyule wasn't there when I first replied. What a load of nonsense. Reducing Keegan's managerial credentials on a lack of trophies is so ignorant that you hardly can take it serious.

 

Anyway. Football isn't about winning, it's about how you play. © Johan Cruijff

 

I'd agree the last sentence of bobyule's post isn't right at all.

 

Well taking a look at the records, I see that Cruyff won 24 trophies as a player, and 11 as a manager. You don't get a haul like that if winning isn't important to you.

 

Winning shouldn't be the only thing, but it is important. Surely.

 

There's a difference between being a good manager and being a winner. A winner has a bit of steel which takes them through the inevitably dodgy times when things aren't going well and everyone's saying how crap you are. It also helps if you have good ideas and good judgement that you feel you can rely on. That way when you're under pressure you still think clearly.

 

For me, Keegan fails on both counts.

 

Don't agree with you there bob. I think Keegan always had a very clear vision of what he wanted and to his credit he never wavered from it in that for him football had to be about entertainment. He isn't flawless by any means but he was never fuzzy on that one.

 

Well fair point, but the entertainment at all costs is a bit of a cop-out, because no-one likes losing. When Keegan had his head in his hands when Liverpool beat us 4-3, he wasn't thinking, what an entertaining game. He was hurting.

 

I guess you could describe the commitment to attacking football at all times, and the neglect of defence, a 'clear vision'. But there are times when the brave decision is to batten down the hatches and admit that victory is the most important. I don't know if you saw the 'Time of Our Lives' programme with Ginola, Bez and Howey, but they oozed frustration at the team's inability to finish the job. Charging forward at all times can be like a refusal to face up to the situation you're really in. You can say afterwards, 'We may have lost but we had a good go', but it's like you're denying how important winning really is to you.

 

I've said this before, but the game that really cost us was Blackburn away, about a month before the end of the season, and it really epitomised what was lacking in Keegan's approach. If you remember, we went 1-0 up with 10 minutes to go, and all of a sudden we were back in pole position in the race with Man U. (If we'd won, we'd have gone into the final home match only needing a win to make sure of the title)

 

What happened though was the most awesome collective nervous breakdown. We were absolutely terrible, needing a tactical decision but not getting one. We needed to defend, but we didn't have the mentality or the nous to do that. We were also too nervous to attack, and ended up conceding two soft goals.

 

I guess that the failure to decide to defend, or to prepare any kind of defensive strategy on Keegan's part, wasn't a sign of strength. It was weakness. Or a lack of brains.

was it weakness or lack of brains that lead alex ferguson to blow a real 12point lead over arsenal  2 seasons later ?

Was it weakness or lack of brains when Ottmar OMG Hitzfeld blew a 1-0 lead in a European Cup Final in injury time?

 

I can't remember what happened with Fergie and Arsenal, but I doubt if it was a lack of nerve. You don't win 40 odd trophies without knowing how to close things out.

 

With Bayern, I'd say it was bad luck. They were the better side and should have won. That kind of thing can happen in football.

 

I can't see the relevance here. Yes, it is possible to lose a lead for reasons other than bottling. That doesn't in itself invalidate my opinion on Keegan in 1996.

so when newcastle lose a 12 point lead it's lack of nerve, when man utd do it must be something else ?

 

It doesn't fit into his world view so it has to be ignored. Others have bad luck with Keegan it is lack of ability.

 

Instead of judging the actual achievements under the circumstances and in this kind of style looking for the flaws is a bit simplistic and unfair if you ask me, espercially when persisting on those stupid myths of the 12 point lead and the poor defensive record. I am not sure or rather seriously doubt that any other manager would have been able to achieve the same with Newcastle in these years.

 

A more pertinent question is why Ferguson and Hitzfeld have won so many major trophies and Keegan hasn't won any. I'd say that was more than luck.